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  1. #1
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    JBR Head Injury

    I have always thought that JBR head injury was viewalbe from the outside. According to LS there is no external sign of injury.

    Many of you may have known this but it's new to me. I have always just assumed there was some outside wound even if very small compared to the trauma inside.

    Most of you have seen the picture of her skull.
    How could this injury not have caused any external damage?
    I know people can get concussions and such but this is a 1 inch square hole.
    Is LS right? Was there no external injury at all.
    And if so how do you cause a 1 inch hole in someone's skull without causing any injury to the skin.

  2. #2
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    Arrow

    It's called a Closed Head Injury, the kind you get from shaking a baby, or a violent car crash...basically you get brain-damage from the brain bouncing around inside the skull. Hard enough to damage the brain-stem, responsible for breathing, alertness and such, and you get death.

    The cells are being battered against the skull, torn, and twisted.
    Last edited by LinasK; 11-03-2005 at 07:50 PM. Reason: add info
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  3. #3
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    A blunt object

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    I have always thought that JBR head injury was viewalbe from the outside. According to LS there is no external sign of injury.

    Many of you may have known this but it's new to me. I have always just assumed there was some outside wound even if very small compared to the trauma inside.

    Most of you have seen the picture of her skull.
    How could this injury not have caused any external damage?
    I know people can get concussions and such but this is a 1 inch square hole.
    Is LS right? Was there no external injury at all.
    And if so how do you cause a 1 inch hole in someone's skull without causing any injury to the skin.
    would cause that kind of injury without tearing the outside skin. JBR was near death when she was struck, as evidence by the minimal amount of blood in the brain. There was a portion of the skull displaced, with an approx. 8" crack in the skull. It was a powerful blow, and they didn't know about it until the autopsy.

  4. #4
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    I've not seen a whole lot about the actual head injury and how it is thought that it took place other than before or after death. Are there any thoughts of the medical examiners on what position Jon Benet was in at the time of the blow? I mean, if she were laying on the concrete floor, wouldn't such a hard blow cause some rebound action and bruising of the opposite side or tearing of the neck muscles due to the force if she were upright at the time?

  5. #5
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    In the autopsy they say she suffered temporal lobe bruising, the same as when a baby is shaken violently. I suspect the perp realized she was dying and shook her to try to awaken her, but it didn't work. IMO, that's when the perp decided it was time to smash her on the head and totally stage the whole scene. Apparently the coroner didn't realize she had the head wound until he removed her scalp.

    I have always assumed she was sitting upright while being tortured, and further assume she was slumped over but still kind of upright when she was struck on the head. If she had been prone, I would expect to see a different location of injury or different injury.

  6. #6
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    A hard blow with say a bat, long flashlight, or similar object gives an effectively instantaneous injury to the head...the same with a fall against a tub, stairstep, etc. Lacerations of the scalp normally occur in that instant as the soft tissue scalp is split between the object and the skull. This occurs because the underlying bone is harder obviously, but also because there is a miniscule but finite time difference between the object striking the scalp and the skull. In this instant, the skull is by inertia a counter force to the blow. The scalp splits between the two forces by simple physics. Copious blood then flows from the highly vascular scalp.

    But that is not what was seen here...no blood, no split scalp. For that reason I have thought maybe there was a type injury in which the scalp was squeezed between the injuring force applied and the skull over a longer period in which force and pressure transferred to and compressed the skull...a pressure that built for a fraction of a second (or even considerably longer), passing to and compressing the skull, leading to a compression split. Examples would be a garage door closing on the head; the head between an inside door and the doorjam when the door is forced as if to close; someone standing or jumping on the head...One other, and I have to rely on a very old memory, was a similar injury when the victim's head was literally placed in a shop vise which was tightened and fractured the skull.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacy Wood
    A hard blow with say a bat, long flashlight, or similar object gives an effectively instantaneous injury to the head...the same with a fall against a tub, stairstep, etc. Lacerations of the scalp normally occur in that instant as the soft tissue scalp is split between the object and the skull. This occurs because the underlying bone is harder obviously, but also because there is a miniscule but finite time difference between the object striking the scalp and the skull. In this instant, the skull is by inertia a counter force to the blow. The scalp splits between the two forces by simple physics. Copious blood then flows from the highly vascular scalp.

    But that is not what was seen here...no blood, no split scalp. For that reason I have thought maybe there was a type injury in which the scalp was squeezed between the injuring force applied and the skull over a longer period in which force and pressure transferred to and compressed the skull...a pressure that built for a fraction of a second (or even considerably longer), passing to and compressing the skull, leading to a compression split. Examples would be a garage door closing on the head; the head between an inside door and the doorjam when the door is forced as if to close; someone standing or jumping on the head...One other, and I have to rely on a very old memory, was a similar injury when the victim's head was literally placed in a shop vise which was tightened and fractured the skull.
    Is it possible the head injury was caused by LE or the CO. Did they drop her or drop something on her or maybe even hit her head on something without knowing or telling anyone?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    Is it possible the head injury was caused by LE or the CO. Did they drop her or drop something on her or maybe even hit her head on something without knowing or telling anyone?
    How could they when they hadn't even discovered her? John Ramsey was the one to bring her upstairs. I don't believe any LE or ME is that careless.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  9. #9
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    I doubt it.
    Jonbenet's body, when found, was carried upstairs by John.
    He placed her body right where he stood in the front hallway.
    Arndt moved her body from there to just inside the living room, at the foot of the christmas tree.
    That is where she lay until the early evening until Dr Meyer arrived.
    Are you suggesting something happened on the way to the morgue??

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    I doubt it.
    Jonbenet's body, when found, was carried upstairs by John.
    He placed her body right where he stood in the front hallway.
    Arndt moved her body from there to just inside the living room, at the foot of the christmas tree.
    That is where she lay until the early evening until Dr Meyer arrived.
    Are you suggesting something happened on the way to the morgue??
    Yes, or at the morgue. All they had to do was drop her one time.


  11. #11
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    Wecht has said the same thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter
    In the autopsy they say she suffered temporal lobe bruising, the same as when a baby is shaken violently. I suspect the perp realized she was dying and shook her to try to awaken her, but it didn't work. IMO, that's when the perp decided it was time to smash her on the head and totally stage the whole scene. Apparently the coroner didn't realize she had the head wound until he removed her scalp.

    I have always assumed she was sitting upright while being tortured, and further assume she was slumped over but still kind of upright when she was struck on the head. If she had been prone, I would expect to see a different location of injury or different injury.
    about the temporal lobe bruising--about the only one that mentioned it. I'm not crazy about Wecht but he's not a complete moron. Wecht theorized the perp may have shaken her after she lost consciousness by the strangling, due to pressue on the vagus nerve, which caused her heart to stop beating. He doesn't think the murder was intentional, but a sex game. He's wrong about JR being the perp, but there could be something to his theory about the sequence of events.

    Strangulation and a blow to the head isn't unique to JBR. For some reasons, other perps have struck out in this manner.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK
    It's called a Closed Head Injury, the kind you get from shaking a baby, or a violent car crash...basically you get brain-damage from the brain bouncing around inside the skull. Hard enough to damage the brain-stem, responsible for breathing, alertness and such, and you get death.

    The cells are being battered against the skull, torn, and twisted.
    It was an 8 inch long fracture of her skull. She hit something hard or something hard hit her. Your skull is pretty darn tough and doesn't crack 8 inches from being shaken.
    The injury just did not break the skin. It depends on what did the damage as to whether the skin breaks.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    about the temporal lobe bruising--about the only one that mentioned it. I'm not crazy about Wecht but he's not a complete moron. Wecht theorized the perp may have shaken her after she lost consciousness by the strangling, due to pressue on the vagus nerve, which caused her heart to stop beating. He doesn't think the murder was intentional, but a sex game. He's wrong about JR being the perp, but there could be something to his theory about the sequence of events.

    Strangulation and a blow to the head isn't unique to JBR. For some reasons, other perps have struck out in this manner.
    Well, he may not have been wrong about JR Maikai. We do not know that for sure.

    A savvy strangler will finish off with a blow to the head to make sure their victim is dead.

  14. #14
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    Yes, he was wrong about JR

    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    Well, he may not have been wrong about JR Maikai. We do not know that for sure.

    A savvy strangler will finish off with a blow to the head to make sure their victim is dead.
    Wecht was influenced by the pageant photos and jumped to conclusions, and he should have known better, since he has a Law degree and Medical degree. Perhaps he has "fat head syndrome."

    The blow to the head seems like the perp was in a rage, to me....or like you say, he wanted to make sure she was dead. I think he underestimated how difficult it is to kidnap a young child--one that was struggling to get away from him.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    Wecht was influenced by the pageant photos and jumped to conclusions, and he should have known better, since he has a Law degree and Medical degree. Perhaps he has "fat head syndrome."

    The blow to the head seems like the perp was in a rage, to me....or like you say, he wanted to make sure she was dead. I think he underestimated how difficult it is to kidnap a young child--one that was struggling to get away from him.
    But, there were those loose loops around the hands that weren't even pulled tightly and there was no evidence of a gag in the mouth to prevent screaming, and the legs weren't bound. I mean, the duct tape on the mouth was placed after death so why wouldn't a perp have just bound her tightly with the tape that he had? I don't see why a kidnapper wouldn't take the time to do these things and be prepared for a struggle. Also, if those marks really were stun gun marks, Jon Benet would surely have been unable to struggle very much.

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