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  1. #1
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    Bosma Murder Trial 05.20.16 - Day 53

    This is the Bosma murder trial daily discussion thread. The trial daily discussion thread is for discussion of trial evidence/testimony only, not for general discussion, posts about past threads, other members, etc. Off-topic posts will be removed.

    Note: Only testimony that is published through MSM reporting (articles and tweets) is allowed. Keep discussion focused on testimony as it becomes public knowledge and remember to link up to MSM reporting of same.

    Any testimony that might remain under Publication Ban, and any courtroom discussion that takes place when the jury is not present, is strictly off-limits. Posts that violate a Publication Ban, or discussion when the jury is absent, will be removed.


    At all times, keep in mind Websleuths TOS, so affectionately referred to as The Rules.

    There will be ZERO TOLERANCE for snarky or disrespectful posts and/or subtle digs at other members. Mods will not be PMing you with explanations, you will find your post has disappeared, or that you can no longer post.

    There is to be NO name calling or name variations, not even of the accused.

    There is to be no BICKERING between members. A difference of opinion is NOT a TOS violation. Some will think one or both of the accused are guilty, some will think one or both are not guilty, and some will be on the fence. All of that is okay and should NOT BE ATTACKED. If you disagree, that's fine, move past the post. If a post is offensive, alert it and let the Mods review it. If you respond to the post, both the offensive post AND yours will be removed and may result in other consequences.

    Other reminders for reference as we have respectful discussion in each of the daily trial discussion threads:

    Abuse of the WS Alert feature can have consequences including timeout or worse. Such abuse includes, but is not limited to:

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    Once you have alerted on a post, please move on without discussing it, and don't question the decisions of our Administrators, Moderators or Owners, and don't expect personalized responses with explanations about a particular decision.


    The principle of “innocent until proven guilty” is for the court room … it is not required that Websleuths members adhere to that principle. Members are allowed to discuss, speculate, theorize, and judge according to opinions they develop from following the specifics of the case.

    If you have any questions, PM a Mod and we will be happy to assist you. The main Mods/Admin for this trial will be Bessie, Coldpizza, and sillybilly.


  2. #2
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    **If you would like to post tweets while court is in session, please read this thread first:
    Bosma Murder Trial Twitter Roll Call

    Reporters to follow on Twitter:

    Jacques Gallant, Toronto Star
    Adam Carter, CBC Hamilton
    Mark Carcasole, Global Toronto
    Molly Hayes, The Hamilton Spectator
    Peter Ackman, CTV National News
    Nicole Martin, CHCH TV
    Susan Clairmont, The Hamilton Spectator
    Shannon Martin, CBC Toronto News
    Colin Butler CBC Toronto News
    Lisa Hepfner CHCH News Reporter

    General MSM Tweets

    Also, check here for real time updates.

    http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/
    PODCAST ROW

    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK
    __________________________________
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Tim Bosma trial: 5th day of cross-examination for Mark Smich

    CBC News Posted: May 20 2016




    Mark Smich returns to the witness box for a fifth day of cross-examination in a Hamilton courtroom today, as the trial of the two men accused of killing Tim Bosma continues.

    On Thursday, the lawyer for accused murderer Dellen Millard told the jury what he believes happened the night the Bosma died after taking two men on a test drive of a pickup. He said that Smich pulled the trigger, that Smich was the killer.

    LIVE BLOG

    LIVE BLOG MOBILE

  5. #5
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    Court in session. The jury is being recalled.
    by Adam Carter 10:02 AM

    Sachak says there are a couple of areas he forgot to question Smich about and he wants to cover them off.
    by Adam Carter 10:04 AM

  6. #6
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    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 5m5 minutes ago
    #Bosma judge on his way in. Smich set for day 5 of cross by Millard lawyer Nadir Sachak. Story 6pm @CHCHNews & tweeting here what jury hears

    Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 15s16 seconds ago
    Jury in. Mark Smich is back on the stand. Should be Nadir Sachak's last day of cross exam. Day 5. #Bosma

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jug Up View Post
    Hmmmm. Maybe even "3 or 4 minutes."

    In a roundabout way, I said this exact thing yesterday about the timestamps. There is a reason that you can manually change the time on almost any camera.

    If the Super Sucker video is three hours out, is it not conceivable that it could be three hours and five minutes out? Or, even if it wasn't three hours out, is it not VERY possible it could be five minutes out from my watch or yours?

    I am not suggesting the truck in the 9:05 and 9:15 videos is TB's, but I don't think you can definitively say yes or no either way because of the time stamp on the SS video.

    There is a very real possibility that the "official" times aren't official and the possibility does exist that the truck(s) went by at, say, 9:10, 9:20 and 9:25.

    In other words, saying the SS video what 100% correct to the minute, and lined up exactly to the cell phone pings and call from the Bate phone at 9:05, is speculative and, some would say, even unlikely.

    Does this make sense at all? LOL
    I think that's why Sachak said "never mind the times" yesterday. There are credible scenarios that involve the SS video adjustment being anywhere from 3 minutes to 10 minutes off, and any of those would work better than the 3 hours off exactly with the rest of the facts. I think that was his point, but through tweets at least I think it was argued badly. I think he should have started with the fact that it took 19 minutes from Super Sucker to the Bosma driveway if you accepted 3 hours off exactly, and that Smich did not appear (at least via Twitter) to explain that gap sufficiently. One he established that there appeared to be 'something' wrong with the timeline that way, he could then argue the additional sightings of Tim's truck as probable. Instead he seems to have tried to impeach MS by insisting that the truck HAD to be Tim's, which is clearly not either true or his strongest point.

  8. #8
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    Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
    "A couple of areas I forgot to question you about...," begins Sachak. Showing aerial map of field where Yukon was parked near #Bosma home.

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
    Seeing the overheard photo of the intersection where Smich indicated the Yukon was parked that night, at Trinity and Book Rds. #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
    Smich has said it was parked in a laneway but still close to the yard. Sachak suggests it was parked further back in the field. #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    Smich disagrees. Sachak asks if he's sure. He says he's "certain." #Bosma

    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
    Sachak says there are a couple areas he forgot to ask Smich about. Intersection of Book & Trinity Rds on court screens

    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
    That's where Millard's Yukon was parked when they went to the test drive. Sachak says it was parked deeper into the field. Smich says no

    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
    The intersection is a close walk to the Bosma house. Smich insists the Yukon was parked close & facing road.

  9. #9
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    Sachak starts by going to the map showing where Smich says Millard parked his Yukon near the Bosma home. Sachak says Millard parked the Yukon farther into a field than Smich indicated. Smich says no.
    by Adam Carter 10:05 AM

    Sachak now showing a photo of a lighter that says "Toronto Hemp Company." "Do you recognize that lighter?" Sachak asks. "No sir I do not," Smich says. Sachak says Smich dropped that lighter "in a state of panic" in the field. Smich says no, it's not.
    by Adam Carter 10:06 AM

    Sachak showing a photo of the field. There's an orange cone showing where the lighter was found.
    by Adam Carter 10:08 AM

    Sachak says Smich dropped the lighter there. "So sir," Smich says.
    by Adam Carter 10:08 AM

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellkat2 View Post
    In my opinion a police officer would be all over the details of the carpet not matching the paint...so to speak.
    Since when does carpet and interior need to match the paint? All of my vehicles are very different from the paint.


  11. #11
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    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    Seeing a photo of a lighter -- says Toronto Hemp Company on it -- that was seized in that field. #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    Sachak asks if he recognizes it. Smich says no. Sachak suggests he dropped it there in his state of panic. "No sir," he says. #Bosma

    Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
    Seeing photo of cigarette lighter found in field. Sachak suggests it is Smich's. Smich says no. #Bosma

    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
    Sachak says that's the lighter Smich dropped when he panicked in the field. Now looking at orange cone in grassy field.

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    Seeing another photo now, an orange cone is partially visible in a grassy field. Smich says he sees it. #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    This is where the lighter was found, Sachak says. #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    "I'm going to suggest at some point on May 6 either when you first got out to go to the #Bosma residence, or layer on when you came back...

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    "...to follow the truck, you dropped it there." Smich disagrees. #Bosma

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie M View Post
    I will now show the most correct timeline (as crown presented in court) with the two extra truck sightings removed because they simply can not Be the Bosma truck ..... maybe a neighbor with a similar truck picking up his mail at Trinity & Book Rd or something ....we dont know for sure

    8:46pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
    9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
    9:20pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

    Now that leaves 34 minutes which seems like a long time but here is how I would rationalize it ( I wish Smitch would give us these details)

    @8:46 Yukon starts down Trinity road .... they know it is the road Bosma house will be on .... likely not driving fast and checking the number posts in front of each house .... they obviously would first drive by Bosma's @8:51.... go a little farther south scouting for places to park the Yukon ..... turned around and headed north and likely glanced over at Bosma house again @8:53 ..... continued north and parked in the hayfield at Book Rd @8:57 ...... then walked down to Bosma house to be in the driveway @9:05 ...... talk with Bosma for couple minutes in driveway and leave @9:09 .... slow swervy drive north on Trinity as Dell pretends to get a text message from invisible coffee friends in Yukon ..... reach Book rd @9:12 .... drop Smitch off , get turned around on Book rd @9:15 ..... turn north on Trinity and drive past Super Sucker @9:20

    It's just that simple. Thanks.
    We know two things with good certainty.
    1. They started walking up the driveway at about 9:05. Cell network time must be reliable
    2. The whole thing took 34 minutes (8:46-9:20) between Yukon driving on Tiniity down and then up. We don't know absolute time @ super sucker but we know relative times.

    Given that they have to find the house, find where to park, walk, talk, see the truck, transfer, turn. 34 minutes is not all that much. If we take out the 10 minutes drive claimed by Sachak (again, we can use relative times), then they'd have only 24 minutes to do all that. I don't buy it. And if we consider Sachak, DM et al. opus magnum about 403, shooting, stopping at the shoulder, driving around... Then I'm not just not buying it, I'm walking away laughing.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEmory View Post
    Wow. I can't tell if this was genius or stupid.

    Possibly just a shot at DM. "Even your dog hated you."
    Smich's testifying against his co-accused is nothing but a shot a DM. I agree...right down to even the dog hated you.

  14. #14
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    "Mr. Millard and you just before you walked over to the Bosma house, arked the GMC Yukon further down in the field, further south," Sachak says.
    by Adam Carter 10:09 AM

    Smich says no. "It was close to the road where I said before."
    by Adam Carter 10:09 AM

    Sachak says after Bosma was shot, Millard came down Trinity Road South, drove into the field "... you got out of the Bosma truck, and both trucks left the sandy driveway, and then made a left turn on Book Road going west." Smich again says no.
    by Adam Carter 10:11 AM

  15. #15
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    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    Going back to that overhead view again. Sachak says he suggests Mr Millard and he, just before they walked over to the #Bosma house...

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
    ...parked further into the field. Smich says again "no sir, it was parked closer to the road like I said before." #Bosma

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
    Sachak points to a sandy patch in bottom of screen. Says this is where the truck was parked. Smich says "no sir, not correct at all." #Bosma

    Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 50s50 seconds ago
    Since Smich doesn't admit the lighter is his, those photos will not be entered as exhibits. Can't share @CHCHNews

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
    Sachak says when Mr #Bosma was shot, Mr Millard came down Trinity Rd, turned east on Book Rd, drove the truck into the field...

    Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
    Sachak pointing to screen to show route Millard drove truck after #Bosma killed. South on Trinity, east onto Book Road and into field.

    molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
    And Smich got out, got into Yukon, and then both drove out and turned left onto Book Rd and back down Trinity. Smich says no. #Bosma

    Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
    Millard parked far into field so nobody could see his license plate, says Sachak. Smich disagrees. #Bosma

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