NY NY - Katherine Herold, 15, Tonawanda, 1 July 1985
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luxISlight
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Wow, seemingly "normal" husband/father and was convicted and pled guilty to multiple rapes.
https://books.google.com/books?id=t...v=onepage&q=Katherine Herold murdered&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=t...v=onepage&q=Katherine Herold murdered&f=false
hoover1985
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Hello, I am brand new to WS but after I get a good handle on what will be shareable I will be offering what I believe should be helpful information about Katherine Herold's murder in 1985. Hope I can find some folks still interested in this cold case.
Welcome to Ws hoover1985, thanks for chiming in!
hoover1985
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Thank you, dotr!
The two videos you posted from WGRZ are, I believe, the most recent updates on the Kathy Herold murder, and did re-awaken some interest in the cold case. Unfortunately they also bring up some of the more problematic issues with this case.
1. They lead with the supposed connection to the Bike Path Rapist. Dennis Delano, the detective who cracked the Bike Path Rapist case, has stated that he does not believe that Altemio Sanchez murdered Kathy. Sanchez has never admitted to murdering Kathy despite the fact that he will never leave prison and has nothing to lose. After Brian Moline, the cold case detective assigned to Kathy's murder in 2007, was introduced to the public to be pursuing the Sanchez lead, no further information was forthcoming, no updates were issued, and this aspect of the case faded away until the Buffalo D.A. and WGRZ began drawing spurious connections.
2. The first segment also engages in what can only called called victim-blaming. "Katherine had a reputation for doing what she wasn't supposed to." "Katherine was a rebellious child." "Katherine liked to hang out with people that were older than her." This theme dates back to Buffalo News articles from 1985 that implied that Katherine was in a place she shouldn't have been when she was murdered, and with some exceptions has continued over the decades.
3. The second segment establishes that the FBI was involved in the case, which is also supported by Buffalo News articles from 1985. However, I have applied for information on the case through FOIA, and although it was acknowledged that the documents exist, I could not see them because the the case was still considered open after more than 35 years. This was verified by a Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective I met with (off the record, of course) in Spring 2020.
I prepared a relatively extensive document on Kathy's murder for the meeting with the TOT police detective - once I have time to go through and remove the names of the POI (all unofficial, not made public by police or mainstream media) I will post here. Sorry for the wordiness!
The two videos you posted from WGRZ are, I believe, the most recent updates on the Kathy Herold murder, and did re-awaken some interest in the cold case. Unfortunately they also bring up some of the more problematic issues with this case.
1. They lead with the supposed connection to the Bike Path Rapist. Dennis Delano, the detective who cracked the Bike Path Rapist case, has stated that he does not believe that Altemio Sanchez murdered Kathy. Sanchez has never admitted to murdering Kathy despite the fact that he will never leave prison and has nothing to lose. After Brian Moline, the cold case detective assigned to Kathy's murder in 2007, was introduced to the public to be pursuing the Sanchez lead, no further information was forthcoming, no updates were issued, and this aspect of the case faded away until the Buffalo D.A. and WGRZ began drawing spurious connections.
2. The first segment also engages in what can only called called victim-blaming. "Katherine had a reputation for doing what she wasn't supposed to." "Katherine was a rebellious child." "Katherine liked to hang out with people that were older than her." This theme dates back to Buffalo News articles from 1985 that implied that Katherine was in a place she shouldn't have been when she was murdered, and with some exceptions has continued over the decades.
3. The second segment establishes that the FBI was involved in the case, which is also supported by Buffalo News articles from 1985. However, I have applied for information on the case through FOIA, and although it was acknowledged that the documents exist, I could not see them because the the case was still considered open after more than 35 years. This was verified by a Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective I met with (off the record, of course) in Spring 2020.
I prepared a relatively extensive document on Kathy's murder for the meeting with the TOT police detective - once I have time to go through and remove the names of the POI (all unofficial, not made public by police or mainstream media) I will post here. Sorry for the wordiness!
hoover1985
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First section of document prepared for Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective
DATE: July 14, 2020
TITLE: KATHERINE HEROLD MURDER
SYNOPSIS: Extensive discussion of unsolved murder of KATHERINE HEROLD, Kenmore, NY on July 1,1985, focusing on pertinent information that has come to light in decades following regarding the individuals responsible for her murder.
PURPOSE : Justice for deceased; acknowledgment of guilt and punishment for responsible parties.
BACKGROUND: On July 1, 1985, KATHY HEROLD, 15 years old, was strangled to death and her body found on the railroad tracks behind an abandoned grain elevator and popular teenage party spot called SNAKELAND on the line between Kenmore, NY and the Town of Tonawanda, NY. The spot was frequented by HEADS, Heavy Metal fans who dressed in leather and denim, drank alcohol, took drugs and dabbled in Satanism. KATHY could either be considered a member of this subculture or aspired to be part of it. She was said to be dating an older individual (25-26 years old) who was a member of the subculture. A number of the early news articles about KATHY’s murder focused on the Satanism-related aspects of SNAKELAND and either implied or stated outright that KATHY’s murder could possibly have been part of a Satanic ritual. (Note: this was 1985, which could be considered the height of the “Satanic Panic”, a moral panic exemplified by the McMartin Pre-School controversy and the multiple accusations in Jordan, Minnesota.) There was also a pervasive rumor that only grew as time passed with no arrests in the case that the murderer may have been a “protected individual”, the son of a local politician or high-ranking police officer, and therefore was never charged. These rumors aside, no one publicly verified that they knew where KATHY HEROLD was or who she was with between 7:30pm Sunday night and 6:30 am Monday morning when her body was discovered. The Town of Tonawanda Police claimed to be following up on several Persons of Interest but after a certain point there were no further news updates.
DATE: July 14, 2020
TITLE: KATHERINE HEROLD MURDER
SYNOPSIS: Extensive discussion of unsolved murder of KATHERINE HEROLD, Kenmore, NY on July 1,1985, focusing on pertinent information that has come to light in decades following regarding the individuals responsible for her murder.
PURPOSE : Justice for deceased; acknowledgment of guilt and punishment for responsible parties.
BACKGROUND: On July 1, 1985, KATHY HEROLD, 15 years old, was strangled to death and her body found on the railroad tracks behind an abandoned grain elevator and popular teenage party spot called SNAKELAND on the line between Kenmore, NY and the Town of Tonawanda, NY. The spot was frequented by HEADS, Heavy Metal fans who dressed in leather and denim, drank alcohol, took drugs and dabbled in Satanism. KATHY could either be considered a member of this subculture or aspired to be part of it. She was said to be dating an older individual (25-26 years old) who was a member of the subculture. A number of the early news articles about KATHY’s murder focused on the Satanism-related aspects of SNAKELAND and either implied or stated outright that KATHY’s murder could possibly have been part of a Satanic ritual. (Note: this was 1985, which could be considered the height of the “Satanic Panic”, a moral panic exemplified by the McMartin Pre-School controversy and the multiple accusations in Jordan, Minnesota.) There was also a pervasive rumor that only grew as time passed with no arrests in the case that the murderer may have been a “protected individual”, the son of a local politician or high-ranking police officer, and therefore was never charged. These rumors aside, no one publicly verified that they knew where KATHY HEROLD was or who she was with between 7:30pm Sunday night and 6:30 am Monday morning when her body was discovered. The Town of Tonawanda Police claimed to be following up on several Persons of Interest but after a certain point there were no further news updates.
Wondering if there is any DNA because if there is even just a bit, Othram could help, imo.
Refresher re- post,
Could Sanchez have killed a fourth time? Joan Diver slaying led to reopening of 1985 case | Latest Headlines | buffalonews.com
Detectives said she was last seen with what they described as a boyfriend about 8 p.m., and the rail crew found her body at 6:30 the following morning.
Police questioned the young man and others but never had enough evidence to charge anyone.''
"This case was worked very hard by the detectives at the time," said Moline, the cold case detective. "No evidence ever turned up. It remained unsolved."
Refresher re- post,
Could Sanchez have killed a fourth time? Joan Diver slaying led to reopening of 1985 case | Latest Headlines | buffalonews.com
- Sep 23, 2007
- ''A train crew first saw the body, lying across the CSX tracks just inside the Kenmore border with Buffalo, a half-mile from what was then called the American Brass plant on Military Road.
She appeared almost doll-like, a young teenage girl dressed in a T-shirt, blue jeans and cowboy boots.
There was a deep gash over one eye, an angry red line circled her neck. A similar mark was gouged into the back of her hand, as if she had got it inside the garrote her killer used to strangle her.
Her name was Katherine Herold, 15, a freshman at Kenmore West High School. She was the daughter of Donald G. Herold, the Buffalo Museum of Science director who had died the year before on an excursion in Mexico, and his wife, Elaine, an archaeologist and professor at Buffalo State College.''
- ''Before her father died, Kathy took horseback riding lessons and was a ballet student. She performed a dance recital with a friend, Ani DiFranco, long before DiFranco became a recording artist.''
Detectives said she was last seen with what they described as a boyfriend about 8 p.m., and the rail crew found her body at 6:30 the following morning.
Police questioned the young man and others but never had enough evidence to charge anyone.''
"This case was worked very hard by the detectives at the time," said Moline, the cold case detective. "No evidence ever turned up. It remained unsolved."
hoover1985
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The DNA question is totally valid, especially because that may explain why the FBI were involved - perhaps the appropriate instruments to test for this type of evidence were not available in Western New York in 1985? Of course, as stated above, until the FBI releases the documents there is no way we can know anything for sure. Buffalo, NY DA referenced an "FBI profile" of Kathy's murderer in one of the WGRZ segments, but provided no further details. Will try to further flesh out background as we go ahead here.
Please forgive my ignorance - what is Othram?
Please forgive my ignorance - what is Othram?
Prepare to be amazed! Othram has been solving cold cases left right and center through science.
Cases (dnasolves.com)
Ws thread..
Othram - General Discussion | Page 28 (websleuths.com)
hoover1985
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Holy crap! You weren't kidding!
hoover1985
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Second section of document prepared for Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective, July 2020
INVESTIGATIVE SUMMARY: A timeline from 1985 to the present day follows.
1985
News articles from this period about KATHY HEROLD’s murder contain many contradictions from newspaper to newspaper, and article to article.
July 2 - North Tonawanda Evening News
Stated Kathy was “beaten about the face and head and manually strangled to death”.
“According to the Erie County Medical Examiner, Katherine’s death was caused when she was strangled by human hands.”
July 3 - Tonawanda News
“Mayor Nist pledged Kenmore police will work with Town of Tonawanda and other police agencies to apprehend the murderer or murderers. Chief Arnet told the board that, while the girl’s body was found in the town, she was a resident of the village and Kenmore police are cooperating in the investigation.”
July 4 - Tonawanda News
“Town of Tonawanda police plan to interview seven acquaintances of Katherine Herold, the 15-year-old Kenmore girl found strangled to death Monday morning near railroad tracks off Military Road.
Erie County Medical Examiner’s office today reported that the girl ‘may have been strangled to death before lacerations appeared on her head.’
A clerk in the Erie County Medical Examiner’s office said ‘She may have been struck by a passing train, which caused the cuts to her head, after she was strangled to death by hand.’”
Undated (ordered in reference to Medical Examiner’s clerk’s theory) - North Tonawanda Evening News
“Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said today, ‘She had not been struck by a passing train as previously theorized by a clerk in the medical examiner’s office.’ The chief said he did not know today what instrument had been used on the girl’s head to cause the lacerations found on it when her body was discovered about 6:30 am July 1 off Military Road.”
Undated (reference to KATHY HEROLD’s murder occurring “last week”) – Kenmore Bee
“It may not have come as a surprise to Town of Tonawanda police that Katherine Herold’s mother wanted them to look for her teenage daughter in the area of the grain silos, on Military Rd., after the girl had been reported missing last week. Teens have been drawn to the vacant grain silos and nearby empty warehouse for at least the past 20 years.
Within the past two months, town police have heightened their efforts to break up gangs of youths at the site because of recent evidence of devil worship there.
Police say they have seen as many as 90 youths between the ages of 13 and 19 assemble at the area which is known as “Snakeland” by the youths. Drinking alcohol and doing drugs seems to be a common practice by the youths, but satanic actions appear to be creeping into the purpose of the gathering, police say.
‘The 17, 18 and 19 -year old kids are luring the juveniles and putting them into an environment we want to stop,’ Lt. Robert Little of the Town of Tonawanda Police said.
He added, however, the group has a tight code of ethics dealing with squealers.”
July 15 - Tonawanda News
“Town of Tonawanda police today said polygraph tests have been given to three young males and more are expected to be questioned in connection with the recent strangulation death of Kathy Herold of Kenmore.
An autopsy states that the girl was beaten about the head with a blunt instrument before she was strangled to death.”
July 21 – Buffalo News
“Police and the young people themselves agree on those points. But the strangling of a 15-year-old Kenmore girl, whose body was recovered about 500 yards away from Snakeland on July 1, has ignited a controversy over whether the young people have been involved in actual satanic rituals.
While police have found no direct link between the death of Katherine Herold and any satanic-like cult, her friends say she was a participant in the events that some police call satanic rituals and that the participants call large beer-marijuana parties.”
“Police have been quick to dispel many of the rumors that have become common currency in the village and town…Police also have denied vehemently rumors that the Herold killing was a sacrifice.”
August 4 – Buffalo News
“Despite the fact that Buffalo and Town of Tonawanda detectives have interviewed some of the same youths in the slayings of Michelle Kasperek and Katherine Herold, police believe that they’re probably looking for (ILLEGIBLE) the two celebrated cases.
Miss Kasperek, 13, of Black Rock and Miss Herold, 15, of Kenmore were found murdered several miles apart, in similarly grisly circumstances. The Buffalo girl’s throat was slashed when she was killed in May 1984; the Kenmore girl was strangled, with her body found between the rails of railroad tracks July 1.
There also are indications that the two victims knew some of the same teen-age youths, police say.
Because of those similarities, detectives from the two police agencies have covered some common ground in their separate probes and have investigated the possibility of the same killer or killers in the two cases. There also have been rumors on the street that the killings may be linked.
‘I can’t rule it out,’ Town of Tonawanda Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said, last week. ‘We certainly have looked in that direction.’”
August 10 – Tonawanda News
“Abandoned Grain Elevator Sealed Again:
Forty truckloads of stone and earth will be piled against the railroad side of the abandoned grain elevators in the Town of Tonawanda today, to seal off entrances to the building.
Over the past few years, two youths fell to their deaths inside the elevator…About six weeks ago, Katherine Herold, 15, of Kenmore, was found strangled to death near the site.”
November 2 - Tonawanda News
“Forensic reports on evidence collected in the July 1 strangulation murder of 15-year-old Katherine Herold of Kenmore, are still being awaited from the FBI Laboratory in Washington, DC, Town of Tonawanda detectives said today.
Town Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said the FBI examination of evidence gathered at the murder scene and elsewhere is essential before any further progress is anticipated in solving murder case.”
Unfortunately this writer could not find any articles updating with the results of the FBI’s examination, or for that matter any discussion of why the FBI’s involvement was necessary at all to a local murder investigation. Writer has found no further news articles of note from 1986 through 2007.
INVESTIGATIVE SUMMARY: A timeline from 1985 to the present day follows.
1985
News articles from this period about KATHY HEROLD’s murder contain many contradictions from newspaper to newspaper, and article to article.
July 2 - North Tonawanda Evening News
Stated Kathy was “beaten about the face and head and manually strangled to death”.
“According to the Erie County Medical Examiner, Katherine’s death was caused when she was strangled by human hands.”
July 3 - Tonawanda News
“Mayor Nist pledged Kenmore police will work with Town of Tonawanda and other police agencies to apprehend the murderer or murderers. Chief Arnet told the board that, while the girl’s body was found in the town, she was a resident of the village and Kenmore police are cooperating in the investigation.”
July 4 - Tonawanda News
“Town of Tonawanda police plan to interview seven acquaintances of Katherine Herold, the 15-year-old Kenmore girl found strangled to death Monday morning near railroad tracks off Military Road.
Erie County Medical Examiner’s office today reported that the girl ‘may have been strangled to death before lacerations appeared on her head.’
A clerk in the Erie County Medical Examiner’s office said ‘She may have been struck by a passing train, which caused the cuts to her head, after she was strangled to death by hand.’”
Undated (ordered in reference to Medical Examiner’s clerk’s theory) - North Tonawanda Evening News
“Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said today, ‘She had not been struck by a passing train as previously theorized by a clerk in the medical examiner’s office.’ The chief said he did not know today what instrument had been used on the girl’s head to cause the lacerations found on it when her body was discovered about 6:30 am July 1 off Military Road.”
Undated (reference to KATHY HEROLD’s murder occurring “last week”) – Kenmore Bee
“It may not have come as a surprise to Town of Tonawanda police that Katherine Herold’s mother wanted them to look for her teenage daughter in the area of the grain silos, on Military Rd., after the girl had been reported missing last week. Teens have been drawn to the vacant grain silos and nearby empty warehouse for at least the past 20 years.
Within the past two months, town police have heightened their efforts to break up gangs of youths at the site because of recent evidence of devil worship there.
Police say they have seen as many as 90 youths between the ages of 13 and 19 assemble at the area which is known as “Snakeland” by the youths. Drinking alcohol and doing drugs seems to be a common practice by the youths, but satanic actions appear to be creeping into the purpose of the gathering, police say.
‘The 17, 18 and 19 -year old kids are luring the juveniles and putting them into an environment we want to stop,’ Lt. Robert Little of the Town of Tonawanda Police said.
He added, however, the group has a tight code of ethics dealing with squealers.”
July 15 - Tonawanda News
“Town of Tonawanda police today said polygraph tests have been given to three young males and more are expected to be questioned in connection with the recent strangulation death of Kathy Herold of Kenmore.
An autopsy states that the girl was beaten about the head with a blunt instrument before she was strangled to death.”
July 21 – Buffalo News
“Police and the young people themselves agree on those points. But the strangling of a 15-year-old Kenmore girl, whose body was recovered about 500 yards away from Snakeland on July 1, has ignited a controversy over whether the young people have been involved in actual satanic rituals.
While police have found no direct link between the death of Katherine Herold and any satanic-like cult, her friends say she was a participant in the events that some police call satanic rituals and that the participants call large beer-marijuana parties.”
“Police have been quick to dispel many of the rumors that have become common currency in the village and town…Police also have denied vehemently rumors that the Herold killing was a sacrifice.”
August 4 – Buffalo News
“Despite the fact that Buffalo and Town of Tonawanda detectives have interviewed some of the same youths in the slayings of Michelle Kasperek and Katherine Herold, police believe that they’re probably looking for (ILLEGIBLE) the two celebrated cases.
Miss Kasperek, 13, of Black Rock and Miss Herold, 15, of Kenmore were found murdered several miles apart, in similarly grisly circumstances. The Buffalo girl’s throat was slashed when she was killed in May 1984; the Kenmore girl was strangled, with her body found between the rails of railroad tracks July 1.
There also are indications that the two victims knew some of the same teen-age youths, police say.
Because of those similarities, detectives from the two police agencies have covered some common ground in their separate probes and have investigated the possibility of the same killer or killers in the two cases. There also have been rumors on the street that the killings may be linked.
‘I can’t rule it out,’ Town of Tonawanda Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said, last week. ‘We certainly have looked in that direction.’”
August 10 – Tonawanda News
“Abandoned Grain Elevator Sealed Again:
Forty truckloads of stone and earth will be piled against the railroad side of the abandoned grain elevators in the Town of Tonawanda today, to seal off entrances to the building.
Over the past few years, two youths fell to their deaths inside the elevator…About six weeks ago, Katherine Herold, 15, of Kenmore, was found strangled to death near the site.”
November 2 - Tonawanda News
“Forensic reports on evidence collected in the July 1 strangulation murder of 15-year-old Katherine Herold of Kenmore, are still being awaited from the FBI Laboratory in Washington, DC, Town of Tonawanda detectives said today.
Town Chief of Detectives Robert McDonough said the FBI examination of evidence gathered at the murder scene and elsewhere is essential before any further progress is anticipated in solving murder case.”
Unfortunately this writer could not find any articles updating with the results of the FBI’s examination, or for that matter any discussion of why the FBI’s involvement was necessary at all to a local murder investigation. Writer has found no further news articles of note from 1986 through 2007.
hoover1985
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Third section of document prepared for Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective, July 2020
2007
In 2007 the KATHY HEROLD murder case was re-opened by a Town of Tonawanda cold-case detective, Brian Moline. It is apparent from local news articles from the period that the case was re-opened in the hope of linking it to Altemio Sanchez, the Bike Path Rapist. There were some apparent similarities between Joan Diver, Sanchez’s last murder victim, and the murder of KATHY HEROLD. However, no further charges were levied at Sanchez, and he did not confess to KATHY’s murder. Sanchez remains incarcerated at Clinton Correctional Facility.
On an online Topix forum from the same year, “Could 22-year-old Murder Be Linked to Sanchez?”, several theories as to KATHY HEROLD’s murder were suggested, very few of them linked to Altemio Sanchez. Most notably, the “protected individual” theory from 1985 comes up again:
“This may have nothing to do with Sanchez. According to the info from a reliable source, he (the source) had single-handedly figured out this murder and the cops covered it up because one of the killers was the son of a high-ranking local police official. This individual confronted the police who then swept this under the carpet.”
And this item, which was questioned by others on the forum but never followed-up by the author:
“the reason this hasn’t beeen solved is that the 3 guys involved in her death have all died since then. The cops knew it then and still know it”
2013-2019
In March of 2019, a large number of Facebook posts about the murder of KATHY HEROLD were found under the public group headed In Memoriam (Kenmore West & East Alumni) Kenmore New York.
The most salient posts are gathered here and combined under appropriate headings in APPENDICES A-D. The individual undated posts presented here begin in 2013 at the earliest and the last post ends late 2018. This thread still exists on the In Memoriam group on Facebook, uncertain as to any recent additions or subtractions.
There are 3 individuals who are consistently mentioned as being involved in KATHY HEROLD’S murder:
NN – The consensus of the online posters is that NN was KATHY HEROLD’s boyfriend and murderer.
CC – Role Uncertain – Individual had scratches on chest day after murder, assumed to be from KATHY HEROLD fighting back with hands/nails. (It has been established that Kathy Herold fought back against her murderer.)
PM (deceased – 1986) – Role Uncertain – Unknown if PM was shot or committed suicide with a gun but individual died in 1986.
2007
In 2007 the KATHY HEROLD murder case was re-opened by a Town of Tonawanda cold-case detective, Brian Moline. It is apparent from local news articles from the period that the case was re-opened in the hope of linking it to Altemio Sanchez, the Bike Path Rapist. There were some apparent similarities between Joan Diver, Sanchez’s last murder victim, and the murder of KATHY HEROLD. However, no further charges were levied at Sanchez, and he did not confess to KATHY’s murder. Sanchez remains incarcerated at Clinton Correctional Facility.
On an online Topix forum from the same year, “Could 22-year-old Murder Be Linked to Sanchez?”, several theories as to KATHY HEROLD’s murder were suggested, very few of them linked to Altemio Sanchez. Most notably, the “protected individual” theory from 1985 comes up again:
“This may have nothing to do with Sanchez. According to the info from a reliable source, he (the source) had single-handedly figured out this murder and the cops covered it up because one of the killers was the son of a high-ranking local police official. This individual confronted the police who then swept this under the carpet.”
And this item, which was questioned by others on the forum but never followed-up by the author:
“the reason this hasn’t beeen solved is that the 3 guys involved in her death have all died since then. The cops knew it then and still know it”
2013-2019
In March of 2019, a large number of Facebook posts about the murder of KATHY HEROLD were found under the public group headed In Memoriam (Kenmore West & East Alumni) Kenmore New York.
The most salient posts are gathered here and combined under appropriate headings in APPENDICES A-D. The individual undated posts presented here begin in 2013 at the earliest and the last post ends late 2018. This thread still exists on the In Memoriam group on Facebook, uncertain as to any recent additions or subtractions.
There are 3 individuals who are consistently mentioned as being involved in KATHY HEROLD’S murder:
NN – The consensus of the online posters is that NN was KATHY HEROLD’s boyfriend and murderer.
CC – Role Uncertain – Individual had scratches on chest day after murder, assumed to be from KATHY HEROLD fighting back with hands/nails. (It has been established that Kathy Herold fought back against her murderer.)
PM (deceased – 1986) – Role Uncertain – Unknown if PM was shot or committed suicide with a gun but individual died in 1986.
hoover1985
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Fourth section of document prepared for Town of Tonawanda, NY police detective, July 2020
2020
A local television station, WGRZ, presented a two-part series called “Unsolved” in January-February of 2020 with a reporter named Leanne Stuck about KATHY HEROLD’s murder. The two-part series mostly consisted of Erie County District Attorney John Flynn presenting already commonly known facts about KATHY HEROLD’s murder, including referring to KATHY as “having a reputation” and being a “rebellious child”. Segment did state that KATHY left her mother’s house between 6:30 and 7pm and ended up at SNAKELAND, although only referred to it as the “area between Mang Park and the railroad tracks” although period Satanic graffiti is shown. Segment also showed an interview with a police officer from the period (1985), who referred, seemingly out of context, to a sharp weapon like a “screwdriver or something like that” that would make a “cut or slice” wound. Perhaps this was in reference to the gash above KATHY HEROLD’s eye, but out of context it is impossible to tell. The rest of the series pointed toward ALTEMIO SANCHEZ as being the Person of Interest responsible, which was last publicly pursued in 2007 with no positive results.
As haphazard as these segments were, the response was notable. Although the WGRZ site does not allow comments or list number of views, the Facebook group In Memoriam post of the first WGRZ video segment received 75 “likes” and had 141 comments. These comments did not contain nearly as much useful knowledge as the comments on the earlier thread, but served to show that, 35 years later, the same names are being referenced and the HEAD subculture is still actively discussing KATHY HEROLD’s murder.
At the advice of a mutual friend, this writer contacted a woman named KD in early July of 2020. KD “covered” for KATHY HEROLD the night KATHY was murdered – KD told Kathy’s mother that KATHY was sleeping over, when in truth KD stated that KATHY left to go meet NN. KD stated that KATHY kept KD away from her “other friends” (as seen in the Facebook group comments in previous section, KD did not contribute and was never mentioned) because KATHY told KAREN that she was “too good”.
KD told this writer that at the time KATHY was murdered KATHY was pregnant. This information is not referred to in any articles or posts that I have seen. KATHY told KD this in confidence the night of her murder. KD claimed that KATHY stated that “no one else” knew about the pregnancy except KD. KATHY stated NN did not know, and KATHY didn’t make any reference to when she was planning on telling him. Police questioned KD the day after KATHY’s murder, and again several days later. A makeshift Question and Answer constructed from Instant Messages between this writer and KD is found in APPENDIX E.
This writer believes that the numerous inconsistencies in the news reports of the local police work, the very long-term shared beliefs of the HEAD subculture in Kenmore/Town of Tonawanda about the true identity of KATHY HEROLD’s murderer, the unexplained involvement of the FBI, the persistent rumors about a “protected individual” and the introduction of new information about KATHY HEROLD’s pregnancy make this a case very much worth exploring.
2020
A local television station, WGRZ, presented a two-part series called “Unsolved” in January-February of 2020 with a reporter named Leanne Stuck about KATHY HEROLD’s murder. The two-part series mostly consisted of Erie County District Attorney John Flynn presenting already commonly known facts about KATHY HEROLD’s murder, including referring to KATHY as “having a reputation” and being a “rebellious child”. Segment did state that KATHY left her mother’s house between 6:30 and 7pm and ended up at SNAKELAND, although only referred to it as the “area between Mang Park and the railroad tracks” although period Satanic graffiti is shown. Segment also showed an interview with a police officer from the period (1985), who referred, seemingly out of context, to a sharp weapon like a “screwdriver or something like that” that would make a “cut or slice” wound. Perhaps this was in reference to the gash above KATHY HEROLD’s eye, but out of context it is impossible to tell. The rest of the series pointed toward ALTEMIO SANCHEZ as being the Person of Interest responsible, which was last publicly pursued in 2007 with no positive results.
As haphazard as these segments were, the response was notable. Although the WGRZ site does not allow comments or list number of views, the Facebook group In Memoriam post of the first WGRZ video segment received 75 “likes” and had 141 comments. These comments did not contain nearly as much useful knowledge as the comments on the earlier thread, but served to show that, 35 years later, the same names are being referenced and the HEAD subculture is still actively discussing KATHY HEROLD’s murder.
At the advice of a mutual friend, this writer contacted a woman named KD in early July of 2020. KD “covered” for KATHY HEROLD the night KATHY was murdered – KD told Kathy’s mother that KATHY was sleeping over, when in truth KD stated that KATHY left to go meet NN. KD stated that KATHY kept KD away from her “other friends” (as seen in the Facebook group comments in previous section, KD did not contribute and was never mentioned) because KATHY told KAREN that she was “too good”.
KD told this writer that at the time KATHY was murdered KATHY was pregnant. This information is not referred to in any articles or posts that I have seen. KATHY told KD this in confidence the night of her murder. KD claimed that KATHY stated that “no one else” knew about the pregnancy except KD. KATHY stated NN did not know, and KATHY didn’t make any reference to when she was planning on telling him. Police questioned KD the day after KATHY’s murder, and again several days later. A makeshift Question and Answer constructed from Instant Messages between this writer and KD is found in APPENDIX E.
This writer believes that the numerous inconsistencies in the news reports of the local police work, the very long-term shared beliefs of the HEAD subculture in Kenmore/Town of Tonawanda about the true identity of KATHY HEROLD’s murderer, the unexplained involvement of the FBI, the persistent rumors about a “protected individual” and the introduction of new information about KATHY HEROLD’s pregnancy make this a case very much worth exploring.
girlinblue
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Hello. Am local. You might be interested in this podcast and website:
Return to Snakeland: PODCAST
It's about Snakeland, growing up in Kenmore, all the crimes and weird things going on at the time. I've only listened to the first episode, and it was some time ago, so I can't say how much it deviates but there are a couple episodes dedicated to Kathy. There are newspaper clippings and some loose timelines.
(Mods, please do edit/remove if you do not think this is relevant.)
Return to Snakeland: PODCAST
It's about Snakeland, growing up in Kenmore, all the crimes and weird things going on at the time. I've only listened to the first episode, and it was some time ago, so I can't say how much it deviates but there are a couple episodes dedicated to Kathy. There are newspaper clippings and some loose timelines.
(Mods, please do edit/remove if you do not think this is relevant.)
hoover1985
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APPENDIX A. KATHY HEROLD’S WHEREABOUTS NIGHT OF MURDER
Female Alumni
I will NEVER forget Kathy!! Was actually supposed to meet her at the Youth Center (Mang Park) the night she was murdered. We were excited about the night, and didnt think she blew us off so we (can't remember who I was with) started at *advertiser censored*'s creek and walked the Tracks all the way to Snakeland looking for her! When some of us first met her, we used to tease her. for her red hair. then we became pretty good friends...I'll never forget talking to the press and the police....she was wonderful!!
Female Alumni
i remember that night as well! dont think it was me with you looking for her but i remember wondering where she was that night.
Female Alumni
Right? it was some big event...Think was supposed to be at the Wall.but we kept looking.. and if I'm not mistaken, she was talking about breaking up with.....(Female Alumni), did you go to the police station with us, after we saw what we saw at the fence?? there were like 5 of us. me, (Female Alumni), My sis...I looked into her murder in the early 90's, and still they had nothing.
Female Alumni
it was something at the wall. i didnt talk to the police. i dont remember what we saw at the fence? may want to pm that to me. it still gives me the shivers cause were all supposed to be together that night.
(Unknown location for “the Wall” - assuming a location like “*advertiser censored*’s creek” named by the Heads.)
APPENDIX B. NN
Female Alumni
I was thinking NN.....
Female Alumni
we all need to talk....i thought this was solved
Male Alumni
..where and what area was this...was she from the parkside proj....
my father might have been i that case...
Female Alumni
Yeah.... NN... that was what I was told, what I've always thought... and as soon as I read your post here... I didn't even have to guess.
Male Alumni
this happened at the old Grain Mills--Snakeland. Kathy, I believe was from Mang Park area in Kenmore.
It was more than just NN...
Female Alumni
now ya got me trying to remember someone from HS with the initial NN
Female Alumni
Not from high school....believe he was older.
I wish I had proof! Always heard the rumors and seems like I'm not the only one...the same name always comes up. And he was a real dirtbag so it's probably true!
Male Alumni
Who?
Female Alumni
His name was N! I'm old and can't remember his last name for the life of me...
Male Alumni
I know who you mean
. . .
Female Alumni
NN
Female Alumni
NN...I just felt it on my gut whenever he creeped around. I remember spitting on him and screaming at him the last time I saw him in the 80's and calling him a murderer..and the look he gave me froze my soul. My friend pulled me away from him because she didn't want me to be next but back then I was fearless and i just wanted to hurt him bad!!!
Female Alumni
Do you know if the person you mention is still around?
. . .
Female Alumni
I wouldnt want to give NN any kind of heads up...but if anyone does... we shouldn't post too much info... or make it a closed group.
Female Alumni
To clear up confusion.... it can hardly be said that this is a private group. There are nearly 6 thousand KW and KE alumni parents, siblings, cousins etc. in this group.
Female Alumni
I had no idea she had dated him. What was the age difference??? He was years older than me! What a . Now that we're talking about it here, I remember his name came up as a suspect. I worked.at a store on delaware and he came in and when I saw him i felt a cold chill run down my spine and i got this feeling of fear/disgust. That poor girl
. . .
Female Alumni
NN was seeing her then and she wanted to break it off with him...
Female Alumni
Does anyone know anything about where he is?
Female Alumni
I would think they have material evidence, right? Track him down and get a DNA sample. Does everyone on this thread think it was the same person, NN?
Female Alumni
I definitely do.
Female Alumni
Yes
Male Alumni
Absolutely
Female Alumni
Sure do think so
Female Alumni
We all know. It sucks that it can't be proved.. What a jerk!
. . .
Female Alumni
I believe NN was involved in Kathys murder.
Female Alumni
I agree completely!
Female Alumni
I am blown away to hear he had scratches on his chest the day after her murder. Unbelievable.
Female Alumni
Just to clear things up on the initials as long as this is a private group. He was always a violent bad creep. Have always heard she was trying to get away from him at the time this happened.
Female Alumni
To clear up confusion.... it can hardly be said that this is a private group. There are nearly 6 thousand KW and KE alumni parents, siblings, cousins etc. in this group.
. . .
Female Alumni
I spoke to a detective a few years ago around the time they caught Altemio Sanchez, the bike path rapist/killer. They thought he may have killed Kathy due to the proximity of where he worked and where her body was found. However, his MO did not match up & he would not admit to killing her even though he admitted to other deaths not previously linked to him. I did not have any pertinent information for the detective that he was not already aware of and I was not with her on that day. I found out about her death when I called her house the next morning & her sister told me she had been killed. I told him about her fear of NN & that he had been stalking her during that time. I remember mentioning DNA, but I have no memory of what the answer was. It breaks my heart that they have never solved her murder; she was my best friend & I think of her, her mom, and sister often. They deserve justice and closure. With all the crime shows on TV, I wish they would have an episode on Kathy - maybe more leads would become available.
Male Alumni
I myself used to hang out at the Agway Grain Elevators. Months after the murder I received a call to report to the Town of Tonawanda Police for questioning. I spoke with 2 detectives on the case one of which was a friends father. I was told that 3 individuals names were a constant among the investigation. The 3 all had "Alibis for that night"! The case is still open and will be til someone gets a conscience.
. . .
Male Alumni
It is so amazing everyone remembers Kathy. I dated her for a while. She was at my house the night before - we talked about getting back together. I was devastated. She was at the house of someone I know that night that lived pretty close to where they found her body. Talked to the detectives many times to try and help find her killer.
She was grounded. She snuck out the night before that and came to my house about 10 PM. The night she died her mother told me she let her go out because Kathy was driving her crazy. She had spent most of the day with her sister. She went to a friend of ours house on Skillen.
Got to know her at N's house. Used to party there a lot. She broke up with him for me. Was friends with him before that. He started showing up after school when I walked her home and causing problems. Almost got in a few fights with him but Kathy was afraid of him.
Female Alumni
I remember one day walking out of school and she was scared to death of NN, I was called in for questioning too....I'm surprised that they don't have DNA or why this case wasn't reopened.
Female Alumni
I guess I didnt know Kathy's route that night. She told her mom she was going to Mang Park. Are you saying she went to a friends on Skillen? And this happened on the way back? Any idea where else she went that night?
Female Alumni
I will NEVER forget Kathy!! Was actually supposed to meet her at the Youth Center (Mang Park) the night she was murdered. We were excited about the night, and didnt think she blew us off so we (can't remember who I was with) started at *advertiser censored*'s creek and walked the Tracks all the way to Snakeland looking for her! When some of us first met her, we used to tease her. for her red hair. then we became pretty good friends...I'll never forget talking to the press and the police....she was wonderful!!
Female Alumni
i remember that night as well! dont think it was me with you looking for her but i remember wondering where she was that night.
Female Alumni
Right? it was some big event...Think was supposed to be at the Wall.but we kept looking.. and if I'm not mistaken, she was talking about breaking up with.....(Female Alumni), did you go to the police station with us, after we saw what we saw at the fence?? there were like 5 of us. me, (Female Alumni), My sis...I looked into her murder in the early 90's, and still they had nothing.
Female Alumni
it was something at the wall. i didnt talk to the police. i dont remember what we saw at the fence? may want to pm that to me. it still gives me the shivers cause were all supposed to be together that night.
(Unknown location for “the Wall” - assuming a location like “*advertiser censored*’s creek” named by the Heads.)
APPENDIX B. NN
Female Alumni
I was thinking NN.....
Female Alumni
we all need to talk....i thought this was solved
Male Alumni
..where and what area was this...was she from the parkside proj....
my father might have been i that case...
Female Alumni
Yeah.... NN... that was what I was told, what I've always thought... and as soon as I read your post here... I didn't even have to guess.
Male Alumni
this happened at the old Grain Mills--Snakeland. Kathy, I believe was from Mang Park area in Kenmore.
It was more than just NN...
Female Alumni
now ya got me trying to remember someone from HS with the initial NN
Female Alumni
Not from high school....believe he was older.
I wish I had proof! Always heard the rumors and seems like I'm not the only one...the same name always comes up. And he was a real dirtbag so it's probably true!
Male Alumni
Who?
Female Alumni
His name was N! I'm old and can't remember his last name for the life of me...
Male Alumni
I know who you mean
. . .
Female Alumni
NN
Female Alumni
NN...I just felt it on my gut whenever he creeped around. I remember spitting on him and screaming at him the last time I saw him in the 80's and calling him a murderer..and the look he gave me froze my soul. My friend pulled me away from him because she didn't want me to be next but back then I was fearless and i just wanted to hurt him bad!!!
Female Alumni
Do you know if the person you mention is still around?
. . .
Female Alumni
I wouldnt want to give NN any kind of heads up...but if anyone does... we shouldn't post too much info... or make it a closed group.
Female Alumni
To clear up confusion.... it can hardly be said that this is a private group. There are nearly 6 thousand KW and KE alumni parents, siblings, cousins etc. in this group.
Female Alumni
I had no idea she had dated him. What was the age difference??? He was years older than me! What a . Now that we're talking about it here, I remember his name came up as a suspect. I worked.at a store on delaware and he came in and when I saw him i felt a cold chill run down my spine and i got this feeling of fear/disgust. That poor girl
. . .
Female Alumni
NN was seeing her then and she wanted to break it off with him...
Female Alumni
Does anyone know anything about where he is?
Female Alumni
I would think they have material evidence, right? Track him down and get a DNA sample. Does everyone on this thread think it was the same person, NN?
Female Alumni
I definitely do.
Female Alumni
Yes
Male Alumni
Absolutely
Female Alumni
Sure do think so
Female Alumni
We all know. It sucks that it can't be proved.. What a jerk!
. . .
Female Alumni
I believe NN was involved in Kathys murder.
Female Alumni
I agree completely!
Female Alumni
I am blown away to hear he had scratches on his chest the day after her murder. Unbelievable.
Female Alumni
Just to clear things up on the initials as long as this is a private group. He was always a violent bad creep. Have always heard she was trying to get away from him at the time this happened.
Female Alumni
To clear up confusion.... it can hardly be said that this is a private group. There are nearly 6 thousand KW and KE alumni parents, siblings, cousins etc. in this group.
. . .
Female Alumni
I spoke to a detective a few years ago around the time they caught Altemio Sanchez, the bike path rapist/killer. They thought he may have killed Kathy due to the proximity of where he worked and where her body was found. However, his MO did not match up & he would not admit to killing her even though he admitted to other deaths not previously linked to him. I did not have any pertinent information for the detective that he was not already aware of and I was not with her on that day. I found out about her death when I called her house the next morning & her sister told me she had been killed. I told him about her fear of NN & that he had been stalking her during that time. I remember mentioning DNA, but I have no memory of what the answer was. It breaks my heart that they have never solved her murder; she was my best friend & I think of her, her mom, and sister often. They deserve justice and closure. With all the crime shows on TV, I wish they would have an episode on Kathy - maybe more leads would become available.
Male Alumni
I myself used to hang out at the Agway Grain Elevators. Months after the murder I received a call to report to the Town of Tonawanda Police for questioning. I spoke with 2 detectives on the case one of which was a friends father. I was told that 3 individuals names were a constant among the investigation. The 3 all had "Alibis for that night"! The case is still open and will be til someone gets a conscience.
. . .
Male Alumni
It is so amazing everyone remembers Kathy. I dated her for a while. She was at my house the night before - we talked about getting back together. I was devastated. She was at the house of someone I know that night that lived pretty close to where they found her body. Talked to the detectives many times to try and help find her killer.
She was grounded. She snuck out the night before that and came to my house about 10 PM. The night she died her mother told me she let her go out because Kathy was driving her crazy. She had spent most of the day with her sister. She went to a friend of ours house on Skillen.
Got to know her at N's house. Used to party there a lot. She broke up with him for me. Was friends with him before that. He started showing up after school when I walked her home and causing problems. Almost got in a few fights with him but Kathy was afraid of him.
Female Alumni
I remember one day walking out of school and she was scared to death of NN, I was called in for questioning too....I'm surprised that they don't have DNA or why this case wasn't reopened.
Female Alumni
I guess I didnt know Kathy's route that night. She told her mom she was going to Mang Park. Are you saying she went to a friends on Skillen? And this happened on the way back? Any idea where else she went that night?
hoover1985
Member
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APPENDIX C. CC
Female Alumni
I'll never forget that day. At the fence. Dude with the scratches on his chest. we went to the Police..
Male Alumni
Everyone I know of who had been interviewed at the time was told by Town of Tonawanda Police persons mentioned "Had an alibi”
Female Alumni
Who had the scratches on their chest??
Female Alumni
NN
Female Alumni
No...his blonde haired friend.. Can't remember his name.. Claimed it was his German Shepherd dog.. That morning at the Fence, before we knew she died.. It was shortly after THAT day, that a group of us went to ToT Police..And even talked to a reporter from the news.
Female Alumni
Name isn't familiar.. I think he was out of HS, but hung out at the fence every morning..I can say, that day, and his face to this day, but can't place the name.. Back then, we went to the police, so they should know.
Female Alumni
I distinctly remember.. didn't look like dog scratches..
. . .
Female Alumni
If I can remember correctly, which is tough these days, his blonde haired friend’s name was C.
Female Alumni
yes there was a C. He dated Sherri's older sister Linda for a long time. Is that the one you're thinking of?
Female Alumni
I have no Idea who he dated, unfortunately. I just remember when I used to practice with my band at ultimate storage he and NN were always hanging around near that area of Delaware and Kenmore ave. They were always together.
. . .
Female Alumni
I was there, at the fence, and he said it was his German Shepherd dog that "ripped him up" Made sure to point it out, before we knew she was gone. There were *5* scratches. Not like 3 like a dog.. I don't remember which went to the police, but we were a group of 4-5...
Female Alumni
So NN and another guy had scratches on them?
Female Alumni
The other guy.. Blonde, abs.. Didn't jive. And about 2 days later, we went to police..
Female Alumni
I was reading the previous posts....the guy C...he used to skate at super skate when I was 12 or 13, I remember him from there
Female Alumni
I remember NN and C always hanging out near Ultimate (Storage, practice spaces for bands).
Female Alumni
I remember NN hanging near there, but not C
Female Alumni
C dated Linda for years. If anyone knows her or her sister Sherry they can probably get a lot more info on C, his last name, where he might be now, etc. He was older than us, that's all I remember.
APPENDIX D. PM
Female Alumni
Just the other guy..never saw N until about a week before/since she died.. I dated a guy in his circle of friends..that's how I met N & got closer to Kathy.. I think he was shot in the head sometime (years later)..P something..no, didn't get rid of messenger, but had to factory restart my phone.
Female Alumni
Hmm P doesnt ring a bell....but it was so long ago
Male Alumni
PM and the blonde guy that ran with them was C. I don't know that I ever knew his last name. When it happened, I told my Mother that NN and these other two low life scum were rumored to be involved in the murder. We called the police and reported it, but never heard back from them. Such a tragedy. I really hope that this crime is solved so that justice is served for Kathy and her family.
Female Alumni
I dont know anyone involved but someone mentioned a few people in this group are deceased. Are those people C and PM?
Male Alumni
PM is deceased. I believe he was shot years ago. I don't know about C. C could have been the person with the scratches, but I never knew anything about that at the time. I just know that they all ran around together. The rumors of their involvement was going around many years ago. Unfortunately, I really can't validate any of it.
Female Alumni
PM committed suicide by shooting himself when I was still at West. C was basically a homeless guy.
Female Alumni
How long after the murder did this P guy commit suicide?
Female Alumni
I honestly don't remember but Kathy was my best friend when she died and i knew both these guys.
Female Alumni
It was PM. He broke up with me because I wouldn't put out!! C sounds right! Sooo not dog scratches! I remember going to the police about that.. I can tell you this.. He didn't do it alone.. How many of them are there?
I heard PM was shot in the head.
Female Alumni
Hi, I'm new to this group, I vividly remember events and people surrounding Kathy's murder....I also knew N, and C, I don't remember him hanging at west during that time....and I knew PM too, he was shot and died a few days later...and I don't believe that either of those 2 hung with N but I could be wrong
(I have been unable to obtain a death certificate for PM – I do not have his death date and available image of the tombstone only lists 1967 - 1986. I do not know if PM was murdered or committed suicide.)
hoover1985
Member
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APPENDIX E. KD
KD: For Kathy.... anything. Not a week goes by that I don’t think of her. Of course I’ll help...No problem. I should have done more. And I shouldn’t have lied. My biggest life’s regret by far.
Q: WAS KATHY GOING TO MANG PARK, YOUTH CENTER THAT NIGHT?
KD: No, she was going to see her boyfriend, I believe his name might have been "N"?
That I’m struggling to remember.
I remember the police being at my house the day after (KATHY'S MURDER) and me telling them stuff that they went back and checked that was correct
PM sounds familiar.
I was told to talk to nobody about it by the kenmore police (tot police? - ED.)
I know that I was right because they came back a few days later and requestioned me about what I knew. Kathy never took me up to military (MILITARY ROAD area, including SNAKELAND, TRAIN TRACKS) with her. She protected me and used to tell me that I was too good.
In the end I didn’t love her enough. I got to have a family and get married. I always feel bad she didn’t
I left west (KENMORE WEST SENIOR HIGH) a week into sophomore year. I just couldn’t handle it.
They (KENMORE COPS) were very serious about it and I believe that is why my parents pulled me out of there. I wasn’t even told it was going to happen. I came home one day and they told me that I was registered in a private all girls schools in the city. And they changed our phone number to really restrict who I was in contact with.
Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK TO KENMORE WEST SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL?
KD: No. I never went back
Q: HOW LONG WERE YOU FRIENDS WITH KATHY?
KD: Middle school. 6th grade on.
Q: IT SEEMS LIKE SHE KEPT YOU SEPARATE FROM HER OTHER FRIENDS, THE ONES WHO WENT TO SNAKELAND.
KD: Yes she sure did. Very intentionally
She would say I was too sensitive or too good
She had a really loving side to her. I remember that. She knew I was kinda broken.
During the weeks before she passed, her mom was calling my house a whole lot looking for her.
Her mom was really struggling trying to maintain any control.
I feel like the boyfriend lived on Sanders (ROAD IN KENMORE).. is that like a block or two over kenmore ave to the
north buffalo side?
Sanders keeps popping into my head. And I’m not sure why
If there is any way to find out if that "N" person lived there then I assume that is exactly who it was
Q: DID YOU KNOW "N"?
KD: I met him once
He was the one who did the thing on her (KATHY’S) arm of the upside down cross.
He was older. Maybe like 18 or 19
Did you ever hear that she was pregnant?
I didn’t want to raise it.
But .....
She told me that she was. I told the police that and that and the cross carved in her arm is why they came back and questioned me more. They didn’t confirm. But they were asking me more about it. My honest opinion is whoever got her pregnant did this and the kenmore police covered that *advertiser censored* up.
Q: DID "N" KNOW ABOUT THE BABY? WAS KATHY SURE IT WAS HIS?
KD: I don’t know
My thought always was older boyfriend didn’t want her pregnant so he did it. I told the police that I thought it was this "N" person however I read or heard somewhere they had cleared the boyfriend because he had an alibi
i don't believe that alibi story for a minute. so the boyfriend, "N"
Q: "N" GAVE KATHY THE UPSIDE-DOWN CROSS TATTOO?
KD: Yes
It looked like he just continuously scratched the skin to make it like a scar
Q: DID IT SEEM LIKE THIS WAS SOMETHING KATHY WANTED, OR THAT SHE ASKED "N" TO DO?
KD: She seemed proud of it
I wish I remembered more
I used to know his last name
Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME KATHY LEFT YOUR HOUSE THAT NIGHT? WAS SHE GOING TO THE YOUTH CENTER IN MANG PARK?
KD: I don’t remember what time she left. And yes she was.
Q: WAS THAT WHERE SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO MEET "N"?
KD: I don’t remember if she told me where she was meeting him
I believe he had said he met her and then they went separate ways and he had an alibi
Q: KRC SAID HE AND KATHY WERE AT AN ADDRESS ON SKILLEN STREET THE NIGHT KATHY WAS MURDERED.
KD: Hmmmmm name slightly familiar, did he go to west?
Skillen I believe is close to Sanders, isn’t It? Ok... so right neighborhood
She was troubled. But kind and loving to her friends. She had a silly laugh. She never wanted to go home.
KD: For Kathy.... anything. Not a week goes by that I don’t think of her. Of course I’ll help...No problem. I should have done more. And I shouldn’t have lied. My biggest life’s regret by far.
Q: WAS KATHY GOING TO MANG PARK, YOUTH CENTER THAT NIGHT?
KD: No, she was going to see her boyfriend, I believe his name might have been "N"?
That I’m struggling to remember.
I remember the police being at my house the day after (KATHY'S MURDER) and me telling them stuff that they went back and checked that was correct
PM sounds familiar.
I was told to talk to nobody about it by the kenmore police (tot police? - ED.)
I know that I was right because they came back a few days later and requestioned me about what I knew. Kathy never took me up to military (MILITARY ROAD area, including SNAKELAND, TRAIN TRACKS) with her. She protected me and used to tell me that I was too good.
In the end I didn’t love her enough. I got to have a family and get married. I always feel bad she didn’t
I left west (KENMORE WEST SENIOR HIGH) a week into sophomore year. I just couldn’t handle it.
They (KENMORE COPS) were very serious about it and I believe that is why my parents pulled me out of there. I wasn’t even told it was going to happen. I came home one day and they told me that I was registered in a private all girls schools in the city. And they changed our phone number to really restrict who I was in contact with.
Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK TO KENMORE WEST SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL?
KD: No. I never went back
Q: HOW LONG WERE YOU FRIENDS WITH KATHY?
KD: Middle school. 6th grade on.
Q: IT SEEMS LIKE SHE KEPT YOU SEPARATE FROM HER OTHER FRIENDS, THE ONES WHO WENT TO SNAKELAND.
KD: Yes she sure did. Very intentionally
She would say I was too sensitive or too good
She had a really loving side to her. I remember that. She knew I was kinda broken.
During the weeks before she passed, her mom was calling my house a whole lot looking for her.
Her mom was really struggling trying to maintain any control.
I feel like the boyfriend lived on Sanders (ROAD IN KENMORE).. is that like a block or two over kenmore ave to the
north buffalo side?
Sanders keeps popping into my head. And I’m not sure why
If there is any way to find out if that "N" person lived there then I assume that is exactly who it was
Q: DID YOU KNOW "N"?
KD: I met him once
He was the one who did the thing on her (KATHY’S) arm of the upside down cross.
He was older. Maybe like 18 or 19
Did you ever hear that she was pregnant?
I didn’t want to raise it.
But .....
She told me that she was. I told the police that and that and the cross carved in her arm is why they came back and questioned me more. They didn’t confirm. But they were asking me more about it. My honest opinion is whoever got her pregnant did this and the kenmore police covered that *advertiser censored* up.
Q: DID "N" KNOW ABOUT THE BABY? WAS KATHY SURE IT WAS HIS?
KD: I don’t know
My thought always was older boyfriend didn’t want her pregnant so he did it. I told the police that I thought it was this "N" person however I read or heard somewhere they had cleared the boyfriend because he had an alibi
i don't believe that alibi story for a minute. so the boyfriend, "N"
Q: "N" GAVE KATHY THE UPSIDE-DOWN CROSS TATTOO?
KD: Yes
It looked like he just continuously scratched the skin to make it like a scar
Q: DID IT SEEM LIKE THIS WAS SOMETHING KATHY WANTED, OR THAT SHE ASKED "N" TO DO?
KD: She seemed proud of it
I wish I remembered more
I used to know his last name
Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME KATHY LEFT YOUR HOUSE THAT NIGHT? WAS SHE GOING TO THE YOUTH CENTER IN MANG PARK?
KD: I don’t remember what time she left. And yes she was.
Q: WAS THAT WHERE SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO MEET "N"?
KD: I don’t remember if she told me where she was meeting him
I believe he had said he met her and then they went separate ways and he had an alibi
Q: KRC SAID HE AND KATHY WERE AT AN ADDRESS ON SKILLEN STREET THE NIGHT KATHY WAS MURDERED.
KD: Hmmmmm name slightly familiar, did he go to west?
Skillen I believe is close to Sanders, isn’t It? Ok... so right neighborhood
She was troubled. But kind and loving to her friends. She had a silly laugh. She never wanted to go home.
hoover1985
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ITEMS FROM MEETING WITH POLICE DETECTIVE R.E. KATHY HEROLD MURDER ON JULY 14, 2020
The detective I met with on July 14, 2020, basically did not confirm or deny much of anything about the Kathy Herold murder in 1985. He did make these statements.
1. "NN" still lived in the jurisdiction, or had until quite recently. The only encounters that the detective had with "N" were over "domestic disputes". Detective did not mention whether violence or abuse by "NN" figured in these police calls, but seemed to imply that "NN"'s crimes were small-time and did not include murder.
2. Detective stated directly that the suicide/murder of "PM" had nothing to do with Kathy Herold's murder, and was certainly not done out of guilt by "PM" or as revenge or to quiet "PM" from disclosing information about Kathy Herold's murder. Despite stating this, detective would not confirm/deny whether "PM" committed suicide or was murdered.
3. Detective stated vehemently that the Town of Tonawanda police assigned to the case in 1985 did the best they possibly could with what they had, and were not inept, lost information or purposefully did not pursue Kathy Herold's murderer to their full extent. Detective stated that the "protected individual" theory was garbage and that there was no way, even in 1985, to dispose of evidence on this case even if an officer wished to do so.
And this was not a statement, but was interesting in its omission: writer and detective discussed all three suspects in general at length, and detective made the previous specific statements noted about "NN" and "PM". However, detective never mentioned "CC" either to condemn him or exonerate him. Even when writer actually asked about "CC" detective changed the subject. This omission may be meaningful or meaningless; writer has no way of knowing.
The detective I met with on July 14, 2020, basically did not confirm or deny much of anything about the Kathy Herold murder in 1985. He did make these statements.
1. "NN" still lived in the jurisdiction, or had until quite recently. The only encounters that the detective had with "N" were over "domestic disputes". Detective did not mention whether violence or abuse by "NN" figured in these police calls, but seemed to imply that "NN"'s crimes were small-time and did not include murder.
2. Detective stated directly that the suicide/murder of "PM" had nothing to do with Kathy Herold's murder, and was certainly not done out of guilt by "PM" or as revenge or to quiet "PM" from disclosing information about Kathy Herold's murder. Despite stating this, detective would not confirm/deny whether "PM" committed suicide or was murdered.
3. Detective stated vehemently that the Town of Tonawanda police assigned to the case in 1985 did the best they possibly could with what they had, and were not inept, lost information or purposefully did not pursue Kathy Herold's murderer to their full extent. Detective stated that the "protected individual" theory was garbage and that there was no way, even in 1985, to dispose of evidence on this case even if an officer wished to do so.
And this was not a statement, but was interesting in its omission: writer and detective discussed all three suspects in general at length, and detective made the previous specific statements noted about "NN" and "PM". However, detective never mentioned "CC" either to condemn him or exonerate him. Even when writer actually asked about "CC" detective changed the subject. This omission may be meaningful or meaningless; writer has no way of knowing.