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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    An excellent and sound analysis and undoubtedly in close alignment with truth even if he did somehow succumb to her sexual advances on June 4. Sex itself is a primal motivator in its own right and while Travis' hard-won and bitter insight would have been a powerful attenuator in Travis to those motivations towards Arias, its influence cannot be completely disregarded.

    I would challenge your analysis in one regard, and that is the absence of evidence of intimacy in the June 4 photos. That was never a necessary element in their relations, regardless of Travis' likely early and naive beliefs. Intimacy + Arias = Oxymoron.

    Steve, I spent the time to write all that as context for June 4th. I'm not going to hunt and gather the text and call record to post yet again, but the FULL record makes clear he'd broken the pattern of anger-guilt-apology. He didn't apologize. There's no evidence he felt guilty and no reason to think he did. I don't think he was vulnerable to her on that score on June 4th.

    IMO it's plenty obvious from plenty of sources that she didn't feel confident he'd allow her in the door when she showed up, unannounced. I think that may well be why she stole and brought a gun- that she anticipated she might have to use force from the get-go.

    He didn't know she was coming. He didn't wait up for her. They didn't sit and watch videos together then skip up the stairs to snuggle up and go to sleep together. The evidence is actually pretty clear on those points too.

    (breaking this up, next post)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Steve, I spent the time to write all that as context for June 4th. I'm not going to hunt and gather the text and call record to post yet again, but the FULL record makes clear he'd broken the pattern of anger-guilt-apology. He didn't apologize. There's no evidence he felt guilty and no reason to think he did. I don't think he was vulnerable to her on that score on June 4th.

    IMO it's plenty obvious from plenty of sources that she didn't feel confident he'd allow her in the door when she showed up, unannounced. I think that may well be why she stole and brought a gun- that she anticipated she might have to use force from the get-go.

    He didn't know she was coming. He didn't wait up for her. They didn't sit and watch videos together then skip up the stairs to snuggle up and go to sleep together. The evidence is actually pretty clear on those points too.

    (breaking this up, next post)
    I never thought he knew she was coming. I've always assumed, for some reason, that the element of surprise was an integral part of her plan from the beginning, even though I also assume she was confident in her ability to manipulate him once in his physical presence.

    I believe she wanted to be 'intimate' with him (cough) that day because she wanted to be sure she was the last one. That was her way of owning Travis for all time in her mind, if you will, and thus was an integral part of the plan.

    I think manipulation by guilt is a strong possibility, but regardless, manipulation it was, and 'it' succeeded, whatever the mechanism, as was reflected by the physical evidence.

    There's also the fact that planting the pictures for any other reason, for any reason at all, directly contradicts her desire not to be seen anywhere near him that day, or to think they appeared by accident through memory card swapping and just happened to fit falsely yet perfectly into what actually happened that day is just a rabbit hole.
    Last edited by Steve44; 05-10-2016 at 10:41 PM.
    All of my posts are my opinion only, and reflect my point of view, and not necessarily objective truth.

  3. #18
    We don't know when she surprised him in his own house. Even if one accepts the photos were taken that day and that the timestamps on the photos are accurate, there is no way of knowing what happened before approximately 1pm on June 4.

    What makes no psychological or logical sense to me, given what I laid out above, is that Travis would have felt anything other than fear when she did surprise him. He thought she was 1,000 miles away and that he'd regained control over his life. He had expressed fear that she might kill him, and said he was scared of her. He's been told by every friend he'd confided in about her that she was mentally ill, "sick," "scary." And there she was.


    Do I think he was "raped"' in some stereotypical way, as in she pointed the gun at him and forced him to have sex? No. But I think if they did have sex it was coerced. As in, she made it clear she wanted to have sex with him and he was AFRAID not to. He'd witnessed first hand, repeatedly, how unbalanced she became at the slightest rejection by him, and IMO he wasn't going to take the chance, because he was exceedingly aware she was in fact, sick, not to be trusted, a liar to the core, not who she said she was, someone who he knew had never acted out of love towards him, but out of hate, and who used sex for her own purposes that had nothing to do with him.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
    It's Taco Tuesday


    Attachment 94239
    Wow --that looks super delicious!

    Sometimes I feel like I don't even need to eat; I just need to see what you're eating and that's satiation enough for me!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Steve, I spent the time to write all that as context for June 4th. I'm not going to hunt and gather the text and call record to post yet again, but the FULL record makes clear he'd broken the pattern of anger-guilt-apology. He didn't apologize. There's no evidence he felt guilty and no reason to think he did. I don't think he was vulnerable to her on that score on June 4th.

    IMO it's plenty obvious from plenty of sources that she didn't feel confident he'd allow her in the door when she showed up, unannounced. I think that may well be why she stole and brought a gun- that she anticipated she might have to use force from the get-go.

    He didn't know she was coming. He didn't wait up for her. They didn't sit and watch videos together then skip up the stairs to snuggle up and go to sleep together. The evidence is actually pretty clear on those points too.

    (breaking this up, next post)
    I have no doubt he broke the pattern, but whether or not he could be reeled back in is the question we should be asking. I maintain that his guilt was at too deep a level to excise completely in the time given.

    He may have broken the pattern, but the very nature of patterns of behavior are to persist in spite of repeated efforts to change them. Momentary success is far more common than permanent change, so I think she still had a few tricks up her sleeve to invoke them into action regarding Travis.
    All of my posts are my opinion only, and reflect my point of view, and not necessarily objective truth.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    I never thought he knew she was coming. I've always assumed, for some reason, that the element of surprise was an integral part of her plan from the beginning, even though I also assume she was confident in her ability to manipulate him once in his physical presence.

    I believe she wanted to be 'intimate' with him (cough) that day because she wanted to be sure she was the last one. That was her way of owning Travis for all time in her mind, if you will, and thus was an integral part of the plan.

    I think manipulation by guilt is a strong possibility, but regardless, manipulation it was, and 'it' succeeded, whatever the mechanism, as was reflected by the physical evidence.

    There's also the fact that planting the pictures for any other reason, for any reason at all, directly contradicts her desire not be seen anywhere near him that day, or to think they appeared by accident through memory card swapping and just happened to fit falsely yet perfectly into what actually happened that day is just a rabbit hole.
    I think her plan, if she didn't have to go with force at gunpoint, was to keep him off balance at every turn. For example, if she was actually in the house between 2-5ish and she actually brought photo CD's, I think she scratched them intentionally. Gaslighting. Here ---those CD's I promised you (Travis- maybe this will be OK), well damn, maybe you can't bring them up because they somehow got scratched? (Travis- WTF).

    (Maybe even payback for the fight when she'd destroyed one of his PD CD's and he'd had the gall to express irritation about that)....

    You asked why I thought what I do, and I've replied. It's nothing personal, but I'm not going down any more rabbit holes, nor getting on another hampster wheel discussion about June 4 or any particulars about that day. Like I said, I think we all bring our own stuff to this table, and I am well and truly done with the rich banquet we've had here for years discussing that day.
    Last edited by Hope4More; 05-10-2016 at 10:54 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    I think her plan, if she didn't have to go with force at gunpoint, was to keep him off balance at every turn. For example, if she was actually in the house between 2-5ish and she actually brought photo CD's, I think she scratched them intentionally. Gaslighting. Here ---those CD's I promised you (maybe this will be OK), well damn, maybe you can't bring them up because they somehow got scratched? (Payback for the fight when she'd destroyed one of his PD CD's and he'd had the gall to express irritation about that)....

    You asked why I thought what I do, and I've replied. It's nothing personal, but I'm not going down any more rabbit holes, nor getting on another hampster wheel discussion about June 4 or any particulars about that day. Like I said, I think we all bring our own stuff to this table, and I am well and truly done with the rich banquet we've had here for years discussing that day.
    I appreciate your effort and I agree none of us can know the truth of the matter beyond all doubt, the best we can do is satisfy ourselves with the theory that fits best for each of us, and enjoy in the sharing of ideas about a bizarre subject that has or held our interest. I agree that past a certain point it's spinning wheels and no movement forward becomes frustrating, but, thanks for your thoughts, they are deep and insightful, and I appreciate you sharing them.
    All of my posts are my opinion only, and reflect my point of view, and not necessarily objective truth.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    I appreciate your effort and I agree none of us can know the truth of the matter beyond all doubt, the best we can do is satisfy ourselves with the theory that fits best for each of us, and enjoy in the sharing of ideas about a bizarre subject that has or held our interest. I agree that past a certain point it's spinning wheels and no movement forward becomes frustrating, but, thanks for your thoughts, they are deep and insightful, and I appreciate you sharing them.

    Your own insights and always thoughtful opinions and comments warranted the time spent

  9. #24
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    Hope-

    There are plenty of working theories as to why #POS murdered Travis. Among those working theories are:

    Mimi was going to Cancun, not her (#POS)
    Travis rejected her
    Travis was going to expose all her deviousness to their mutual friends and her family
    She wanted the last word (#Winning!)

    Do you think it's also possible/probable/likely that #She wanted Travis to find himself on the other side of the pearly gates after #She murdered him? Not just him losing his Temple-recommend (which she knew was so important to him), but seen as a sinner after death in God's eye, and thus locked out of Heaven?

    #2DESCEND
    @JodiAnnArias: They took my case and they took my cash, now I'm in Perryville with a terrible rash. #JodiArias

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    Not more available, just more believable.

    Let's take as an example a cold-hearted woman who just wants to get rid of her husband. She kills him in cold blood and then claims she just snapped after years of abuse, both physical and emotional, that her husband constantly and openly cheated on her and tried to pull her into an open marriage, and she suspected he was sexually abusing his children. None of which is remotely true.

    Now take that same cold heart and transplant it into a man who just wants to get rid of his wife. He again kills her in cold blood and then claims again that he just snapped, that she openly cheated on him for years, emotionally abused him, and was a terrible, negligent mother. None of which is remotely true.

    Obviously the ability to produce supporting evidence (even manufactured evidence) in each case will carry the most weight, but which would be taken as more credible at face value?

    The "appearance of mechanisms to those who desire to see them," is exactly from where they draw their reality. They are social assumptions based on traditional but increasingly anachronistic social roles of dominance and submission across genders.

    I'm not saying it's any longer a viable defense, it's increasingly less so with a more aware society and increasingly accurate investigative forensics, but there's still an advantage to a female claiming victimhood at the hands of a man as a mitigator for what is really psychopathic behavior.
    Yes!

    And that is how I see it, too. Even when convicted as charged, the female tends to have more sympathetic followers.

    Shayna Hubers got 40 years for the first degree murder of Ryan Poston. She could have and should have received more than 40 as her crime was horrific, vengeful, and she had absolutely no remorse. But she faked some and claimed he had been abusive. Judge didn't accept her tale that they were "a couple" who had co-habitated, which is what would have been required for a domestic abuse consideration in that jurisdiction but the jury recommended 40 years and even though not bound by that, the judge caved.

    Had Ryan killed Shayna under similar circumstances, there is not a doubt in my mind that the sentence would have been far more harsh.

    It is what it is, folks. The climate has changed for the better in recent years but abuse is still a card best played by the female. Men are more easily seen as big and strong while women--even the physically strong ones--are often viewed as petite, and when a woman manages to overtake a male who more often than not outweighs her by a significant amount, it is hard for some citizens to fathom.


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    I have no doubt he broke the pattern, but whether or not he could be reeled back in is the question we should be asking. I maintain that his guilt was at too deep a level to excise completely in the time given.

    He may have broken the pattern, but the very nature of patterns of behavior are to persist in spite of repeated efforts to change them.Momentary success is far more common than permanent change, so I think she still had a few tricks up her sleeve to invoke them into action regarding Travis.
    Very true
    I think he thought he could lessen contact, she moved. Occasional phone sex, but I do not think he ever planned to travel to see her. But after the May 26 fight they did speak for an hour. (The day after the fight he told Taylor that Jodi was "harmless"). And when she showed up at his home the pattern resumes. Bait taken, reeled in. It's very difficult to break up with these highly manipulative individuals. She only needed him to repeat the pattern one more time so she could murder him and start prepping Ryan into believing she's his dream girl
    Last edited by TexMex; 05-11-2016 at 12:29 AM.

    Corpus Christi, Texas

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve44 View Post
    I never thought he knew she was coming. I've always assumed, for some reason, that the element of surprise was an integral part of her plan from the beginning, even though I also assume she was confident in her ability to manipulate him once in his physical presence.

    I believe she wanted to be 'intimate' with him (cough) that day because she wanted to be sure she was the last one. That was her way of owning Travis for all time in her mind, if you will, and thus was an integral part of the plan.

    I think manipulation by guilt is a strong possibility, but regardless, manipulation it was, and 'it' succeeded, whatever the mechanism, as was reflected by the physical evidence.

    There's also the fact that planting the pictures for any other reason, for any reason at all, directly contradicts her desire not to be seen anywhere near him that day, or to think they appeared by accident through memory card swapping and just happened to fit falsely yet perfectly into what actually happened that day is just a rabbit hole.
    BBM. Interesting, never thought of it that way before... like a dog marking it's territory, or a black widow spider. Also, eternally damning him in the Mormon church, as he'd have no opportunity to repent.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
    Very true
    I think he thought he could lessen contact, she moved. Occasional phone sex, but I do not think he ever planned to travel to see her. But after the May 26 fight they did speak for an hour. And when she showed up at his home the pattern resumes. Bait taken, reeled in. It's very difficult to break up with these highly manipulative individuals. She only needed him to repeat the pattern one more time so she could murder him and start prepping Ryan into believing she's his dream girl
    And for what it's worth, I've had real breakups intending to never even think a person's name again - but there is ALL kinds of sex...

    Gratitude sex
    Pity sex
    GetOutOfHereAlready sex
    Intimate sex
    ForOldTimesSake sex
    Goodbye sex...

    The list goes on and on. I'm not the first person who has had sex with an ex for reasons other than I genuinely wanted to. Maybe he thought it was the best way to get her to leave, play it cool and act like everything is fine. Heck, he could have been planning on getting a restraining order during their liaison that day, for all we know.

    His face in the shower absolutely says to me "Can you please leave and all this be over, already!"

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    Everything is my opinion, unless I tell you it's not.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by EquallyDivided View Post
    And for what it's worth, I've had real breakups intending to never even think a person's name again - but there is ALL kinds of sex...

    Gratitude sex
    Pity sex
    GetOutOfHereAlready sex
    Intimate sex
    ForOldTimesSake sex
    Goodbye sex...

    The list goes on and on. I'm not the first person who has had sex with an ex for reasons other than I genuinely wanted to. Maybe he thought it was the best way to get her to leave, play it cool and act like everything is fine. Heck, he could have been planning on getting a restraining order during their liaison that day, for all we know.

    His face in the shower absolutely says to me "Can you please leave and all this be over, already!"

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    Or...I'm about to leave for a week in Cancun with a girl who just kicked me into the Friend Zone...won't be getting any and oops:
    Here's Jodi with the KY wanting to try out my new camera sex!

    I have no doubt that he was ready for her to leave by about 2pm, right after whatever kind of sex they had..
    Last edited by TexMex; 05-11-2016 at 12:59 AM.

    Corpus Christi, Texas

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
    Or...I'm about to leave for a week in Cancun with a girl who just kicked me into the Friend Zone...won't be getting any and oops:
    Here's Jodi with the KY wanting to try out my new camera sex!

    I have no doubt that he was ready for her to leave by about 2pm, right after whatever kind of sex they had..
    Yet there was no sign of either of them during the hours of 3-4pm when Zach was there... other than he recalls a slick banister.

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