California wants to pull this doctor's license (Battle over Vaccinations)

California wants to pull this doctor's license. Here's how it's sparked a new battle over child vaccinations
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sears-vaccine-20160909-snap-story.html

Dr. Robert Sears is one of the leading voices in the anti-vaccination world, a hero to parents suspicious of childhood immunizations that public health officials say are crucial to preventing disease outbreaks.

So when the Medical Board of California announced last week that it was moving to pull the Orange County pediatrician’s medical license, it immediately set the stage for a new battle in the long-running fight over whether schoolchildren should be vaccinated.

At the heart of the case is whether Sears used sound medical practices when he wrote a doctor’s note for a 2-year-old boy, saying he should have “no more routine childhood vaccines for the duration of his childhood.” In its six-page accusation, the medical board said Sears made that conclusion without obtaining even basic medical information, such as a detailed history of vaccines the boy previously received and any reactions that occurred, before deciding to recommend against future immunizations.

Here is the actual complaint-- 6 pages. Plaintiff Kimberly Kirchmeyer is the Executive Director of the Medical Board.

http://documents.latimes.com/medical-board-accusation-against-dr-robert-sears/

Child hit on head with hammer?

IMO, it will be very interesting to watch where this "vaccination war" goes in California. I predict it will eventually end up before the SCOTUS. The main issue is autonomy of medical decision making, versus the effect of that personal decision on the health and well-being of the unsuspecting public-- some of whom are medically vulnerable. The public has no way to gauge their level of risk of exposure to those who are voluntarily unvaccinated, and carrying communicable diseases.

Ultimately, I think we will have to consider some societal limits, restrictions, and identifiers, to be placed on those who voluntarily choose not to immunize. Along with some level of compulsory disclosure-- as courts found in cases of those with HIV who were concealing that from unsuspecting sexual partners. I know that's very Orwellian "big brother", but I don't know that there is a safe and practical way to accommodate large numbers of voluntarily unvaccinated children in traditional public schools, alongside other children who are vaccinated, some of whom are medically vulnerable. The risk of widespread outbreaks of disease is simply too high-- especially considering the population density in some areas of California. Maybe California will have to consider building segregated school buildings or wings for unvaccinated children, or accommodate them in online classes, or something, to contain the exposure risk of others-- if the population of unvaccinated kids is large enough. The parents of the OTHER kids have a right to know, IMO, about exposure risk for their own kids. Especially medically vulnerable kids. They have rights, too.

That also begs the question, do American children (especially children of wealthy and educated parents) have any legal "rights" to be protected and free from preventable communicable diseases? I could see this as a constitutional challenge. That would be interesting to hear lawyers debate.

I think that the "anti-vaxxers" right to have choice, medical autonomy for their kids, ends with the rights of others to be free from unnecessary and unanticipated exposure to communicable and preventable diseases. This isn't just one parent making a medical choice for their child-- their decision affects others. That's the difference. IMO. This isn't something like choosing, or not choosing, circumcision.

Issues like this really reinforce the idea that ours is a society in decline, IMO. SMH. Sad and frustrating.

Yes, the California Medical Board is definitely "out to get" Dr. Sears, no doubt in my mind. But I also think they are right to do so. They will make an example of him-- or at least force the issues of shopping for, and providing, intentionally deceptive "doctor's notes" out into widespread public discussion.

Very long but very good on vaccinations. Some pediatricins are refusing patients that refuse to vaccinate.

I live in a country now that has universal healthcare. Children are not required to be vaccinated. But if they are not, they no longer will receive healthcare. The antivax movement seems to be all over if it is in the Third World Nation where I Live.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2016/08/25/peds.2016-2146

Children are not required to be vaccinated. But if they are not, they no longer will receive healthcare

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I am not sure I understood correctly. Does it mean that parents are not required to vax, but if they refuse to vax, any kind of healthcare is out of the pocket ? Does it mean that the antivaxer will have to incur any future medical cost entirely out of the pocket, for example paying any ICU, dialysis, chemio stay out of the pocket without any money from the States ?
Did I understand correctly ?

Giucy said:

I am not sure I understood correctly. Does it mean that parents are not required to vax, but if they refuse to vax, any kind of healthcare is out of the pocket ? Does it mean that the antivaxer will have to incur any future medical cost entirely out of the pocket, for example paying any ICU, dialysis, chemio stay out of the pocket without any money from the States ?
Did I understand correctly ?

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I do not live in the US anymore. That is correct. In the country I live in, there will be no free healthcare if no vax is chosen.

Is this policy apply for medically-exempted children, for ex one with HIV ? Or when some vaccines are contraindicated due to immunosuppressive meds ? (MMR is absolutely contraindicated with immunosuppressants, for ex)

I see parents being bankrupt after a stay at hospital for the child because of their refusal to vaccinate !! They might also ask for fake medical exemptions in order to bypass this policy.
So, if their child had to stay in ICU + having dialysis because of HUS after a food poisoning, how much would it cost ? More or less.

I wish my country had a similar policy !

Giucy said:

Is this policy apply for medically-exempted children, for ex one with HIV ? Or when some vaccines are contraindicated due to immunosuppressive meds ? (MMR is absolutely contraindicated with immunosuppressants, for ex)

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I have no idea. Here is something on France and Australia. http://www.smh.com.au/world/french-...ng-to-vaccinate-children-20160108-gm1thy.html

I know this case in France, but thank you anyway.
In France, medical exemptions are perfectly acceptable if you have HIV, or if immunosuppressive meds contraindicates some vaccines (children on steroids cannot get live vaccines as the MMR, it would be fatal to them).

However, if a family loses its subsidized healthcare because of refusing to vax. The child ends up in ICU for a food poisoning, needs dialysis and so forth, how much would it cost in Australia ?
Here, it can easily cost around 3000€ a day, which is insanely expensive.

Giucy said:

I know this case in France, but thank you anyway.
In France, medical exemptions are perfectly acceptable if you have HIV, or if immunosuppressive meds contraindicates some vaccines (children on steroids cannot get live vaccines as the MMR, it would be fatal to them).

However, if a family loses its subsidized healthcare because of refusing to vax. The child ends up in ICU for a food poisoning, needs dialysis and so forth, how much would it cost in Australia ?
Here, it can easily cost around 3000€ a day, which is insanely expensive.

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I imagine there would be medical exemptions. That only makes sense. Are you saying people should have the choice to vax or not?

human said:

I do not live in the US anymore. That is correct. In the country I live in, there will be no free healthcare if no vax is chosen.

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The problem I have with this is the child is likely the one who will suffer for the parents' decision.

Another brief thread from last year:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-vaccines&highlight=doctors+refusing+patients

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-pediatricians-refuse-unvaccinated-patients/

Many pediatricians refuse unvaccinated patients

To determine how widespread the practice of dismissing unvaccinated patients is, O'Leary and his team of researchers surveyed 815 pediatricians and family physicians in 2012. Of the 66 percent of doctors who responded, most said it was generally rare for a parent to refuse to vaccinate their child.

But when that does happen, 21 percent of pediatricians and 4 percent of family physicians in the survey reported that they "always" or "often" dismiss these families.

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bluesneakers said:

The problem I have with this is the child is likely the one who will suffer for the parents' decision.

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The parents do not get health care either,

human said:

The parents do not get health care either,

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It's their decision though. A child isn't the one refusing to be vaccinated - so there's a chance if a kid gets sick (whether related to being vaccinated or not) he or she won't get medical treatment because it's too expensive.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sears-728409-medical-board.html

Sears is known nationally for his unorthodox views on vaccination. He’s the author of “The Vaccine Book,” which includes a staggered, alternative shot schedule to what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends. In a 2015 opinion piece published in the Register, Sears wrote, “Vaccination is important and protective. But it cannot be forced; a parent must give consent.”

He has also criticized California’s tough new law that no longer allows parents to file personal belief exemptions in order to enroll unvaccinated children in school. Instead, a medical waiver must be provided by a doctor.

bluesneakers said:

It's their decision though. A child isn't the one refusing to be vaccinated - so there's a chance if a kid gets sick (whether related to being vaccinated or not) he or she won't get medical treatment because it's too expensive.

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True. It seems to work though. People want their free health care.

human said:

Are you saying people should have the choice to vax or not?

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They shouldn't, at least for the most serious diseases like diphteria, polio, tetanus, tubercolosis, MMR... For the HPV, I am absolutely ok for choosing or not.
The difference is that with diphteria, polio, tetanus, tubercolosis, MMR and the like, there is no alternative as safe and efficient for preventing them (same for leptospirosis btw). While the HPV vaccine doesn't substitute for a gynecological visit, so whatever you do it or not won't change the duty of gyn visit. My doc thinks that after the bad side effects I had, it's much safer not to do the HPV vax for me.
Hep B, ok for it, MMR, ok for it, DTP, ok for it. Meningitis, ok for it.

For the sake of curiosity, I was only asking how much a non-vax parent must pay per day in Australia if the child gets hospitalized in ICU and needs dialysis. I can only imagine that it's an insane amount of money, but no idea on how much.

However, immunosuppressive meds contraindicates some vaccines, like the MMR because they are attenuated live viruses. I want to clarify that it's not a matter of choice here, it's a matter of avoiding life-threatening issues because of the MMR vaccine for specific populations. My question was "would the withdrawal of free healthcare happen if the child isn't vax for a medical reason, ex immunosuppressive drugs contraindicates the MMR ?".
Because if free healthcare is withdrawn for a child who cannot be vaccinated against the MMR because of immunosuppressive drugs, that would be truly cruel ! OTOH, I don't mind withdrawing free healthcare when it means refusing vax in general for personal belief, I am perfectly ok with it.


Currently, in France, only people with HIV can be exempted to be vaccinated against DTP per the law.
Also, not all vaccines are mandatory in France, only the one for diphteria, tetanus and polio, + tubercolosis in some areas and for some at-risk populations.

Giucy said:

They shouldn't, at least for the most serious diseases like diphteria, polio, tetanus, tubercolosis, MMR... For the HPV, I am absolutely ok for choosing or not.
The difference is that with diphteria, polio, tetanus, tubercolosis, MMR and the like, there is no alternative as safe and efficient for preventing them (same for leptospirosis btw). While the HPV vaccine doesn't substitute for a gynecological visit, so whatever you do it or not won't change the duty of gyn visit. My doc thinks that after the bad side effects I had, it's much safer not to do the HPV vax for me.
Hep B, ok for it, MMR, ok for it, DTP, ok for it. Meningitis, ok for it.

For the sake of curiosity, I was only asking how much a non-vax parent must pay per day in Australia if the child gets hospitalized in ICU and needs dialysis. I can only imagine that it's an insane amount of money, but no idea on how much.

However, immunosuppressive meds contraindicates some vaccines, like the MMR because they are attenuated live viruses. I want to clarify that it's not a matter of choice here, it's a matter of avoiding life-threatening issues because of the MMR vaccine for specific populations. My question was "would the withdrawal of free healthcare happen if the child isn't vax for a medical reason, ex immunosuppressive drugs contraindicates the MMR ?".
Because if free healthcare is withdrawn for a child who cannot be vaccinated against the MMR because of immunosuppressive drugs, that would be truly cruel ! OTOH, I don't mind withdrawing free healthcare when it means refusing vax in general for personal belief, I am perfectly ok with it.


Currently, in France, only people with HIV can be exempted to be vaccinated against DTP per the law.
Also, not all vaccines are mandatory in France, only the one for diphteria, tetanus and polio, + tubercolosis in some areas and for some at-risk populations.

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It is interesting that HIV offers exemption from DTaP because HIV isn't a contraindication to the vaccine.
Also individuals with HIV but not AIDs can still be safely immunized with attenuated live virus vaccines. With older children and adults we generally like to see a CD4>200 (with younger children we look at age specific norms). In some developing nations they use accelerated MMR series for their perinatal HIV kids in the hopes that they will develop immunity before they develop significant immunosuppression from the virus. These are countries with a significant MMR burden (something that may also occur in the US with time if the anti-vax parents have their way).

For the record, in the US, all states allow medical exemptions for vaccines. We recognize that there are some children where the risks of vaccines do outweigh the benefits and other children who are not in a position to mount an adequate immune response (i.e. children actively receiving chemotherapy or chronic steroids). If we had good vaccination rates among all children who could be safely vaccinated then herd immunity would protect these children. Unfortunately, at least in the US, with our declining immunization rates we may see herd immunity become more of a myth than a reality.

Before visiting Havana Cuba I was interested in a lot of issues that were health related, being I was an RN for 30 years (still an RN, but retired). In Cuba, Vaccinations are not optional. There is a very low to almost not incidence of Autism or Alzheimer's/dementia. (Consider that all foods in Cuba are grown organically and have been for about 50 years). Another interesting fact is that Acetaminophen is not available over the counter and a prescription is required for this drug. Parents are not urged to give their children Acetaminophen after vaccinations are given as they are here in the US. Acetaminophen is not an acceptable drug to be given to children/babies. After learning about Acetaminophen restrictions in Cuba, I found at least one research paper written by an American doctor who feels Autism is connected to this drug. Not sure there was any follow-up, but would not be surprised since the maker of Tylenol (name brand most recommended by pediatricians) has very, very deep pockets.