GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

A dad on trial for the murder of his six-year-old daughter told police to *advertiser censored** off when they quizzed him over her death, a court heard.


Little Ellie Butler died in hospital on October 28 2013 after medics found her lying on her bedroom floor with "catastrophic injuries".


Her parents, Ben Butler and Jennie Gray, called 999 in a panic claiming she had fallen off a stool.


But when Butler, 36, was questioned by cops over her devastating head injuries, he became "hostile" and "aggressive", a court heard, claiming he had previously been a victim of a "miscarriage of justice".

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-butler-murder-trial-stay-7830946

A man accused of murdering his six-year-old daughter in a fit of rage has described freezing in shock the moment he found her collapsed on the floor of her bedroom, and expressed regret for not phoning an ambulance until some hours later.


“I couldn’t move, I couldn’t breathe properly,” Ben Butler told a jury at the Old Bailey. “I didn’t help the way I should have helped. I tried to help, I tried to shake her. She didn’t wake, she didn’t respond to what I did. I tried to breathe in her mouth, it didn’t work. It just took the wind of my sails. I still don’t know why I didn’t do more.”


Butler, 36, who denies killing his daughter Ellie, said he should have called an ambulance when he could not revive her, but he collapsed on the floor himself.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/17/muder-accused-ben-butler-shock-daughters-death-court



The prosecution claims Ellie died after suffering skull fractures from being thrown against a wall or hit with a heavy blunt weapon.


The court has heard he was previously convicted for shaking Ellie as a baby, although this was later quashed on appeal.


The couple then won a High Court judgement to have Ellie returned to their care in 2012.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36357835

https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK

Thread #1

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Gigi Goodfield
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lisa o'carroll
lisa o'carroll‏ @lisaocarroll

Gray: when Post Mortem said she had "fractured scapula" I thought they were lying.
23 May 2016, 14:55:30

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please continue discussion of the trial here.

Am moving over my posts of what JG has said today- maybe LB wants to do the same?( I'll do it for you if you are busy now)

JG

".....has described three months of abusive texts to her as empty threats that were part of their “childish” rowing.....and that messages in which he called her a “****” or a “*****” meant nothing.

....She said he was never violent towards her or Ellie and the few times he had shoved her it was because she was “in his face”, and that texts in which she begged him not to kick her out or not to beat her up were just her being “*****y” or “dramatic”.

“When I’m in an argument with someone I can be very *****y and very sarcastic,” she told jurors .....

She said she felt hormonal after a botched abortion in January 2013 and texts in which she referred to him threatening to beat her were just “me being exaggerative”.

She said she was ashamed of the texts, telling the jury that the trial was about the death of Ellie, not their rows, which she described as childish......

Asked about one exchange in which she said Butler had kicked her in the genitals after he allegedly wanted her to mimic a *advertiser censored* scene, she responded: “All I can say is I have never been kicked by Ben Butler, let alone in the female regions.”

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much more at the link guys - I'm snipping to keep to 10%
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/23/ben-butler-trial-partner-jennie-gray-abusive-texts

Very interested to hear what our new posters ( obv our old ones too) think of what JG is saying, before I rant - LOL

Legally Bland said:

from your link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36357835

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Ms Gray, also 36, said the texts came across as "harsher than they were" and that his "bark is definitely worse than his bite".
She told jurors he used to threaten her but they were empty threats.
"He would say I'll maim you, I'll get you, and I would sit there in my room and say 'yeah of course you will treacle'."
She added: "I'm not afraid of Ben Butler. He does not scare me. I never felt like that. We were both very, very bad to each other. But I didn't feel threatened."

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BIB Anyone feeling sickened by her little flourishes?

UL Part of the calculated scam- part of a claim the threats were never face to face - just words at a distance.
ETA - Ok, let's see these text responses which say "course you will duckie", "whatevs", "talk to the hand" etc etc. Not seen any response like that from her in all the text exchanges.

Take a look at @lisaocarroll's Tweet: https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/734681822781669376?s=09

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Gah I join twitfix to get updates n I get a poxy link grr

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Shocking claims

as LegallyB mentioned - radiation!
here's the snippet
".....Ellie might not have died if her abnormalities had been diagnosed earlier or if she had not been maltreated as a baby in St Helier. She claimed the hospital had overdosed the baby with an adult dose of radiation during tests and that it had caused injury to her baby during her birth"

Cue Dr. Janice Orphoven ? ( ie. the final Def medical expert/gun for hire has made this suggestion perhaps and will testify to it later? Where else have they got this possibility from?)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/23/ben-butler-trial-partner-jennie-gray-abusive-texts

cottonweaver said:

BIB Anyone feeling sickened by her little flourishes?

UL Part of the calculated scam- part of a claim the threats were never face to face - just words at a distance.
ETA - Ok, let's see these text responses which say "course you will duckie", "whatevs", "talk to the hand" etc etc. Not seen any response like that from her in all the text exchanges.

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But nevertheless. A threat to which she could of got BB arrested for.

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Gigi-G said:

Take a look at @lisaocarroll's Tweet: https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/734681822781669376?s=09

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https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/734681822781669376?s=09
"Jennie Gray breaks down in court describing day she hd to leave baby Ellie Butler with foster carer."

Gigi, do you believe she rehearsed that - break down ?
IMO It sounds rather like BB's "loss of control" , at the start of his testimony and his speedy ability to get back in the dock a few mins later.

She's playing up just like I thought she would. Just like BB. Oh poor poor me. No matter what happened to Ellie. Which tbh. If I was accused and I knew I was in the right and innocent I'd be standing there defending myself. Tears or no tears!


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cottonweaver said:

Shocking claims

as LB mentioned - radiation!
here's the snippet
".....Ellie might not have died if her abnormalities had been diagnosed earlier or if she had not been maltreated as a baby in St Helier. She claimed the hospital had overdosed the baby with an adult dose of radiation during tests and that it had caused injury to her baby during her birth"

Cue Dr. Janice Orphoven ? ( ie. the final Def medical expert/gun for hire has made this suggestion perhaps and will testify to it later? Where else have they got this possibility from?)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/23/ben-butler-trial-partner-jennie-gray-abusive-texts

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Well what would you do if you believe there was a malpractice issue?
I would Sue the bloody place! Did they? No.........
He was busy doing his legal studies in prison. She could of gotten hold of any number of Companies who do a no win no fee claim for compo.

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DMail account is slightly different, only different bit is

Asked if Butler had ever been violent, she said: "Never. There's no way I would ever have allowed that."
On the text messages, Gray said she was being "melodramatic and *****y", adding that she was "ashamed" of how she used to act.
....Asked about a text in which Gray tells Butler he has done all the "worst things a man can do to a woman", Gray said she was "exaggerating" and "just hurting".
She added: "I have never been beaten by Ben Butler. Yes, we had altercations when I got in his face ... The only thing I have been is berated, but not beaten."

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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...trial-hear-evidence-mother.html#ixzz49UOvzGTW
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

About the same realm as her claimed 'botched' abortion.
Thing is did she discharge herself cuz BB wanted her home as he had enough of the kids all day?
If not. Then if she had to go in again. (By they way. They do a D&C usually after most terminations or miscarriages)
Same again if she felt hard done by. Why not take it to a complaint?
I'm finding much of her evidence very hard to swallow.


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cottonweaver said:

DMail account is slightly different, only different bit is



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...trial-hear-evidence-mother.html#ixzz49UOvzGTW
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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Then why blood in the house of hers. Why bumps n lumps n bruises?
Talk about Coercive Abuse.

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OMG I need to JUMP UP N DOWN N PULL MY HAIR OUT.... Jury please please watch her body language! Her eyes. her mannerisms.

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It does rattle me tho. They've sat in the box all the time together. They could of hatched a nice lil matching plan. So they both get off with the minimum of sentences. And Ellie's for want of better words.... bloodied violent death. Is just a death?

No way! That poor love was bullied battered and bashed. By a brute of a dad. N a mom who put a man over her children

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A few more tweets in BBC correspondent's TL

This is the best Twitter feed - as it seems he is in court today and reporting all her twaddle

https://twitter.com/DannyShawBBC?lang=en-gb

Some posters can't see Twitter so will just quote a few from him, first is newest 14 minutes ago :

Jennie Gray, dressed in black, clutching hankie, describes "traumatic" birth of Ellie.Months earlier #Butler brought Teddy he'd had as child
.... says Ben #Butler saw Ellie every day. He was "completely devoted & in love with the fact he was a dad"
....says Ellie stayed with Ben #Butler overnight. "I could see how capable he was"
... says Ellie used to make catching sound in her sleep & went a "white porcelain colour" sometimes. #Butler
...says St Helier hospital made "many many mistakes" with Ellie. Went to different hospital & she recovered.
... says she & Ben #Butler prayed for Ellie to get better. "I'm a practicing Christian" she says.
.... Ben #Butler and I "burst into tears" when told Ellie was going to be ok.
...Jennie Gray says care process began in 2007 - it "broke my heart" - Ellie went to foster carer. "It was one of the worst days of my life"
...breaks down in tears and sobs in witness box as she describes Ellie being taken away by foster carer.
....says as she & Ben #Butler fought to get Ellie back "I tried to drink myself to death a few times"
.....says "we were happy, bonding well" after Ellie #Butler was returned to them in Nov 2012. Xmas was "good".
....says she's never seen Ben #Butler be violent to Ellie & wouldn't be defending him if she thought he was to blame for her death
....accuses police of trying to "get revenge" for 2007 case, when Ben #Butler was cleared on appeal of attacking Ellie
.....says police would never have arrested Ben #Butler within hours of Ellie's death if it had been another family
....wipes away tears as jury shown home DVDs of Ellie #Butler on her scooter, blowing bubbles & playing football with dad Ben Butler.

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Pass me the sick bucket please! uke:

inocchio: :cuckoo:

4 mins ago

Jennie Gray says she & Ben #Butler rowed but he "kept the family going" when she was depressed & turned to drink

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https://twitter.com/DannyShawBBC/status/734757887281668096?lang=en-gb

Right guys, go to go for a while, if anyone else fancies pasting up tweets etc....