CO - Madison Pappas, 21 mos, stabbed to death, Aurora, 29 Oct 2005 Insanity

mysteriew · Oct 30, 2005

A woman was being held on suspicion of first-degree murder Saturday in the stabbing death of her 21-month-old granddaughter, police said.
Carol Lynn Pappas, 52, called 911 around noon Saturday to say a baby had been stabbed at her home, police said.

Officers and firefighters found a young girl suffering from several stab wounds in a bedroom.
http://www.lovelandfyi.com/region-story.asp?ID=2684

A 52-year-old woman was arrested on murder charges Saturday night after she allegedly butchered her toddler granddaughter and picked up a phone with bloodstained hands to call police.

Officers who responded to the gruesome scene at 17553 E. LaSalle Drive were devastated. The Police Department was offering the officers counseling.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3165560

aussiegran · Oct 30, 2005

The poor little thing ,this is so tragic,I feel so terrible for her parents .I dont understand how any grandmother could do this,mentally ill or not ,my beautiful grandchildren are my life .I cry if they skin their knees .

lilpony · Oct 30, 2005

Omg, that is horrible. It made me sick reading this. When I read the story, I was like why would the parents leave the baby alone with the grandmother. The way some neighbors described the grandmother, she is nuts. Unbelievable the parents of this baby would leave her along the gm. They had to know, that the GM had major problems. So sad, I can't even imagine.

kahskye · Oct 31, 2005

This is so sad. My heart goes out to the parents. It sounds like the mother was really involed in her little girl's life. So sad, for whatever reason, she left the toddler home w/ the grandmother. I'm sure that will haunt her forever.

Norma · Oct 31, 2005

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4199907,00.html

On Sunday morning, police were still conducting an investigation inside the home. Shortly after Johner placed her flowers, detectives emerged from the house and loaded a bloodstained, full-sized mattress into an evidence van.

Herrera said police officers who responded to the scene also are having a hard time coming to grips with what they saw. One veteran officer who declined to be identified said it was the worst crime scene he had witnessed since the 1993 slayings of four people inside a Chuck E. Cheese's restaurant.

Herrera said police officers and firefighters who responded to the scene Saturday were offered counseling.

"As police officers, we're expected to respond to homicide scenes. What makes this one exceptionally difficult is you have a grandmother who was caring for the child and who allegedly stabbed her to death. That's what makes it hard to take."

Norma · Oct 31, 2005

This is truly heartbreaking. As followers of crime, I think that we're getting use to the fact that parent's may kill their children. But the thoughts of a grandmother killing - it's just too much to comprehend.

I still don't find refererence as to who's mother she was (like it makes a difference).

MsPooh · Oct 31, 2005

Pook said:
This is truly heartbreaking. As followers of crime, I think that we're getting use to the fact that parent's may kill their children. But the thoughts of a grandmother killing - it's just too much to comprehend.

I still don't find refererence as to who's mother she was (like it makes a difference).

The article said she lived with her son and his wife..this woman is a monster!

mysteriew · Oct 31, 2005

A barefoot neighbor walked across the street Sunday morning and left a bunch of pink carnations on the front lawn of a home where police the day before had arrested a woman in the fatal stabbing of her 21- month-old granddaughter.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4199907,00.html

The Grandmother accused of stabbing her 21-month-old granddaughter to death was advised of the charges against her Monday morning.

Carol Lynn Pappas, 52, appeared in Arapahoe County District Court for the hearing. She faces a charge of murder in the first degree.

Police said Pappas called 911 around noon Saturday to say a baby had been stabbed at her home, police said.

Officers and firefighters found a young girl suffering from several stab wounds in a bedroom. She was pronounced dead at the scene. The girl's name was not released.
http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_304133852.html

An Aurora woman accused of stabbing her 21-month-old granddaughter to death appeared in court Monday morning to be advised of the first-degree murder charge she faces.

Police say 52-year-old Carol Lynn Pappas called 911 Saturday to report the stabbing. When officers arrived at her home, she at first refused to open the front door but when she did, they found that her hands were covered with blood and she was still holding a cordless phone, Aurora police said.

Pappas lived at the house, located in the 17500 block of East LaSalle Drive, with her son, Nicholas; daughter-in-law, Jessica; her granddaughter; and a roommate. Investigators believe Pappas and her granddaughter were the only ones in the home when police arrived.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5212553/detail.html

Belinda · Apr 23, 2010

Amid the family's fury, a judge says that Carol Pappas was insane when she attacked her granddaughter with a knife.

By Kieran Nicholson
Denver Post Staff Writer
Posted: 02/23/2007 02:56:51 PM MST
Updated: 02/23/2007 10:42:43 PM MST

Carol Pappas, accused of stabbing her 21-month-old granddaughter, was charged with murder on Nov. 3, 2005. (Post archive)Centennial - A woman who killed her toddler granddaughter by stabbing her 62 times with a butcher knife was ruled not guilty by reason of insanity Friday after the grandmother's family vented their fury at her in court.

"Look at me! Look at me, you (expletive)," Nicholas Pappas, the slain girl's father, screamed at his mother, Carol Lynn Pappas, before the judge's ruling. She kept her head down, refusing to look her son in the eyes.

Nicholas Pappas, still screaming, was rushed by sheriff's deputies and a police officer. Subdued and handcuffed, he was taken from the courtroom.

More at link. I feel so bad for these poor people.

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_5290648

kbl8201 · Apr 23, 2010

must be nice to kill a toddler and get away with it.

she'll have to answer to god for it one day

southernbrunette · Apr 23, 2010

Oh my that poor father, I feel so awful for him.

southernbrunette · Apr 23, 2010

Whoa, wtf? She's found guilty by reason of insanity for being manic depressive and bipolar!! How does that make her insane?! I've been bipolar and depressed for a few years now. I have many family members who deal with the same thing. We take our meds and deal with it. In fact I haven't been able to take my meds because of pregnancy but my GOD, I am NOT insane and it makes me so mad to see people get away with heinous crimes and cite those illnesses as their reasons! Is there just different levels of depression/bi polar that I'm not aware of? Help me understand this please. I've never even been in a fight, I can't imagine hurting someone - anyone - unless it was necessary to save the life of someone else! When I see people use that as an excuse - and get away with it - it makes me afraid to even admit my illness because I don't want to be in anyway likened or associated with such atrocities! LOTS of people are depressed, and lots of people are bipolar!! That doesn't make them criminals or MONSTERS - which is the nicest word I can think of to describe this "grandmother"!

Her own children think this verdict is unjust, that speaks volumes! How unfair for this baby to die such a horrific death and not even have anyone to answer for it. This is so heartbreaking. That woman is not insane. I was expecting the article to at least say she was on PCP or something, but no. Depressed and bipolar is not at all a reason to stab a 21 month old with a butcher knife! My God!

ella971 · Apr 23, 2010

I have a question. If a person who is not taking medicine for being Bi-polar and has a psychotic episode can this person be assumed as being insane? TIA

Filly · Apr 23, 2010

ella971 said:
I have a question. If a person who is not taking medicine for being Bi-polar and has a psychotic episode can this person be assumed as being insane? TIA

Legally? I'm not sure ella. Here's a link that may help.

To me any woman that stabs a little child like that with a butcher knife let alone her own kin has to be insane. I'm not agreeing with the verdict, but nothing says bat s*it crazy like murdering your own sweet grandbaby and so violently veteran cops are traumatized.

http://karisable.com/crmh.htm

southernbrunette · Apr 23, 2010

ella971 said:
I have a question. If a person who is not taking medicine for being Bi-polar and has a psychotic episode can this person be assumed as being insane? TIA

That's a good question, but wouldn't it also be their fault for not taking their meds?

OT, I cannot take my meds right now due to pregnancy and I am not a doctor obviously, but I thought bipolar just simply meant you had mood swings and manic episodes where you may lash out? That's why I've been taking Abilify for a few years now, to control my mood swings and occasional manic episodes. I don't see how - unless there's just different levels of bipolar - having mood swings equates having psychotic episodes. To me, psychotic episodes and "insanity" would mean losing your mind and not comprehending what you're doing, as if you're under the influence of drugs like PCP or something..that's what I've always imagined would be the only cause for an insanity plea. I don't see how you can use "by reason of insanity" for mood swings..? Someone help me out here!

zadari · Apr 23, 2010

im speechless at this... dear god

that poor sweet baby.. i dont understand how or why?

Beyond Belief · Apr 23, 2010

Shes definitely insane. What a horrible thing for this family to have to deal with.

kbl8201 · Apr 24, 2010

if she was insane cause she refused to take her meds that means she's guilty imo

Belinda · Apr 24, 2010

I have to say that I'm just not seeing this whole bi-polar murderer baloney. My daughter is severely bi-polar. She is also not medicated, due to the fact that we finally realized that the meds were making her much worse, not better for some reason. She struggles greatly, there is no doubt. Would she even remotely stab a baby 62 times? No. Way. I just don't see bi-polar as a murderous type illness. Had she been diagnosed as schizophrenic, I could have bought that. I'm very confused by this ruling.

southernbrunette · Apr 24, 2010

Belinda said:
I have to say that I'm just not seeing this whole bi-polar murderer baloney. My daughter is severely bi-polar. She is also not medicated, due to the fact that we finally realized that the meds were making her much worse, not better for some reason. She struggles greatly, there is no doubt. Would she even remotely stab a baby 62 times? No. Way. I just don't see bi-polar as a murderous type illness. Had she been diagnosed as schizophrenic, I could have bought that. I'm very confused by this ruling.

Thank you! ITA

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CO - Madison Pappas, 21 mos, stabbed to death, Aurora, 29 Oct 2005 Insanity