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  1. #1
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    Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

    Last edited by Coldpizza; 08-31-2016 at 08:20 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by franquerolane View Post
    "He wanted them, i was already running so late and knew I wouldn't make it to Lake Powell by sunset."

    Hmmm...if she went to Lake Powell, there's no way she could have crossed Hoover Dam.Lake Powell is straight up I-17 to Flagstaff then 89 north.
    But elsewhere she talks about Hoover dam.... And we know she pinged north of Kingman. She also claims not to know where Kingman is, lol. Plus, she got gas just east of LV, IIRC. at Mesquite, not a place you'd go through on the way if you'd gone to Lake Powell.

    The Lake Powell detail must have been thrown in to cover up for something like premeditation. "It was just an easy-going-for-old-times-sake trip".....

    And why the heck would it ever be important to make Lake Powell by sunset unless you were planning on camping there and needed to set up a tent before dark? She's piling on the florid.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    TRIAL, DAY 20. DIRECT EXAMINATION OF THE POS, ABOUT JUNE 4TH, BLOOD ON HER HANDS, HER REGRETS, AND NURMI CLEANING UP HER AD LIBBED TESTIMONY MESSES & HOLES IN HER LIES

    -------------------------------------------

    HER CAMERA

    (Nurmi: Why use his camera?) “I think my camera had been put away, I didn’t even take out my camera for that portion of the trip. (same sentence). I don’t recall specifically where my luggage was, but I think all my stuff was in the car at that point, except for maybe my purse. (No her camera, no video taken that day).
    ---------------------------

    IN THE SHOWER

    We were checking out different poses, kinda laughing. We were checking out different poses. It was kind of weird because the background wasn’t that great, but the water was good, and we were deleting them, taking a few more, checking them, then deleting them.

    At one point he was sitting, I was crouched probably a few feet away so that water didn’t get on the camera. I was showing him some of the photos at one point, and the camera slipped out of my hand…..
    ---------------------------------

    IMMEDIATELY AFTER KILLING TRAVIS

    I remember what I was thinking when I dropped the knife. That I couldn’t believe what had happened. That I couldn’t take it back, rewind the clock. I don’t know if I realized all that had happened. I just remember being kind of freaked and screaming.
    ----------------------------------------

    THE DRIVE TO THE DESERT

    What I remember next—I thought I was driving west, because the sun was in my eyes. I didn’t know where I was going. I didn’t have my GPS. “ I hit a lot of stoplights, so I don’t know if I was on the freeway or not. Eventually I was in the desert, and it got dark.”

    (NO part of any route she could have taken out of Arizona had “a lot of stoplights,” except for the approx. one mile on streets she drove from his house to a freeway).
    ---------------------------------------------------

    DISPOSING OF GUN AND ROPE

    “I remember throwing the gun in the desert. The rope eventually went into a dumpster, behind a gas station, I think it was somewhere after St. George, I don’t remember. It was getting light out at that point. Wherever I was parked at that point.”
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    BLOOD ON HER HANDS

    When I finally came to, I saw blood on my hands. I didn’t have my shoes. I was in the middle of nowhere, so I pulled over. I got out of my car. I was really thirsty so I got out of my car and got some water, and rinsed my hands off as well. (Costco bottled water out of my trunk). Put my business shoes on.

    (Did you clean yourself off before you disposed of the weapons? Or was it all one stop?)

    “I don’t remember what happened to the knife. It wasn’t in the car with me.” The gun was when I stopped, the rope was another stop.
    ------------------------------

    KNOWING HE WAS “NOT ALIVE”


    (Did you know what had happened?) I knew it was really bad. And that my life was probably done now.

    (Did you believe he was alive?) I didn’t know, but I didn’t think he was…no, I thought he was not alive at that point.

    Does a part of me wish it was different? Of course. “I wished it was just a nightmare I could wake up from, and to find out he was still the same way.” I still love him.

    ----------------------------------------

    PHONE CALLS, HOOVER DAM, LIES, AND LEAVING TRAVIS A VOICEMAIL


    (After cleaning yourself up, getting rid of gun and rope, what did you do?)

    “I started looking around for charger that I thought I had left… because Matt didn’t answer his phone, wasn’t there… I started cleaning out the car and found it under the passenger seat. “

    I plugged it in. Turned on my phone. There wasn’t any reception. As I began to drive there was some reception, one little bar came on, then two, then one, then none. (Her phone would have been dead from not being charged for that long).

    I had VM’s, I kept trying to check them, but the signal wasn’t strong enough to complete the call. I may have had texts, I don’t know.

    (Nurmi: Why were you interested in your VM’s?)

    I realized at that point that a lot of time had elapsed, and people were probably wondering where I was.

    I realized it was irresponsible of me to go and just hang out with Travis, but when I was with him he was the priority, and everything else went to the backburner. I didn’t know what to tell Ryan and Leslie, and all these people were expecting me. I didn’t know what to tell them. Maybe I’d tell them I got lost. I don’t know. I was thinking all these things….

    (….) So, I finally got to this sign that said Vegas is 100 miles away, and I kind of had an idea where I was at this point.

    Then “I came across Hoover Dam. There was a checkpoint there. I had to stop. They let me go through it. On the other side I stopped again. At this point I knew I was in very deep trouble.”

    I started to think of how to delay the inevitable…….I had messed up pretty badly. (…) I had lots of emotions. (….) I just wanted to die.

    (Adds a bit later--I was actually very scared going through the checkpoint. I thought they would pull me over.. and that…this is it).

    I knew my life was pretty much over, but (I didn’t want anyone to know I did it), I started covering it up to make it seem like I was never there.

    When I pulled over at Hoover Dam, well, I called Ryan at that point. And Leslie, and Leslie told me they had called Travis looking for me. So I thought, oh sheet, they’re going to find a VM. So maybe I should leave a voicemail.

    I didn’t know what to say. At this point I had already told Ryan and Leslie I’d gotten lost, so I thought I’d say that on the VM too. ( LONG lie to try to explain away spending 16 minutes in his VM system).

    I kept driving towards Vegas after those calls. I knew I had to act like the happy go lucky person I always am. That I try to be.

    (…) With Ryan, I just acted like I had gotten lost, which was believable to him because I can be ditzy.

    (Her almost 3 hours of play acting remorse and disbelief she’d done such a thing and that she felt so bad about what she’d done that she just wanted to die is absurdly bad. I’d forgotten how much emphasis the DT had placed on selling the lie the POS was driven to the very brink of suicide by her regret and remorse. Bet that “strategy” came from the POS).


    ---------------------------------------
    HER INJURIES

    I had scrapes on my ankles. “I had cut myself downstairs the day before, well, I guess it would still have been June 4th, before we woke up, before we’d gone to bed, I was getting water in the kitchen and dropped one of his glasses in the kitchen. I cut myself on the broken glass. He didn’t get really mad, he just called my klutzy.”

    When I pulled over to wash my hands it reopened and was bleeding a little bit. It wasn’t a very deep cut, just bleeding a little bit.
    I had cut myself really badly a week before, at work. It was June 1st.

    I remember that because the date was on the photo in (my film?). I told Ryan I cut myself at work.

    (Did she take a photo of her June 4th knife injury and CHANGE THE DATE ON THE PHOTO TO JUNE 1? To “prove” she already had that injury? Hmm).
    Let's see....... gun, rope, knife.....Any signs of a candlestick? CLUE.......

    Way too much Hardy Boys....she "came to", a feature of every good HB mystery. She's backfilling all her lies with details from Hardy Boys....fake alibi construction, happy go lucky, bandaid on fingers as evidence.....She tells the story as though she's some kind of "detective" making sense of clues. Who does she think she is, Nancy Drew or something?

    POS's ridiculousness is brought in even higher relief without Nurms' questions inserted.

    She has a way of doing multiple choice lies hoping you'll pick the most likely one (in your mind) and forget that she's also offered options A, B, C, and D none of the above.

    Has anyone figured out how she managed to NOT get injured very much while slaughtering TA?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocketaccent View Post
    I laughed out loud when I got to the part Napoleon running out the room.
    (I commend your bravery for watching this, Hope.)

    I can't think of a reason why Travis always wakes up after her, other than:

    -She was making that story to conform to time stamps on the nudes which were 1:42 to 1:47, T waking up at 1:00 sounded good to her. She and Nurmi (and even JM) simply forgot about 12:xx text?
    -She woke up earlier than T just so Nurmi can ask her later 'Did you shoot him while he slept?' (no premeditation)

    And
    We all know that flying CD story is a lie.
    To me, it looks like she was trying to describe a situation she may have experienced when she was using his laptop in the afternoon. If it was her, why was she inserting two CDs in T's laptop?

    (When I'm analyzing I always look at both scenarios in my head. Correct camera time and incorrect GMT camera time. I'm stubborn. In my incorrect camera time scenario, Travis was already dead at the time she was fooling around with his laptop. In this case she could have tried to steal some pictures or files from T's laptop, but failed because of the virus.)

    The waking up times. It's possible the POS and DT knew of evidence we aren't aware of that they thought JM might introduce, and were trying to work around it.


    And/or.... Travis waking up at 1pm and sex photos time-stamped just over 30 minutes later make it sound like TA was ready for sex with her as soon as he woke up. Rather than sex with Travis 9 1/2 hours , approximately, after she arrived.

    And I agree her insistence that she woke first was to make premeditation sound less likely. Nurmi was actually very unsubtle on the point, asking her multiple times- "did you pull out a gun and shoot him THEN? "

    About her consistency on there being a virus on TA's computer. It's possible she was trying to account for a lack of activity on TA's laptop, as it likely would have been entirely uncharacteristic of TA not to continually check his emails, especially with an important conference call scheduled for 7. TA typically did a pre- conference call text blast to his associates. Maybe he also did one by email, and she knew the lack of one might seem suspicious.

    It's also possible, IMO, that the lack of activity on TA's laptop and her precise descriptions of TA's disc drive not coming up, etc. may be because she insisted they use HER laptop instead of his, to avoid leaving time-stamped traces on his computer.

  5. #5
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    From H4M's thread....

    FINDING OUT TRAVIS WAS “REALLY DEAD”

    Dan Freedman called me around 11pm (the night Travis’s mutilated body was found), but he didn’t tell me “definitively” that Travis was dead, so I tried to confirm that news.

    Dan told me who had been “there.” (There….as in, at TA’s house, standing outside after finding TA’s body in the shower, body meaning he was definitively dead).

    I tried to call Brint Hyatt, but there was no answer. I called Zach (backtracks mid-sentence) …..I was talking with his girlfriend who didn’t say much. I called Bishop Layton. By then it was about 3 AM. He told me. (Everyone had been told by LE not to speak with her, only Dan did anyway, she’s saying she spent 4 hours on the phone trying to get someone to speak with her).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LE told folks within hours not to talk to her? Wow. Plus, LE had to instruct a lot of people not to talk to her in a short time. Enough people to occupy her for 4 hours of calls? Less than 5 hours since the body was found? Amazing for LE's efficiency. That was also before she called EF, presumably; I didn't realize he was on to her already.

  6. #6
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    From H4M's post:

    “I started looking around for charger that I thought I had left… because Matt didn’t answer his phone, wasn’t there… I started cleaning out the car and found it under the passenger seat. “

    I plugged it in. Turned on my phone. There wasn’t any reception. As I began to drive there was some reception, one little bar came on, then two, then one, then none. (Her phone would have been dead from not being charged for that long).

    I think if her phone was turned off, it wouldn't have needed recharging before it was operable (my phone is always off, and I don't have to recharge it when I use it). If she'd drained it of charge (which is also possible), then it would have had to be plugged in for a few minutes to work.

    She phoned Matt and then, after that, found her charger.....? WOW, big time goof..

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Looks like the POS was given her first prison job on August 29. She's a porter, kind of like a janitor, perhaps? Sadly for her, she won't have a French maid uniform to change into, just her every day orange and her group shared undergarments, and a portion of the $1 an hour of whatever per hour she's paid will go straight to the Alexanders.

    No wonder the comical attempts over the past months to bring in more donations for her commissary. POS must be broke to have relinquished her goddess dreams and to be reduced to actually working for her butt and zit creams.
    IIRC, it was a large portion that goes to the Alexanders, perhaps 50%. Also, any money that is put in her trust account is subject to the same percentage confiscation.

    Aaaaand ,it will likely cost her a whole bunch to buy even a warm soda pop.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by geevee View Post
    This has got to be one of the biggest loads of bull she ever tried to pass off - Travis wanted pics of his Cancun-ready body that he could show to no one because he was naked in his shower and immediate questions of who in the heck took them would arise.

    The 'other pics' on the CD that they couldn't see - of his Cancun-ready body, pics of their trips or failed shaving photo pics? Pick one, you lying murderess, you have have all three.

    Wait on her for what, to edit naked pics in a shower so he could show them to who??? Arrrggg when she tells these stupid tales it just drives me up the bricking wall.

    Thanks again Hope, you have much more strength than I'll ever possess.

    Here's a possibility that ties CD's and shower and more together.

    They had sex (bear with me, sisters ) She had assumed Travis would go straight in to shave & shower, but he didn't. Instead he went downstairs and did everything he could think of to hint to her it was time for her to go.

    She needed to stall her departure, and she needed Travis to get into the shower. She saw the trip CD on his desk, and it gave her the idea to look at trip photos with him. On HER laptop. Maybe she scratched the CD he had out. Or another she did just happen to have with her. Or maybe she just pretended to try to bring up photos until he lost all patience. Running out the clock and as a set up.

    Knowing Travis, she knew he would take that shower before his business call at 7.
    He thought she was leaving or had left, went up to shave and shower.

    She surprised him, his camera in hand, and told him one of her trial story versions -- that she felt bad about not being able to pull up the photos, so she wanted to take some of him in the shower instead for him to have.

    Was the shower door open? Did he know she was taking photos of him before he turned, looking towards her? Even if so, and he did, I don't believe that implies genuine consent.

    No soap or shampoo-- he was almost done. He thought she was gone, there she was AGAIN. This time where he knew that she knew he was NOT comfortable with her being, even in "better" times. He was naked. She was clothed. He was trapped in a small space within a room, within a room, in an empty house, with no guarantee a roommate would be returning anytime soon.

    I find it impossible to believe she was acting normally at that point. I don't think she would have been able to disguise her giddiness at finally cornering him, of having the knife ready, and of Travis beginning to feel afraid.

    I don't believe he knew what was coming, but I absolutely believe that he was more than "uncomfortable at first," and grew more afraid with every long minute she kept up what he would have to have thought was a pretense of taking photos of him naked in a shower.....for him.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Looks like the POS was given her first prison job on August 29. She's a porter, kind of like a janitor, perhaps? Sadly for her, she won't have a French maid uniform to change into, just her every day orange and her group shared undergarments, and a portion of the $1 an hour of whatever per hour she's paid will go straight to the Alexanders.

    No wonder the comical attempts over the past months to bring in more donations for her commissary. POS must be broke to have relinquished her goddess dreams and to be reduced to actually working for her butt and zit creams.
    I don't think she has a choice about working.... The prison warden has got revenge for the whole "maid" manipulation. Sharp cookie: she really knows her inmates.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickshawFan View Post
    From H4M's thread....

    FINDING OUT TRAVIS WAS “REALLY DEAD”

    Dan Freedman called me around 11pm (the night Travis’s mutilated body was found), but he didn’t tell me “definitively” that Travis was dead, so I tried to confirm that news.

    Dan told me who had been “there.” (There….as in, at TA’s house, standing outside after finding TA’s body in the shower, body meaning he was definitively dead).

    I tried to call Brint Hyatt, but there was no answer. I called Zach (backtracks mid-sentence) …..I was talking with his girlfriend who didn’t say much. I called Bishop Layton. By then it was about 3 AM. He told me. (Everyone had been told by LE not to speak with her, only Dan did anyway, she’s saying she spent 4 hours on the phone trying to get someone to speak with her).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LE told folks within hours not to talk to her? Wow. Plus, LE had to instruct a lot of people not to talk to her in a short time. Enough people to occupy her for 4 hours of calls? Less than 5 hours since the body was found? Amazing for LE's efficiency. That was also before she called EF, presumably; I didn't realize he was on to her already.

    Mimi and Taylor and Michelle all fingered POS on the spot to LE. The efficiency of communication wasn't LE's, it was likely the SM grape vine of a large and interconnected community of friends and fellow ward members.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickshawFan View Post
    Were the Talie texts right before the LV trip?

    Was that horny schoolgirl charade the same event with the rose petals in the tub?

    The Talie texts were less than 2 weeks before she went to Vegas. The petalled bath (or, candle lit bath, anyway), was in January, and the bath was definitely HER idea, not his (she texted him beforehand- "I want to take a bath with you. " No nuance there).

  12. #12
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    Marking my spot


    All opinions expressed by me on Websleuths are my very own thoughts, not yours, and are to stay on this website

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Here's a possibility that ties CD's and shower and more together.

    They had sex (bear with me, sisters ) She had assumed Travis would go straight in to shave & shower, but he didn't. Instead he went downstairs and did everything he could think of to hint to her it was time for her to go.

    She needed to stall her departure, and she needed Travis to get into the shower. She saw the trip CD on his desk, and it gave her the idea to look at trip photos with him. On HER laptop. Maybe she scratched the CD he had out. Or another she did just happen to have with her. Or maybe she just pretended to try to bring up photos until he lost all patience. Running out the clock and as a set up.

    Knowing Travis, she knew he would take that shower before his business call at 7.
    He thought she was leaving or had left, went up to shave and shower.

    She surprised him, his camera in hand, and told him one of her trial story versions -- that she felt bad about not being able to pull up the photos, so she wanted to take some of him in the shower instead for him to have.

    Was the shower door open? Did he know she was taking photos of him before he turned, looking towards her? Even if so, and he did, I don't believe that implies genuine consent.

    No soap or shampoo-- he was almost done. He thought she was gone, there she was AGAIN. This time where he knew that she knew he was NOT comfortable with her being, even in "better" times. He was naked. She was clothed. He was trapped in a small space within a room, within a room, in an empty house, with no guarantee a roommate would be returning anytime soon.

    I find it impossible to believe she was acting normally at that point. I don't think she would have been able to disguise her giddiness at finally cornering him, of having the knife ready, and of Travis beginning to feel afraid.

    I don't believe he knew what was coming, but I absolutely believe that he was more than "uncomfortable at first," and grew more afraid with every long minute she kept up what he would have to have thought was a pretense of taking photos of him naked in a shower.....for him.
    TA was a big guy. The shower has been described as very small, and it certainly looks that way from his "seated" positionor the position where he's cowering. He might have been in the habit of leaving the shower door open just so he would't feel claustrophobic.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    The Talie texts were less than 2 weeks before she went to Vegas. The petalled bath (or, candle lit bath, anyway), was in January, and the bath was definitely HER idea, not his (she texted him beforehand- "I want to take a bath with you. " No nuance there).
    What evidence is there that the school girl thing actually transpired or if it was some sort of fantasy act?

    The bath thing was the time they had sex?

  15. #15
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    I haven't posted in a long time. I was at Crater Lake recently and it made me think of Travis. Can some kind person let me know the latest on Jodi? I can't possibly catch up on all the threads. I've picked up on a few things I think... Was she moved? Reason? Roommate? She has a job? Does she have freedom now to be around other inmates? Visitor situation? Any details would be much appreciated on Jodi or anything else going on with the case!! TIA

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