Gut Feeling

I was thinking about this and trying to work some kind of poll, but there's too many variables, so a poll was impossible. I was curious to see what members first impressions are on certain cases. Only post if you care to reveal your opinions. I'll start.

Raven Abaroa--I think there's too much evidence showing motive.
Jennifer Wilbanks--I didn't think her fiance had anything to do with her disappearance
Mark Hacking--I knew something wasn't right with how his story was playing out.
Scott Peterson--everything coming out of his mouth seemed to be fake.
Daniel Horowitz--I don't think he had anything to do with his wife's murder. And he seems to sincerely be hurting for the loss of his wife (something I don't ever see from Raven)

Feel free to add your impressions of cases that you've heard about. These are just a few that I've kept tabs on.

Raven Abaroa - His written words before her murder, his actions and inactions day of murder, his actions after the murder, his lies regarding suicide, or that she died, etc. to people after the murder, his actions and inactions regarding Kaiden, his actions and reactions and inactions since Janet's and his unborn child's murder. His actions/reactions inactions in dealings with the Christiansen family. I knew from the first article on Janet Maria Christiansen Abaroa's Murder that Raven was involved, and had a sinking suspicion that they would find out she was Pregnant and eventually it will lead to an arrest on this case.

Scott Peterson - His words and body language after Laci Disappeared, his actions and inactions after Laci Disappeared. I knew from Day one media report that Scott Peterson had something to do with his murder and was "spot-on."

Mark Hacking - I knew from day one he had something to do with the murder by his words, actions and inactions, I knew that he had some sort of psychological problem from following the news reports. Luckily he had a wonderful, religious family that though stood behind him, got the truth from him.

Riley Fox Murder - Wasn't sure if Kevin Fox had anything to do with the Murder, but did think his words, actions, inactions were suspect, and were not sure if they were drug related, but have a feeling there is guilt there, not in the murder, but in the parenting skills, and in his personal skills, be it because of issues with alcohol or drugs the night of the murder. I realized the LE dropped the ball on the case, by not checking out other leads.

Daniel Horowitz - My gut reaction is that he did not do it, his actions and inactions immediately after the murder, his interviewed statements, the fact that he is a defense attorney, knowing that all eyes will be on him, yet, his grief is very apparent and real, something not seen by Scott Peterson - they were alligator tears, false sense of everything around him. I feel the same way about Raven Abaroa, alligator fake tears, false sense of grief, yet goes on with his life, as if Janet was never alive to begin with.

OJ Simpson - How this guy got off is beyond me. Icky, Icky, bad man! False sense of everything, high priced attorneys.

Michael Jackson - Guilty - got off on technicalities because he knew how to pick victims that are too afraid to come forward, too controversial, he knows how to pick his victims that would not look good in a court of law, that he could break. Funny, jurors after setting Michael Jackson free, says they believe he did it. Icky Icky ManBoy.

I will continue this later...have to run.

raven: ..as we began sleuthing this case, i didn't initially/immediatly think raven was the guilty party..

..however, as it began to unravel, discoveing previous infidelities...the embezzlement ( i am NOT a crook!) physically reading the vx posts...he put both other vehicles in the shop that particular night ?! -----seriously short of cash as they were..the raven blog and ravenstree...etc etc etc.....one thing plus another plus another plus another just began to add up, ( and not only could/can not be discounted as a few of raven's 'friends' showed up here, in fact i think they made it worse..) finding out ( for sure ) that janet was pregnant at TOD brought it home conclusively for me....raven's a player.....always has been/will be.......and i think is guilty of this crime solely to benefit HIS continuing lifestyle......

scott peterson: i wasn't 'following' the case intently.........but when i saw him with diane sawyer on GMA.........i KNEW it.......and then did begin to keep up to date......( 'she'd made peace with it'.......ummmmmm..no way)......he went from slime....to slimier.....to slimiest.........and is where he should be.

..lori hacking: KNEW it from the moment it happened........and then that was confirmed as he bought the new mattress the very morning he declared her missing........he had such an idiotic "alibi" and story, ..i'm thrilled that her family changed her headstone to her maiden name...

...o.j.........KNEW it then also.....from the moment i saw the 1st news that his "estranged wife" had been murdered........oj reached in ( was it chicago?) i wondered then--------how long has he been in chicago ???the car "chase" on the freeway was ridiculous------------he really deserves to be taken out by a super jealous acquaintance on the golf course, while "looking for the real killer", while said acquaintance is wearing leather gloves, that shrink to the point that they will not be identified as having EVER fit.......being ostracized by the vast majority of his former friends and country clubs is NOT good enough..........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to double jeopardy.....

..michael jackson: lucky for him to have ditched geragos.......or-------lucky for 'us' that the jackson jurors didn't get their jury duty papers earlier------and then served on the scott peterson case.......
..the 'boy' was guilty as sin, ( even the jurors now say so......how ridiculous is that ???? this was COURT -----not a 'panel' for the 'enquirer') ya' gotta be squeaky clean to go up against a child molester and his defense 'TEAM"........they weren't.....the prosecution couldn't /wasn't adequately prepared to seriously turn the tide.............so the 'plasticised white boy' walks.............INjustice...

..horowitz: haven't followed this intensely, but........what kind of murderer doesn't bring their OWN weapon along , and then has to use something from the victim's house ? that seems very odd.......

.he's in debt up to his eyeballs on a "villa" he himself claims he never wanted...........she's murdered in pj's ? and HE left early that a.m. while she WAS in pj's ? ( he says )( she'd be wandering about in pj's/nightie in front of ?? ok, him....and ???? ) he says the perp took a shower after.( wow, now there's a perp that was confident that no-one would be coming along soon)....

..saw him on nancy grace.........( as did many here on WS.........who 'wanted to give him a hug' ,'poor daniel'...........etc...) personally, i found it a bit TOO contrived.........or maybe ( per the above..........janet...laci....nicole....etc) i've become cynical. as of this moment..............follow the blood/follow the money/follow the statistics: i'm leaning very possible guilty.( i'm definitely NOT in the innocent camp...)

I wasn't sure where to go with Horowitz. I think that Peterson made me so suspicious of everyone that I couldn't give Daniel the benefit of the doubt. But now they know what happened there. Terrible situation!!

Even Greta remarked that she wasn't sure about Horowitz. But, she said something about learning that there is no prescribed way to grieve. Well, Raven, whatever it is that you have done as far as grieving, is NOT making any impression on anyone. The only other person who wasn't that upset about his wife's demise is now living in a new home!! :behindbar Think about it!!

I guess for me, Daniel Horowitz seemed genuine in his pain whereas Scott Peterson and Raven Abaroa don't. Daniel Horowitz's concern was for his slain wife but with Scott P & Raven A their concern is for themselves.

The overall feeling I got when watching Scott Peterson speaking was one of a bad actor reciting rehearsed lines but not having the emotional range to convey real feelings. I'm getting the same kind of reaction to Raven Abaroa, mostly from reading about what he has said and his statement about how he found Janet and the immediate aftermath. There's an inconsistent and shallow "feel" to Raven's statements as if he's reacting to what he thinks people are asking, and changing his story to accomodate what he believes he's being asked as if that will make his version more plausible. As an example first he said Janet was hurt and then he said she was already cold so alarm bells would have to ring there.

I can understand people being cynical, having been exposed to so many spouse & family anihilator stories we're bound to be suspicious when we hear of another case where someone is found dead or dying by their significant other, but I also believe there is a natural revulsion to contemplating that crimes like these are comitted by one spouse against another. Especially if the murdered spouse was pregnant, as in the cases of Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking & now Janet Abaroa.

What really rankles with crimes like these is that as Sharon Rocha howled at Scott Peterson in the court room "divorce is an option not murder", why on earth do people like Scott & Raven take the infinitely harder and evil route of murder when they could file for divorce and move on with their lives?

blaize

blaize said:

What really rankles with crimes like these is that as Sharon Rocha howled at Scott Peterson in the court room "divorce is an option not murder", why on earth do people like Scott & Raven take the infinitely harder and evil route of murder when they could file for divorce and move on with their lives?

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You know, I think that they are so egotistical that they believe that they can pull off the perfect crime. And I think that they believe that their spouse is the reason for all of their problems. What a convoluted way of thinking.

Jenifred said:

You know, I think that they are so egotistical that they believe that they can pull off the perfect crime. And I think that they believe that their spouse is the reason for all of their problems. What a convoluted way of thinking.

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Or they have major money problems and they think by killing their spouse and making it look like either a suicide or murder, they can collect on a large life insurance policy, or at the very least, social security death benefits.

Moxie said:

Or they have major money problems and they think by killing their spouse and making it look like either a suicide or murder, they can collect on a large life insurance policy, or at the very least, social security death benefits.

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Not only convoluted thinking though as Jenifred said, but also so short sighted. Anyone with even an iota of common sense and forethought knows that the spouse or significant other is going to be scrutinized closely so the type of myopic thinking that leads one spouse to kill another for money & think they're going to get away with it, can only be called arrogantly stupid & deluded at best.

blaize

my gosh........

.i was sooooooooooo wrong in reading daniel horowitz that i am ashamed beyond belief........

.i do NOT believe i have read raven wrong however, : janets case i DID follow daily, by the minute.........for months. and i stand by my opinion , based on various information i personally evaluated ..

.i have discovered though , that reading a snippet here and there, catching the odd news cast----CAN give one a distorted opinion, ( depending on who you're watching i suppose,) and adopting their point of view.

..i'm sure no-one cares, or is any longer reading perhaps..........but.......my sincerest apologies to daniel horowitz and family for my rash judgement............my prayers do honestly go out to you.........may your faith carry you through these difficult times.

..lj.

{{{{Laurie}}}} I really don't think that apologizes are in order here, but I think it is very sweet of you to do so, and shows what a compassionate, emphathetic person you are. What was out in the media, is all the you had to base your opinions on.

I have learned that everyone grieves differently, however, this is a media "personality" and I think that the shock that Daniel Horowitz was in was truly readable yet not quite understandable in many ways, especially for those that did not know Atty. Horowitz personally. By his words, actions and inactions surrounding the death of Pamela Vitale, I believe that his grief was due to the horror and the brutality of the murder, which has caused him to go into extreme shock and depression.

We had heard through Daniel Horowitz that this was an extremely brutal murder, and there was speculation on how brutal the murder was but obviously this was not confirmed as much by LE regarding the Murder of Pamela Vitale, because it would be giving out too many details.

We learned later of the Lorraine Cross etched into her back. Also, the time of death, was not announced. However, I believe it will come to light that the time of death was consistent with not having Daniel Horowitz on the premises and him having an alibi for the time of death and an arrest has been made in her murder, and I still believe there will be more details to come, that will be truly shocking in nature.

Something we will not see in the murder of poor Janet and her unborn child.

Statistically speaking, violent murders of women are done by a significant other, spouse or someone that knows the victims personally. This would also account for people speculating that is could possibly Daniel Horowitz himself. He was the last person to see her alive and the person that found her and contacted police.

Now, that we have the information regarding Pamela Vitale's murder, and taking into consideration the extreme brutality, which Daniel Horowitz spoke of, and witnessed, since he found her, and all indications were to the fact that Daniel Horowitz was so deeply in Love with Pamela, there were no infidelities noted, now does account for the amount of shock that Daniel Horowitz had exhibited and the strangeness of his interviews, and can account for his actions and inactions since finding his beloved wife murdered.

If you take Daniel Horowitz's actions and inactions and compare them to "The Raven", with his actions and inactions after finding Janet Marie Christiansen Abaroa murdered, along with his unborn child, there is absolutely no comparison and therefore, Laurie, I think that there is no reason to feel horribly about the reasons you may have had doubts in Daniel Horowitz's actions.

I also feel that you are still correct, in your assumptions of guilt regarding "The Raven."

(I know that I am rambling, I typed this up once, and somehow lost it and had to retype it again, I believe the first one I lost was more understandable and I'm not sure if I am making sense. I am extremely exhausted today so I think this post will have to do. I hope you all understand what I am trying to say.)

lauriej said:

my gosh........

.i was sooooooooooo wrong in reading daniel horowitz that i am ashamed beyond belief........

.i do NOT believe i have read raven wrong however, : janets case i DID follow daily, by the minute.........for months. and i stand by my opinion , based on various information i personally evaluated ..

.<respectfully snipped>

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Hello Lauriej,

I don't think you have anything to apologize for at all. You weren't disrespectful in your analysis of DH's potential involvment in Pamela Vitale's murder. As Teminatrixator said there was only what was out in the media at the time for people to base their analysis on & as more information became available everyone's perspective on the crime changed.

Grief does affect different people different ways & to me DH seemed genuine especially in his distress and sad acceptance that Pamela was gone from him forever. I try to look for something similar in Raven Abaroa's behaviour, and while we don't have access to as much information in the media as we'd like what we have seen leads me to wonder if Janet's death caused raven to even miss a beat. He's playing soccer & even attending homecoming at Janet's Alma Mater yet he doesn't have time to ask the public for help in solving his wife's murder? Sorry but that display of sang-froid is a bit too much for me.

blaize

thank you term and blaize.........

..it IS much appreciated that you not only saw my train of thought, but would post accordingly...

..i still feel badly that i was so quick to jump on " the husband did it!" bandwagon ---------------unfortunately, as we evaluate more cases we "get smarter"......the sad part is, it takes "more cases" for that instinct to develop.

..my main focus, IS the janet abaroa murder, i DO feel i have that one down........raven IS the guilty party here, of that i have zero doubt.......i will see this arrest/conviction through to the end.

Daniel Horowitz stepped out of his professional persona and wept publicly. As a defense lawyer, he wouldn't have shown those feelings. Scott and Raven have no professional persona - and apparently, they have no remorse. That's the difference between a human being and a sociopath.

It was devastating watching DH. You just felt so bad for this man who lost the woman he loved so much, his wife! He spoke out, he cried, he demanded justice....and what did he get? The suspect arrested!

What do we have here? No speaking out, no crying, no demand for justice. IMO, raven's and his family's silence has sealed his guilt. What person, other than a psychopath, would act this way?

Hi everyone!

Raven--I definitely think he's guilty!
Scott Peterson--KNEW immediately he was guilty!
Mark Hacking--I was wrong on this one. I didn't think he had done it at first. I was so hoping that she was alive and just hurt somewhere until I heard about the car and the fact that the seat was back too far.
Daniel Horowitz--No way! I never thought he'd killed his wife!
OJ--No brainer for me! GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!!!
Riley Fox--I never thought her father killed her.

As for a few that are still "open discussion" or "in the news":
JonBonet Ramsey--I go back and forth and can't ever come to a solid opinion.
Natalee Holloway--The guys are so guilty! I think Satish is the one that had the least to do with it.


Ya know, I find this interesting because it used to be that when I heard a story, I could go with my gut and it never steered me wrong on a case I was interested in. These days, it doesn't work for me! I am marrying a LE officer and I hear crime stories often so it used to be that I could usually make a pretty good assumption of what happened. Then, Carlie Brucia was abducted and although I watched the video at the car wash like everyone else---I believed in my gut, heart and head whole-heartedly that she would be found alive. At this point, after studying and reading so many cases---it's become wishful thinking for me. I can no longer wrap my mind around a case enough to make a fair assumption. It's too hard with the brutality of the crimes that are happening these days. I swear that after I heard what happened to Jessica Lunsford--it changed everything about the way I look at cases these days. Anything goes it seems. And sometimes, (and the reason some of you on here know me and others don't--because I pop in and out every once in a while only taking in what I can handle) it's just too hard to try and think about what happened so I go for "wishful thinking" and just pray that I am right.

Interesting topic though...

Raven Abaroa - probably guilty.

Scott Peterson - probably guilty.

OJ Simpson - GUILTY. Amazed and disgusted that he is not in prison.

Mark Hacking - I thought he was not guilty. Because it happened nearby, I saw the very first mention of it on TV after he reported Lori missing while jogging. I believed him there, he was very convincing, he's an excellent liar. It hadn't even occurred to me that he would fake a breakdown until I spoke with a friend who is a detective. She had no doubt he was faking. Not that she had seen a whole lot more than had been reported in the news, she just has a fine tuned BS meter.

Daniel Horowitz - not guilty though I had a moment where I thought he may know better than others how to conceal his guilt if he had done it.