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  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by kat913 View Post
    Missouri Mule...any chance you could point me in direction of those other eight cases, please?

    Thanks!!
    The ones immediately coming to mind would be Debbie Lewis, Kellie Workman and Tonya Dye, Angela Hammond, Cheryl Kenney and Shirley Rose. I'll have to research this more tomorrow.

    Some I am not familiar with. Tonya Dye is interesting in that she was the sister of the local well known weatherman on KY3. She went missing in 1977 but her body was recovered.

    I'll see what I can do tomorrow as time permits.

    This should help.

    https://www.springfieldmo.gov/633/Cold-Cases
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  2. #782
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    To help move along the discussion of cold cases that may have similarities, here is a quick cliff's note version of some interesting one. I hope this doesn't create too much of a rabbit trial, but since there seems to be some interesting in looking at this....

    Debbie Lewis- A 31 year old nurse at FedMed, abducted 1987 from her car, money and car were not stolen despite opportunity to do so, her body was found 8 months after her abduction in a wooded area just outside the Joplin area. She had dated Carnahan and at one point he was a suspect.

    Ronna Bremmer- a 22 year old pregnant mother of 2 abducted from her home in Ozark, December 1988. Had only lived in MO for a few months. Her remains were never found, but someone mailed her skull to the Sheriff’s Department 3 years later. Her husband looked suspicious for awhile (had been in jail for sexual assault, had molested one of his children), but I don’t believe he was ever officially named a suspect.

    Kellie Workman- 24 year old abducted and murdered June 1989. Was abducted while moving at a cemetery. Her purse, car, and car keys were left at the scene. Her body was found a week later, dumped in a run-off spring near a back country road in a hilly area in Christian County in the Mark Twain forest area. The fact that the case wasn’t solved was largely blamed on missteps by LE.

    Tonya Dye- A school teacher who was abducted in June 1977 (ironically or suspiciously, also on June 7), Carnahan was a suspect for awhile, even though he would have been a teenager at the time. Her body was found in Table Rock Lake. Not much available out there about this one.

    Angela Hammond- This one was a bit further away, up in Clinton. A pregnant 20 year old abducted from a payphone booth in a grocery store parking lot April 1991. Many people have drawn conclusions about this case being linked to Cheryl Kenney’s case (next one). If you read the details, this truly seems to have been a crime of convenience (someone saw her on a payphone at night in an empty parking lot and knew it would be easy to grab her). Her body was never found.

    Cheryl Kenney- Also a bit further away in Nevada MO. A 30 year old abducted in February 1991, likely as she was walking to her car while leaving work at night. Also thought by many to be a crime of convenience (a woman alone in a dark parking lot after 10 pm). Her body was also never found.

  3. #783
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    Tracy Pickett might be added to this list. It happened only two months after the missing women were kidnapped and presumed murdered.

    Joplin is only 70 miles from Springfield and he drove a van. There is a strong suspect in this case, however.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ett_tracy.html
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    Tracy Pickett might be added to this list. It happened only two months after the missing women were kidnapped and presumed murdered.

    Joplin is only 70 miles from Springfield and he drove a van. There is a strong suspect in this case, however.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ett_tracy.html
    Yeah, I've always been under the impression that Tracy's case is solved, just not prove-able.

  5. #785
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    I was asked earlier how one might go about finding missing people in the area around Springfield.

    I did some checking around and the Missouri State Highway Patrol keeps a listing from across the state. My check shows that there are nearly 90 people in or around the Springfield area. This goes all the way back to 1939 to the present day as some were entered as of this date. The total number throughout the state is shown as 589 missing people. Among those were Sherrill, Suzie and Stacy and also Cheryl Kenney, a particularly sad case. Odd that I did not see Angela Hammond. Perhaps I merely overlooked her name.

    I included towns within driving distance such as Joplin, Galena, etc. Having lived in Springfield for 26 years, I am very familiar with the area so could pick the possibles out.

    Some of the missing are male. Some of them are female.

    I am assuming some of the recent missing will show up of their own volition but as of this time they are reported as missing. The names come via the individual police departments and the MSHP puts them into their data base.

    Hope this helps. Many of these people can almost certainly be considered as deceased. The disclaimer shows the limitations of the data base. So it is not or should not be considered as including all possible missing. It is not against the law to go missing. And if no one reports someone as missing they would not be included.

    Known deceased would not be on the list, such as Debbie Lewis or Kelly Workman who some suspected were connected to Gerald Carnahan.

    Disclaimer:

    "The Missouri State Highway Patrol is not the originating source of the information contained on this webpage. The information is derived from the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) via the investigating agency and is automatically updated to the webpage each day. For further information regarding a missing person, please contact the investigating agency."

    https://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/CJ51/Search?id=&page=1&personType=A&county=

    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 08-29-2017 at 08:37 PM.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven_Belle View Post
    Yeah, I've always been under the impression that Tracy's case is solved, just not prove-able.
    Joplin PD questioned a man that lived in Oklahoma that drove a van, of whom they thought was involved, but they couldn't prove it.

    They also attempted to drain one of the local flooded mine shafts, located in the area of Zora & Schifferdecker out by what they call snow ball because of all of the white chat rock from past mining.

    Police gave up their search of the flooded mine pit after they found it difficult/futile to try and pump the water out, and there was apparently too much debris in the mine pit that they felt it was unsafe to send divers down any more than they already had.

    The had what they felt was a valid tip that her body was dumped into that flooded mine pit.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    Joplin PD questioned a man that lived in Oklahoma that drove a van, of whom they thought was involved, but they couldn't prove it.

    They also attempted to drain one of the local flooded mine shafts, located in the area of Zora & Schifferdecker out by what they call snow ball because of all of the white chat rock from past mining.

    Police gave up their search of the flooded mine pit after they found it difficult/futile to try and pump the water out, and there was apparently too much debris in the mine pit that they felt it was unsafe to send divers down any more than they already had.

    The had what they felt was a valid tip that her body was dumped into that flooded mine pit.
    The man from Oklahoma, claimed he dropped Tracy off in front of a local pawn shop on main street in Joplin. It was known that the man had a gun with him that night, according to statements from people who had been at the party in Webb City where the man was, and where he offered her a ride to Joplin to get some clothes......if I recall correctly.

    I think Police feel this guy committed the crime, but just can't prove it.

    There were a lot of girls/ladys that went missing back in the early 90's. I've often wondered what was unique about that time period............

  8. #788
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    [QUOTE=Missouri Mule;13433209]Let me muddy the water here although I don't want to.

    In 1977 a school teacher,Tonya Dye, went missing from the Southern Hill's sub-division. Ironically it happened on June 7, 1977. Her body was found down near Kimberling City some time later.

    I lived there myself although I believe we moved there a couple months later. Her brother was the long time weatherman on KOLR and later on KY3 television. I do not believe her murder has been solved.

    Some have opined that the same month and date signify some kind of connection, possibly an unknown serial killer."

    Here's her obit:
    Dye, Tonya Rae 25 Aug 1938 - 10 Jun 1977 OH 16 Jun 1977 p1
    [Note: Daughter of Fred Raymond & Agnes (Workman) Dye]
    Local School Teacher Body Found In Lake
    Services were held Monday for Miss Tonya Rae Dye, 38, of 2146 South Fairway whose body was found in Table Rock Lake Friday. Stone County Coroner Gary Stumpff said Miss Dye’s body was recovered about 5 p.m. near the Mo 13 bridge near Kimberling City. Stumpff said the cause of death was undetermined. James R. Barnes, Stone County sheriff is conducting an investigation into the death. He said he would wait until after an autopsy was performed before setting a date for an inquest. Results of the autopsy haven’t been released as yet. Sheriff Barnes said person in a boat discovered the body. He said she had not been reported missing to his office. A second grade teacher at Ozark, Miss Dye had also taught at Raytown and Hickman Mills. She had attended school at Sparta and Forsyth and was a graduate of Southwest Missouri State University. She had suffered from arthritis since she was 14, according to a funeral home spokesman. Surviving are her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Fred Dye, Ozark and a sister, Mrs. Roberta Roberts, Strafford. Services were at 2 p.m. Monday in Greenlawn Funeral Home. Burial was in Sparta Cemetery.
    Last edited by MooseMeMuch; 09-11-2017 at 01:05 AM.

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven_Belle View Post
    To help move along the discussion of cold cases that may have similarities, here is a quick cliff's note version of some interesting one. I hope this doesn't create too much of a rabbit trial, but since there seems to be some interesting in looking at this....

    Debbie Lewis- A 31 year old nurse at FedMed, abducted 1987 from her car, money and car were not stolen despite opportunity to do so, her body was found 8 months after her abduction in a wooded area just outside the Joplin area. She had dated Carnahan and at one point he was a suspect.

    Ronna Bremmer- a 22 year old pregnant mother of 2 abducted from her home in Ozark, December 1988. Had only lived in MO for a few months. Her remains were never found, but someone mailed her skull to the Sheriff’s Department 3 years later. Her husband looked suspicious for awhile (had been in jail for sexual assault, had molested one of his children), but I don’t believe he was ever officially named a suspect.

    Kellie Workman- 24 year old abducted and murdered June 1989. Was abducted while moving at a cemetery. Her purse, car, and car keys were left at the scene. Her body was found a week later, dumped in a run-off spring near a back country road in a hilly area in Christian County in the Mark Twain forest area. The fact that the case wasn’t solved was largely blamed on missteps by LE.

    Tonya Dye- A school teacher who was abducted in June 1977 (ironically or suspiciously, also on June 7), Carnahan was a suspect for awhile, even though he would have been a teenager at the time. Her body was found in Table Rock Lake. Not much available out there about this one.

    Angela Hammond- This one was a bit further away, up in Clinton. A pregnant 20 year old abducted from a payphone booth in a grocery store parking lot April 1991. Many people have drawn conclusions about this case being linked to Cheryl Kenney’s case (next one). If you read the details, this truly seems to have been a crime of convenience (someone saw her on a payphone at night in an empty parking lot and knew it would be easy to grab her). Her body was never found.

    Cheryl Kenney- Also a bit further away in Nevada MO. A 30 year old abducted in February 1991, likely as she was walking to her car while leaving work at night. Also thought by many to be a crime of convenience (a woman alone in a dark parking lot after 10 pm). Her body was also never found.
    From the above info, it seems a serial killer was in the Spfld area from 77 and stopped in Aug of 92 ( if we include Tracy Pickett).
    If we use that timeline, the killer did 'evolve' as in he got better at body disposal.

    Also, perhaps (w/ the exception of Hammond) the person appears totally harmless, Boy Scout 'type' of person and being 'too good' and was not know to have a hot temper or violent. The FBI profile did mention something of that persuasion and wanted wives and girlfriends to note if their beloved person's behavior had changed around the 3W went missing and/or they paid extra (obsessive) attention to the case.

    I can think of one person who left the area after the 3W vanished, is 'too good' to be true, had a baby at that time, married with other children in the home etc etc. Moved around a LOT since then....etc etc. I sound like a whacko but .... Gacy was an upstanding citizen, BTK was a Boy Scout Leader and involved in his church, Green River Killer used a baby carseat to help his victims feel 'at ease' enough to hop in his car....

    But my question is, did these abduction/murders slow down significantly after '92?

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseMeMuch View Post
    From the above info, it seems a serial killer was in the Spfld area from 77 and stopped in Aug of 92 ( if we include Tracy Pickett).

    If we use that timeline, the killer did 'evolve' as in he got better at body disposal.

    Also, perhaps (w/ the exception of Hammond) the person appears totally harmless, Boy Scout 'type' of person and being 'too good' and was not know to have a hot temper or violent. The FBI profile did mention something of that persuasion and wanted wives and girlfriends to note if their beloved person's behavior had changed around the 3W went missing and/or they paid extra (obsessive) attention to the case.

    I can think of one person who left the area after the 3W vanished, is 'too good' to be true, had a baby at that time, married with other children in the home etc etc. Moved around a LOT since then....etc etc. I sound like a whacko but .... Gacy was an upstanding citizen, BTK was a Boy Scout Leader and involved in his church, Green River Killer used a baby carseat to help his victims feel 'at ease' enough to hop in his car....

    But my question is, did these abduction/murders slow down significantly after '92?
    I am intrigued about your theory. Can you expand on that some more?

    You can think of "one person?"

    I would be very much interested in who that person was. Use PM if you can. I won't share it. I am trying to eliminate suspects.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra




  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    Undoubtedly they haven't shared everything they know but I see zero evidence they know what happened or who did it.

    What I find totally unacceptable is that they will not respond to potential tipsters or go over the basics of the case.

    Call me a heretic but I don't believe they want to solve it. They could be sued for millions as even the prosecuting attorney said at the time when the 48 hour program aired. And especialy if one of their own was involved.

    I can't say for certain but honestly I don't believe they are even working the case. Just run out the clock until everyone associated with this case die off thereby eliminating the lawsuits that could be filed.
    Reminds me of the Heidi Allen case in New York.


    Justice for Abigail Williams and Liberty German

    Justice for Brittanee Drexel

    Justice for all child and juvenile victims of monsters

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