Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #3 *P. Hernandez guilty*

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That Friday, May 25, 1979, 6-year-old Etan, wearing his favorite Eastern Air Lines Future Flight Captain hat, had vanished somewhere in the two short blocks between his Prince Street home and the West Broadway school-bus stop.

It was the first time his parents had let him walk the route alone, a decision they’d agonized over. (
Other kids are allowed, Etan had said. Why not me?) His school never alerted the Patzes to Etan’s absence, and it wasn’t until 3:30 p.m., when he hadn’t returned, that Julie called their neighbors, wondering if he might be with a friend. Twenty minutes later she called the police.

http://nymag.com/news/features/56441/

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Prosecutors will take another swing at securing a conviction in the infamous Etan Patz case when the retrial begins Sept. 12.

The first case against Pedro Hernandez — the 55-year-old former Soho bodega clerk who confessed to strangling the 6-year-old in 1979 — ended in a mistrial last year when a lone juror refused to convict.
http://thevillager.com/2016/08/18/etan-patz-retrial-set-to-start/
 
Wow, one juror. :(

I wish they would/ could interview that person. My daughter has a '' friend'' who was in Ricker's I am going to see if he heard anything. Drug charges . He is not there any more but he was until last year.
 
Here's an interview with the one holdout from the first trial:

[video=youtube;u9HSO2Ho3rM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9HSO2Ho3rM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9HSO2Ho3rM[/video]
 
It was somewhat surprising that an articulate, apparently moral and intelligent person was the hold-out jury member in this case, gives one pause, imo.
 
I have been following this case for a while, but havent posted on this thread. I still think George Ramos is the guy. Didn't he already admit to molesting Etan, then supposedly putting him on a train to Washington Heights? I don't think this Pablo guy did it. Without any sexual intent it doesn't seem plausible. What does everything else think?
 
I have been following this case for a while, but havent posted on this thread. I still think George Ramos is the guy. Didn't he already admit to molesting Etan, then supposedly putting him on a train to Washington Heights? I don't think this Pablo guy did it. Without any sexual intent it doesn't seem plausible. What does everything else think?
I doubt it was Ramos; possibly Andre (Cropsey) Rand; wasn't Hernandez. But I really think the perp will always remain unknown, and is probably none of the three.
 
I doubt it was Ramos; possibly Andre (Cropsey) Rand; wasn't Hernandez. But I really think the perp will always remain unknown, and is probably none of the three.
Why do you say that it wasn't Hernandez? Most false confessions are easily disproved. In this case, it turns out that the person admitting guilt had the opportunity to commit the crime and the means to dispose of the body.
Etan Patz's body may well be buried deep in a landfill. How many missing people would be found if we were to sift through all of the nation's landfills?
 
Why do you say that it wasn't Hernandez? Most false confessions are easily disproved. In this case, it turns out that the person admitting guilt had the opportunity to commit the crime and the means to dispose of the body.
Etan Patz's body may well be buried deep in a landfill. How many missing people would be found if we were to sift through all of the nation's landfills?
from CNN; Hernandez juror Adam Sirois:

There were four main factors that prevented me from voting Hernandez guilty:

• First, the vulnerability of Hernandez to make a false confession and form a false belief about his association with the event.

• Second, the weakness of the evidence presented by the prosecution outside of the confessions.

• Third, the possibility that Jose Ramos committed the crime. Ramos is a convicted pedophile. He has denied involvement in Etan's disappearance. But he dated the woman who walked Etan home from a bus stop during the weeks leading up to his disappearance. Ramos was also sexually abusing this woman's son, who was in a play group with Etan at the Patz residence. Ramos admitted to a federal attorney that he was 90% certain that he had tried to abuse Etan on the morning of May 25, 1979, but that he had sent him to his aunt's home in Washington Heights on the subway. But the Patz family has no relatives in Washington Heights.

• And fourth, the fact that Hernandez has never committed any violent crime, before or after May 25, 1979.

Furthermore, there were three important pieces of evidence that were either not admissible or not presented in court, so we never heard about them until after the trial.

• The prosecutor told all of us in the deliberation room after the trial that in 1979, New York City's SoHo neighborhood had hundreds of pedophiles. However, in court the prosecutor made the case that SoHo was a much safer place, where children could play in the street.

• The prosecutor also told us that the reason for the excavation at a basement near the Patz home in 2012 was to follow up on information they found that Othniel Miller had abused children. In court, the prosecutor said that Miller was a friendly neighbor and that Etan would work with him in his basement. It is Miller who gave Etan the dollar he would use the next morning to buy the soda he had wanted. Had we been told that Miller was accused of pedophilia by his ex-wife (though never convicted), we may have had different opinions about the likelihood of Hernandez committing the crime. Miller has denied his ex-wife's accusation. He has also denied involvement in Patz's disappearance.

• And finally, the fact that Stan Patz, Etan's father, had pursued Ramos for decades and was awarded $2 million in a civil suit was a critical piece of evidence that we did not hear in court. While my heart goes out to the Patz family, it would have been very helpful to have known about this fact.
---
more at the link
 
from CNN; Hernandez juror Adam Sirois:

more at the link

What about the fact that Hernandez quit his job at the bodega the day after Etan disappeared and moved to NJ--for no apparent reason--taking a 70% pay cut?

The juror's points may amount to reasonable doubt, but they certainly don't exonerate Hernandez. I'll concede that Ramos is just as strong of a suspect. Miller...naah.
 
What about the fact that Hernandez quit his job at the bodega the day after Etan disappeared and moved to NJ--for no apparent reason--taking a 70% pay cut?

The juror's points may amount to reasonable doubt, but they certainly don't exonerate Hernandez. I'll concede that Ramos is just as strong of a suspect. Miller...naah.
I'm sorta partial to Miller, the underdog here; but really I just don't think any of those named -- the ones we know, at least -- took EP. Unremarkably dressed person comfortable in his stride, out cruising a borough other than his own, nondescript but well-kept auto parked unobtrusively on a side street nearby? Bingo. An unremarkable man, comfortable in his skin, took Etan.
 
I'm sorta partial to Miller, the underdog here; but really I just don't think any of those named -- the ones we know, at least -- took EP. Unremarkably dressed person comfortable in his stride, out cruising a borough other than his own, nondescript but well-kept auto parked unobtrusively on a side street nearby? Bingo. An unremarkable man, comfortable in his skin, took Etan.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Etan disappeared fairly early in the morning, right? It seems like a stranger dragging a kid into a car would have been noticed in such a heavily poulated neighborhood. It seems more likely that he was lured into a building and that he left in a trash bag or cardboard box--which is why the bodega worker's story fits. The evidence against Ramos is compelling enough to make convicting Hernandez or any other suspect all but impossible (in fact, I'm surprised there was only one holdout), and Hernandez's confession, even if it's false, will make it all but impossible to charge Ramos.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Etan disappeared fairly early in the morning, right? It seems like a stranger dragging a kid into a car would have been noticed in such a heavily poulated neighborhood. It seems more likely that he was lured into a building and that he left in a trash bag or cardboard box--which is why the bodega worker's story fits. The evidence against Ramos is compelling enough to make convicting Hernandez or any other suspect all but impossible (in fact, I'm surprised there was only one holdout), and Hernandez's confession, even if it's false, will make it all but impossible to charge Ramos.
It seems more likely to me he was enticed round a corner to see a puppy in a car.
 
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/09/12/pedro-hernandez-retrial-jury-selection/

Jury selection began Monday in the retrial of the man accused of killing 6-year-old Etan Patz, who vanished in SoHo in 1979 as he walked to the bus stop for the first time alone.

Because of the case’s high-profile nature hundreds are expected to be surveyed and then interviewed before 12 are chosen for the new trial. The presiding judge said familiarity with the famous case won’t disqualify potential jurors.

Jury selection is expected to take weeks, and the trial process is expected to last through mid-January.
 
I used to be convinced of Ramos's guilt, but it now makes total sense that Hernandez killed Etan Patz:

Etan had told his mother that he was going to stop at the bodega to purchase a soda before boarding the bus. He had a dollar in his possession specifically for this purpose. Hernandez was stocking sodas that morning and lured him into the basement under the pretense of retrieving a cold one for him.

Hernandez's own brother told investigators that Hernandez sexually abused him when they were children. Hernandez denied that sexually assaulting Etan was his motive because he knows what happens to pedos in prison and he's terrified.

Hernandez lied about that having been the first day he saw Etan to make his "random murder" story sound more plausible. In reality, he probably saw him at least once before while walking accompanied by the hired hand. That morning was the first time he was able to interact with him without an adult present.

When Etan followed him into the basement, Hernandez couldn't help himself and made a sexual advance on him. Realizing what he had done, he panicked and began to strangle him to shut him up. Perhaps he hadn't intended on killing him, so he shoved the still gasping boy into the bag so that he would suffocate the rest of the way; in effect, absolving himself of what he had started.

Nobody saw Etan approaching the bus stop because he hadn't made it that far around the corner to Wooster. The basement was located on Prince St.

Hernandez dipped off to NJ the very next day, even though it meant having to accept a serious pay cut.

Just one year later, in 1980, Hernandez told several family members that he had harmed a young boy in NY. He finally confessed to murder at a church group in 1985, although apparently, no one took him seriously.

Hernandez's mental health began to decline further as a result of living with the knowledge of what he did. His psychological profile is that of someone who had done something heinous.

At one point, Hernandez taught his daughter how to wisely use a credit card, which blows the "low I.Q." excuse out of the water. He might not be a genius, but he's hardly mentally challenged if this is the case. He also had never been fired from a job, which indicates that he has enough wits about him to normally function in society.

Hernandez's ex-wife found a newspaper cut-out of Etan while rummaging through some of their belongings. Hernandez became extremely hostile when she asked him about it and wouldn't give a straight answer.

Stan Patz is right. Hernandez is scared shitless that he actually killed someone and has been trying to get it off his chest for decades, to no avail until now. It's obvious that he did it. Sadly, Etan's body is buried deeply within a landfill, so that crucial piece of evidence will always be missing. Nevertheless, Hernandez ought to be convicted.
 
Using Prisoner Phone Calls to Convict? NY’s Highest Court Puts Critical Question on Hold

In April, the state’s Court of Appeals expressed uncertainty about using recorded jail calls against the accused. Now the issue has arisen in the Etan Patz murder case.

<snip>

BBM

... Now, given the Court of Appeals decision, Hernandez’s lawyers are moving to bar prosecutors from using the conversations in his re-trial, set to begin in Supreme Court in Manhattan next month.

The phone calls at issue were between Hernandez and his wife, made over the course of the four years Hernandez has been held at Rikers Island since his 2012 arrest. Prosecutors used them in an effort to undercut one of the central claims of Hernandez’s defense: that he is mentally ill and susceptible to being manipulated. Hernandez, a former worker in a bodega near where Patz lived, initially confessed to killing the boy in the bodega basement and stashing his body in a box on a nearby street. But his lawyers have said the confession was coerced and that it amounts to the invented imaginings of a profoundly sick man who has been on psychiatric medication for years. Prosecutors argued that the phone conversations revealed Hernandez to be coherent, even calculating, and thus likely faking his mental illness.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...nvict-new-york-highest-court-question-on-hold
 
Welcome to Ws Fancymonger, thanks for the well thought out post!:welcome:
 
Lawyers begin to question potential jurors for retrial in Etan Patz murder case

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/lawyers-question-jurors-etan-patz-retrial-article-1.2819045

The questioning of eligible jurors for the retrial of alleged child killer Pedro Hernandez got underway Wednesday.

About 150 prospective jurors were called into Manhattan Supreme Court to answer questions about their knowledge of the notorious case.

Opening statements could begin after next week.
 
Retrial in Etan Patz Case Starts With a Tough Question: Who Can Sit on the Jury?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/nyregion/etan-patz-retrial-jury.html

For weeks, potential jurors have filled the long wooden benches in Manhattan courtrooms. Some of them said they knew little or nothing about the case that was nearly four decades old, having occurred before they arrived in New York City or were even born.

But plenty of others, many lifelong New Yorkers, said they were well aware of the disappearance of Etan Patz, the 6-year-old who vanished as he walked to a school bus stop, rattling the city and alarming parents across the country who saw the 1979 case as an embodiment of their worst fears.

Lawyers have sifted through a pool of hundreds of people over the past month in an effort to assemble a jury for the second time to determine if Pedro Hernandez, a former bodega worker who is accused of Etan’s kidnapping and murder, is guilty.

So far, six jurors have been chosen. Selection resumes on Friday.

“This is an extraordinarily long jury selection process,” Justice Maxwell Wiley of State Supreme Court in Manhattan said from the bench last week. At one point, Justice Wiley assured prospective jurors, who had been complaining after days of waiting, that the process would “not go on forever.”

“The people who serve on this case, I think, will find this to be one of the more important things they do in their lives,” Justice Wiley, who also presided over the first trial, recently told a packed courtroom. “It’s the kind of thing you can tell your grandchildren about.”
 

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