Intresting Observation

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mjak

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I am one of those people who is stuck on the fence about this case.
I just can't come to a conclusion. As much as I can't believe the parents are involved I can't explain certaint things. On of several things I have never been able to get past is that Mr. Ramsey tried to get his family to Atlanta within an hour after the body was found. I just can't make sense out of that. Yesterday I was listening to Dan Horowitz talk with Nancy Grace. He was saying how the police had him wait in the car and he kept asking them if he could go back to the trailor to just have one more look at his wife. He waited in that car for two hours His reaction brought to my mind my own difficulty with Mr. Ramsey getting the plane ready to go to go to Atlanta so soon. I know people are different but Dan Horowitz reaction reinforced my own feeling that it is very strange that John Ramsey tried to get to Atlanta so soon. Just an observation.

mjak
 
Not saying that everyone reacts in the same way, but I find this interesting in my own observations: I have several friends who have lost children. Every single one of them has told me that one of the most difficult things was to leave the child's body at the hospital, morgue, scene, etc... They have all said to me that they stayed absolutely as long as they were allowed because once they left, it's like the situation was made more final.

Were the R's asked to leave the house when they did? We've been told that John had the plane readied, but did the authorities absolutely make them leave?
 
I believe they may have been asked to leave as the whole place at that point was a crime scene. However, I believe they tried to 'get outta dodge' long before they were asked to leave. I do not believe inncocent people would do this.

WHY OH WHY would anyone do this?
 
Nehemiah said:
Not saying that everyone reacts in the same way, but I find this interesting in my own observations: I have several friends who have lost children. Every single one of them has told me that one of the most difficult things was to leave the child's body at the hospital, morgue, scene, etc... They have all said to me that they stayed absolutely as long as they were allowed because once they left, it's like the situation was made more final.

Were the R's asked to leave the house when they did? We've been told that John had the plane readied, but did the authorities absolutely make them leave?
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They were asked to leave the house. It was suggested they go to a hotel instead they went to the Fernie's. I completely blame Eller for not separating them and questioning them that day. He didn't know whether he was afoot or horseback. I think all it would have taken was a polite but firm "I'm sorry, Sir but in order to find out who did this we must talk with you and your wife right now."

As far as reactions go this is an interesting website. POMC is as well but my computer seizes up every time I try and go there.

"http://ohiocops.com/grief/margaret.html

A doctor came into the room and matter-of-factly told me, "Your son has expired." I ran outside the hospital and I screamed and I screamed and I screamed. Thank God I was able to do that. Then my defense system took over and I was anesthetized. From the moment he died, I was consumed by the loss. I just couldn't be concerned about how he had died; it was just that he had died."

 
People react to grief in many different ways. Shock can make people do all kinds of things. However, I have yet to hear from one parent or spouse who lost there love one suddenly and didn't want to be with the deceased person as long as possible. When I say be with them I dont' necessarily mean they were able to be with them physically. As there are times the police need to clear a cime scene and there are times when emotionaly the grieving person can't be with the deceased person. . leaving to go halfway around the country immediatly following the discovery of your mudered child is just unsetteling to me.

mjak
 
by the BPD. I think the police were so rattled by JBR being found dead, they were scrambling trying to gain control of the crime. It's ludicruos that they were told to go check into the Holiday Inn and wait--for what? The Ramseys had no idea on what was going on. JR was in shock---too much is being read into that phone call.
 
Maikai said:
by the BPD. I think the police were so rattled by JBR being found dead, they were scrambling trying to gain control of the crime. It's ludicruos that they were told to go check into the Holiday Inn and wait--for what? The Ramseys had no idea on what was going on. JR was in shock---too much is being read into that phone call.
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Wait until they were called for an interview? Wait until the autopsy was performed?
I don't believe for a second anyone truly believes that trying to leave the state when the child was barely cold is reasonable. Can't tell me everyone grieves differently for this one. WHY WHY WHY would you try to leave your baby alone if you just learned of their death?

I have often wondered what my reaction would be if I were at a hospital with a loved one and a doctor told me they had gone (yes, I am pretty morbid at times). How on earth can you simply go home? The thought of leaving them in the hands of clinical people with nobody who loved them? More than I could bear, I think. And they wanted to be hundreds of miles away?? for what good reason? There wasn't one.

Question: Do all IDI's believe that the Ramseys have never done anything questionable pertaining to JBR's death????
 
Quote by Brefie:
"Question: Do all IDI's believe that the Ramseys have never done anything questionable pertaining to JBR's death????"

Brefie,

Speaking on my behalf only ...

Of course there is,and BTW that's a very good question.In fact in the beginning I thought there were many things that were questionable..and many things I have sorted out. I also might add that I do not agree with the way the Ramsey's handled certain things,but I do not think they are guilty because of it. So,with all that said .. the one thing that stands out most in my mind,are the cell phone records.I'm not sure I know what's up with that. That's a situation that makes me wonder.Although I think more an intruder.(someone they may know), was involved,I would change my mind in a second if something came up that warranted it.

Now ... on the flip side of the coin. For people who think the Ramsey's did it,is there nothing that would maybe make you think twice,or give the Ramsey's a benefit of a doubt?
 
Brefie said:
Wait until they were called for an interview? Wait until the autopsy was performed?
I don't believe for a second anyone truly believes that trying to leave the state when the child was barely cold is reasonable. Can't tell me everyone grieves differently for this one. WHY WHY WHY would you try to leave your baby alone if you just learned of their death?

I have often wondered what my reaction would be if I were at a hospital with a loved one and a doctor told me they had gone (yes, I am pretty morbid at times). How on earth can you simply go home? The thought of leaving them in the hands of clinical people with nobody who loved them? More than I could bear, I think. And they wanted to be hundreds of miles away?? for what good reason? There wasn't one.

Question: Do all IDI's believe that the Ramsey's have never done anything questionable pertaining to JBR's death????
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I can only speak of my own experience with any sort of authority. I was with and holding my dad when he died. It took a lot longer than expected and as soon as it was over, I couldn't get out of that hospital fast enough. All I knew was I wanted to get away........away where I wouldn't feel what I was feeling. Then I just shot down emotionally for quite awhile, total denial. Perhaps it has something to do with the fight or flight mechanism?

I adored and loved my father with all of my heart and he was a terrific man. I can't explain it.

BTW a RDI;)
 
Linda7NJ said:
I can only speak of my own experience with any sort of authority. I was with and holding my dad when he died. It took a lot longer than expected and as soon as it was over, I couldn't get out of that hospital fast enough. All I knew was I wanted to get away........away where I wouldn't feel what I was feeling. Then I just shot down emotionally for quite awhile, total denial. Perhaps it has something to do with the fight or flight mechanism?

I adored and loved my father with all of my heart and he was a terrific man. I can't explain it.

BTW a RDI;)
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Wanting to leave the deceased person makes absolut sense. As the emotions are so intense that its a natrual reaction to try to remove ones self from them.
However, trying to remove oneself ,(by going half way around the country) from the entire situation when its your beloved young child who has just been brutally murdered makes zero sense to me. Most people when emotions become so overwhelming have the desire to leave the situation, but desire is not the same as doing it or trying to do it.

mjak
 
Brefie said:
Wait until they were called for an interview? Wait until the autopsy was performed?
I don't believe for a second anyone truly believes that trying to leave the state when the child was barely cold is reasonable. Can't tell me everyone grieves differently for this one. WHY WHY WHY would you try to leave your baby alone if you just learned of their death?

I have often wondered what my reaction would be if I were at a hospital with a loved one and a doctor told me they had gone (yes, I am pretty morbid at times). How on earth can you simply go home? The thought of leaving them in the hands of clinical people with nobody who loved them? More than I could bear, I think. And they wanted to be hundreds of miles away?? for what good reason? There wasn't one.

Question: Do all IDI's believe that the Ramseys have never done anything questionable pertaining to JBR's death????
Click to expand...

There's a difference in an expected, peaceful (if there is such a thing) death, where you have time to come to terms with a death, and the way JBR died and the aftermath. Less than 24 hours earlier, they were enjoying Christmas....looking forward to the future. Then...OVERNIGHT...their whole world was thrown topsy turvy. First they discovered JBR was supposedly kidnapped....spent hours waiting for a phone call, then found her dead in the basement. C'mon....how could they logically think about anything that day? They did want to get her body home (Atlanta) for a "proper burial." And they didn't want her body disturbed once buried, when they found out about the stun gun---she was at rest.
 
Maikai said:
There's a difference in an expected, peaceful (if there is such a thing) death, where you have time to come to terms with a death, and the way JBR died and the aftermath. Less than 24 hours earlier, they were enjoying Christmas....looking forward to the future. Then...OVERNIGHT...their whole world was thrown topsy turvy. First they discovered JBR was supposedly kidnapped....spent hours waiting for a phone call, then found her dead in the basement. C'mon....how could they logically think about anything that day? They did want to get her body home (Atlanta) for a "proper burial." And they didn't want her body disturbed once buried, when they found out about the stun gun---she was at rest.
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Your right I am sure they were not thinking about anything logicaly. However, these are two educated, intelligent worldly people and I think instinct would be to want who ever did this caught ASAP , to want the police to help and to be with there child. All three of those things were right there in Boulder not in Atlanta. I would be less bothered by this if he has come up with the plans to go to atlanta the next day or even that night but about an hour after she was found?? It maybe nothing more then the actions of a man in shock but it just is unsetteling to me.

mjak
 
mjak said:
Your right I am sure they were not thinking about anything logicaly. However, these are two educated, intelligent worldly people and I think instinct would be to want who ever did this caught ASAP , to want the police to help and to be with there child. All three of those things were right there in Boulder not in Atlanta. I would be less bothered by this if he has come up with the plans to go to atlanta the next day or even that night but about an hour after she was found?? It maybe nothing more then the actions of a man in shock but it just is unsetteling to me.

mjak
Click to expand...

Their home was Atlanta---where they had spent many years with friends and family--it's only natural to want to go "home" in time of tragedy. They only returned to Boulder to help the police find the killer--there was nothing there for them after JonBenet was murdered. On top of that, they soon knew the police made a lot of mistakes that first day--but even then JR didn't hold that against them. They thought the police would do their job and find the killer, but instead--on top of blowing the crime scene the first day, the police turned against the Ramseys almost from day one. How can you work with someone like that? And how can you ignore your attorneys counsel? Burke could have been taken away---they could have been indicted and convicted, if the police had their way--like in the Dowaliby case.

They couldn't be with JBR after she was found murdered--the police were in charge--all they could do was get her back to be buried.
 
Maikai said:
Their home was Atlanta---where they had spent many years with friends and family--it's only natural to want to go "home" in time of tragedy. They only returned to Boulder to help the police find the killer--there was nothing there for them after JonBenet was murdered. On top of that, they soon knew the police made a lot of mistakes that first day--but even then JR didn't hold that against them. They thought the police would do their job and find the killer, but instead--on top of blowing the crime scene the first day, the police turned against the Ramseys almost from day one. How can you work with someone like that? And how can you ignore your attorneys counsel? Burke could have been taken away---they could have been indicted and convicted, if the police had their way--like in the Dowaliby case.

They couldn't be with JBR after she was found murdered--the police were in charge--all they could do was get her back to be buried.
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Nothing there for them after JonBenet was murdered?? How about a murder investigation? How about waiting for JonBenet? All of the reasoning you give can not be used in your argument if they weren't thinking logically.....
As for ignoring their attorney's counsel, never have I read anywhere that ANYONE advised them to get out of town, I would imagine that to be the worst legal advice I have ever heard. NO WAY could they have known at that point the police had turned against them.

Burke may have been taken away??? Hmmmmm, they didn't seem that concerned when they shipped him off to friend's ASAP.

The police were in charge? Laughable in this case. If they WERE in charge - how come they wouldn't co-operate and sit for an interview??
 
capps said:
Now ... on the flip side of the coin. For people who think the Ramsey's did it,is there nothing that would maybe make you think twice,or give the Ramsey's a benefit of a doubt?
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering! Now, it's only fair I extend the same courtesy.....

Yes, the brutality of the whole thing makes me wonder, but not give them the benefit of the doubt. I believe both parents to be VERY determined and imagine them to do whatever it took for self preservation.

But the fact that neither of them have a history of violence does not make think twice. There is a TV station that runs a show called 'Snapped', it just does happen, sometimes (even though I believe Burke to have done it).

I do not believe every move ever made by the Ramseys is wrong or an indication of guilt. A lot of things that are pointed out on here by other RDI's are met with a "So what?" from me.
 
Yep. I agree. It has been my experience when a relative dies people fly to them the family doesn't fly away.
 
Maikai said:
Their home was Atlanta---where they had spent many years with friends and family--it's only natural to want to go "home" in time of tragedy. They only returned to Boulder to help the police find the killer--there was nothing there for them after JonBenet was murdered. On top of that, they soon knew the police made a lot of mistakes that first day--but even then JR didn't hold that against them. They thought the police would do their job and find the killer, but instead--on top of blowing the crime scene the first day, the police turned against the Ramseys almost from day one. How can you work with someone like that? And how can you ignore your attorneys counsel? Burke could have been taken away---they could have been indicted and convicted, if the police had their way--like in the Dowaliby case.

They couldn't be with JBR after she was found murdered--the police were in charge--all they could do was get her back to be buried.
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Most of your arguments are excellent reasons for them to go back to Atlanta eventually. None of them make any sense an hour after finding there child brutally murdered. I am not disputing there desisre to return to Atlanta only the timing.
mjak
 
Brefie said:
Nothing there for them after JonBenet was murdered?? How about a murder investigation? How about waiting for JonBenet? All of the reasoning you give can not be used in your argument if they weren't thinking logically.....
As for ignoring their attorney's counsel, never have I read anywhere that ANYONE advised them to get out of town, I would imagine that to be the worst legal advice I have ever heard. NO WAY could they have known at that point the police had turned against them.

Burke may have been taken away??? Hmmmmm, they didn't seem that concerned when they shipped him off to friend's ASAP.

The police were in charge? Laughable in this case. If they WERE in charge - how come they wouldn't co-operate and sit for an interview??
Click to expand...
I completly agree with you Brefie!!!!
 
John Ramsey's stated reason for trying to leave Colorado and fly to Atlanta immediately after JonBenet's body was found, was the security of his family.

However, as pointed out many times, he contradicted this excuse when he ushered Burke past the cops and out of the house at 7:00 AM without police protection and had him driven to the White's house.

The more likely reason for trying to get out of Boulder as quickly as possible was to gain time to get their story straight and temporarily get out from under the jurisdiction of Colorado authorities.
 
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