The suitcase under the window

Could someone refresh my memory? What was the significance of the suitcase? Am I right in thinking fibres from it were found on JB, hence the theory about an intruder trying to put her it? Was it the case that regardless of fibres being on JB, none of her DNA was found in the suitcase?

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This is a good thread to jump in. Go for it.

IIRC FW said that when he was in the basement he moved the suitcase, looking for glass from the broken window, found a small sliver and put it on top the suitcase.

IIRC The suitcase was usually in Andrew's s room but was moved to the basement during prep for Christmas.

I find it ridiculous that JR would state that the suitcase shouldn't have been there. As if he knew where anything was in that messy basement much less the whole house or where one would store the college kids suitcase when he didn't even live in the house.

Hogwash.

TeaTime said:

IIRC FW said that when he was in the basement he moved the suitcase, looking for glass from the broken window, found a small sliver and put it on top the suitcase.

IIRC The suitcase was usually in Andrew's s room but was moved to the basement during prep for Christmas.

I find it ridiculous that JR would state that the suitcase shouldn't have been there. As if he knew where anything was in that messy basement much less the whole house or where one would store the college kids suitcase when he didn't even live in the house.

Hogwash.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. Also, thinking about that suitcase- I believe it may have collapsed if someone tried to step on it to escape. There was a step stool and a sturdy looking chair right in the same area based on crime scene photos at the candy rose website. we don't see a crushed suitcase because it was a prop. No one used it and FW said on one of his trips down to the basement he moved it. From where to where- Unknown.


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"FW said on one of his trips down to the basement he moved it. From where to where- Unknown. "
Is that true? I knew FW said he moved it, but I always thought we knew how it was moved. I was just coming to ask that, actually, because it's always been unclear to me where it was before the picture was taken.

Maybe I just have cheap suitcases but it always strained credulity for me to think that someone could position a suitcase in that way and an adult man could use it as a step to get out of that little window, period. At least you'd think the suitcase would tip over after the person used it. As a short person who has to stand on things from time to time, a "vertical standing suitcase" is not something I'd trust to hold me up. As for the story of fibers from it being found on JB, *I think* the story was that they found fibers from the blanket in the suitcase (JAR's blanket) on JB. I'm pretty sure that info came from Lou Smit and I don't know if it's backed up by anybody else. That was the basis of his theory that The Intruder tried to put JB in the suitcase to carry her out, but realized he couldn't fit the suitcase through the window and then decided to leave her in the basement. A ridiculous theory, in my opinion. I hope someone else has the details.

Anyway, I'll try to post the famous picture since we might as well have it if we're discussing it!

And actually, if we're going to discuss the suitcase and its possible use as a stepping stool, we should discuss the spider web police video taped as well. More than anything I think that is what convinces me no one used that suitcase to get out of the window. I'll post two screenshots I took of the spider web, a close up and a shot that gives you an idea of the size of the web in relation to the window. And I'll also post a screengrab I made of Lou Smit demonstrating how he would climb into the window from some old post on FFJ (I think). It's hard enough to believe that someone got in the window without disturbing it, but are we to believe they also balanced on a suitcase to climb out of the window and never disturbed it either? You'd think their hand at least would go to that spot to provide leverage to climb out. Here is the video I'm referencing:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

ty DFF
noticed how the paint is peeling off the frame.

Smit tried to link it to entry and exit window as a stool.

Others are using the blanket that contained JAR's semen as some way to implicate JAR in molesting Jonbenet. A blanket that JAR used has his semen on it. Wow, what a crime. He must have done something wrong. (I don't believe that.) He's an adult male. There's nothing strange about finding semen on a blanket he used.

Yes, there was also a Dr. Suess book in the suitcase. The only thing it indicates is...eew! Maybe someone should have washed the blanket before it was repurposed. Some have speculated that it was Dr. Seuss' rare nudity book. This wasn't the 1950's. JAR was attending a liberal school. He had access to the internet and bookstores. He's going to turn to hand-drawn cartoon images for sexual gratification? That's not likely.

Another argument that can be used is that JAR was using Dr. Seuss' nudity book to desensitize JBR to molest her. As much as I want to say, "that didn't happen," I will admit that this sounds exactly what a petofile would do. I don't think JAR would have done such a thing, but this is one of those cases where we should "trust but verify." I have never seen any credible reference to say exactly which Dr. Seuss book it was. If it wasn't Dr. Seuss' nudity book, the desensitization theory doesn't exist.

JAR wasn't in the home during the murder. I have seen some arguments on WS that claim he had set-up an alibi with his friends and was actually in Boulder at the time. I don't have much faith in that theory either. There were too many witnesses around. He also had to fly in to Colorado to be with the family. Credible witnesses saw him.

Finally, it has been argued that JAR talked highly of JBR. I've been known to talk highly of my nieces and nephews. One popped into the world with a leather jacket on his back and sitting on a Harley Davidson. I talked a lot about him because he took after his father, riding a hog across the country and being at home in some rough dive bar. I guess I was excited to have someone who was going to be 'cool' in the family. I always talked about him. His father got the cool and passed it on to his son. I got the dreamer nerd gene. It's nice. I can entertain myself late at night by writing and reading, but I would have loved to be cool too. I really don't think JAR's talking about JBR was an indicator that he was interested in molesting her. If my younger sister was Little Miss Colorado, you wouldn't have been able to shut me up.

I know it sounds off topic, but aside from the suitcase being used as a stepping stool, it also contained other things that have had a lot of speculation.

IMO, the importance of the suitcase is that it corroborates the idea that JR was making stuff up, ad hoc, as he related events to the investigators. JR never knew Fleet White moved the suitcase, placed the glass on it, or looked into the wine-cellar that morning.

Yet both JR and Lou Smit used the suitcase and broken window as part of some intruder entrance or exit, despite BPD Detectives pointing out the undisturbed spider's web.

Since JR has a legend to offer regarding the suitcase, I reckon JR is simply re-purposing it from a prior staging event, i.e. he knows it needs an explanation so alike PR with the size-12's, he decides to be the fall guy, and says he brought it downstairs, from an empty unused room, why?

For me the most telling part is Fleet White saying he never saw JonBenet in the wine-cellar that morning, I accept his observation, she wasn't there, meaning JR moved her into the wine-cellar at some point.

Others have suggested JR moved JonBenet closer to the door but if JR does not know Fleet White has already checked the wine-cellar how does JR know JonBenet needs moved, so to be found, why not just find her wherever she is in the wine-cellar? Also in the A+E show JR said I saw the white blanket and her eyes were closed ..., yet it was dark and dim in the wine-cellar and JR has bad eyesight that's why he needs an airplane pilot, how could he see her closed eyes?

So consistent with some other aspects of the basement is the idea that there was a prior staging and at some point JR decided to re-stage JonBenet to the wine-cellar, along with her associated artifacts, does that not tell you something?

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There's so much I'd forgotten about, like the fact FW didn't see JB when he went in there and the huge spider webs at the window. I'll have to get reading!

If someone came through that window they had to have left fibers from their clothing where their butt scraped the metal frame and left impressions in the debris in the window well.

Iirc, some white, cottony lint-like fibers were found along a basement window ledge inside and seemingly they matched the white fluffy beard material with a Santa suit found in the Ramsey home. Someone correct please me if I'm wrong. Was it a different window?

it is possible that it was HIM desperately trying to get the body somehow out of the house after the cops arrived.got cold feet.or realized calling them was a bad idea.we still dont know wth he did on his secret first trip to the basement.

i dont recall the first officers at the scene reporting the broken window open nor seeing that suitcase there.simple.whoever went down there afterwards did it all.and it wasnt the intruder.nor fleet white.

Blue Duvet and Sham fibers found in multiple places on JonBenet:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...sfromShamDuvet
"A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." This is the lab report referenced in the Carnes opinion: "A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32, p. 68)

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Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Case 1:00-CV-1187-JEC
Carnes Order March 31, 2003


Page 68

32 The suitcase contained a pillow sham, duvet and Dr. Seuss book. These items belonged to defendants, but they have indicated that the items were not normally stored in the suitcase. (SMF 146; PSMF 146.) A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF 147; PSMF 147.)

http://www.acandyrose.com/03312003carnes61-70.htm

Factoid:
A duvet and sham, along with the Dr Seuss book, were in the suitcase located in the basement next to the room where JonBenet was placed at TOD. There is a garrote around the child's neck. Fibers from the duvet are found stuck to the child's private area. JMHO - The suitcase may have held the ligature, also, before it was left behind on JonBenet's neck. The suitcase set-up sounds like a pedophile's kit to me.

If Lou Smit really thinks an intruder would not have a game plan to get their abductee out of the house and counted on there being a suitcase to be used, well he really is a terrible detective

Deadhead_Kay said:

If Lou Smit really thinks an intruder would not have a game plan to get their abductee out of the house and counted on there being a suitcase to be used, well he really is a terrible detective

Click to expand...

That's probably how he got his reputation: the criminals he caught were even worse.

DeDee said:

Blue Duvet and Sham fibers found in multiple places on JonBenet:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...sfromShamDuvet
"A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." This is the lab report referenced in the Carnes opinion: "A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32, p. 68)

---------

Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Case 1:00-CV-1187-JEC
Carnes Order March 31, 2003


Page 68

32 The suitcase contained a pillow sham, duvet and Dr. Seuss book. These items belonged to defendants, but they have indicated that the items were not normally stored in the suitcase. (SMF 146; PSMF 146.) A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF 147; PSMF 147.)

http://www.acandyrose.com/03312003carnes61-70.htm

Factoid:
A duvet and sham, along with the Dr Seuss book, were in the suitcase located in the basement next to the room where JonBenet was placed at TOD. There is a garrote around the child's neck. Fibers from the duvet are found stuck to the child's private area. JMHO - The suitcase may have held the ligature, also, before it was left behind on JonBenet's neck. The suitcase set-up sounds like a pedophile's kit to me.

Click to expand...

DeDee,
Well if its all kosher forensics this just means JonBenet came in contact with said items. From memory JonBenet's white gap top was recently purchased and worn for the first time to the White's?

This is where some investigators questions make more sense, like: did JonBenet bathe before going to the White's, i.e. no duvet fibers if affirmative?

It could be prior staging was undertaken in the spare bedroom, JonBenet was rested there temporarily, or the assault originated there, did Patsy not say she was packing for the trip in that room on Christmas Night?

Why could the sham or duvet not function in the same manner as the white blanket, it looks like part of a prior staging to me?

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So for those of us who don't believe IDI, is the theory that at some point someone put the duvet etc in the suitcase after JB was dead, as part of the staging, or even if one of the Rs tried to take her out the window to get rid of the body?