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  1. #1
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    CBS, the timeline, and digestion

    I'll start this thread by asking a fairly simple question: During the CBS special, what did Werner Spitz say about the digestion of the dinner party meal?

    I seem to recall that he suggested that the pineapple would have to have been eaten after the dinner party meal passed to the small intestine. Otherwise the pineapple would have slipped into the small intestine along with the meal. Is that correct?

    It would have taken the the meal at least four hours, until 12:30 am, to be digested, at the earliest.

    If all of this is correct, I'll expound from there.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick, No Nora View Post
    I'll start this thread by asking a fairly simple question: During the CBS special, what did Werner Spitz say about the digestion of the dinner party meal?

    I seem to recall that he suggested that the pineapple would have to have been eaten after the dinner party meal passed to the small intestine. Otherwise the pineapple would have slipped into the small intestine along with the meal. Is that correct?

    It would have taken the the meal at least four hours, until 12:30 am, to be digested, at the earliest.

    If all of this is correct, I'll expound from there.
    After much searching for gastric emptying / digestive transit times, I recently came across this interesting post on topix written by someone who has been a medical imaging technologist for 40 years.

    "My experience tells me that those pieces of pineapple (no more than they were), would have been going into the small intestine within 10 minutes."

    The Pineapple Digestion Timeline

    “You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.
    - Eldridge Cleaver
    Posts are my opinion, based in part on fact, and are not for publication.
    Link repaired: click for JonBenet Ramsey case images on Pinterest
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  3. #3
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    Well yeah, it digests fast. I know many people with bowel issues who have to consume it because of the quick digestion.

    This is why Paula's "cherries, pineapple, and God knows what else" report is BOGUS. There's no way the pineapple would digest the same rate as the other fruits.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanzz View Post
    After much searching for gastric emptying / digestive transit times, I recently came across this interesting post on topix written by someone who has been a medical imaging technologist for 40 years.

    "My experience tells me that those pieces of pineapple (no more than they were), would have been going into the small intestine within 10 minutes."

    The Pineapple Digestion Timeline
    If this is true, am I correct in my thinking that this would mean JonBenet ate the pineapple about 10 minutes (or less) before her death?

  5. #5
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    Keep in mind that JB may not have eaten much at the holiday party. My kids rarely eat much when we go to our family gathering, because they are too excited about presents and cousins to take time to eat! Plus sometimes they don't like the food.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxy Dog View Post
    If this is true, am I correct in my thinking that this would mean JonBenet ate the pineapple about 10 minutes (or less) before her death?
    My apologies for that broken link.

    Let's try this again-
    The Pineapple Digestion Timeline:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...1C2AUAVTNAV02M

    The thread is from 08/09. The OP is "learnin".

    In her first post, she also states:
    "I believe the first blow was struck no later than 30 minutes after she ate the pineapple."

    It's topix, so needless to say, she does meet some backlash. But koldkase is there giving her some strong backup.

    In another post, learnin wrote:
    "Folks,
    Over my lunch hour, I performed the following experiment on myself. I soaked some pineapple pieces in a mixture of three tablespoons of barium which had a consistency equal to cream. I had to use barium in order to visualize the pineapple in my stomach and small intestine. Not only that, I figured there is a good chance that JBR's pineapple was in a dish of cream or milk. This was done on an empty stomach, like JBR's. I remained standing and walked around in between visualizing my digestive process.
    Here is the results.
    11:36: I began chewing and swallowing the pineapple and I did not chew much, choosing to swallow bigger chunks so no one can say that my chunks were smaller than JBR's.
    11:38: I visualized the pineapple and barium resting in the pylorus of my stomach.
    11:44: I watched as 4 chunks of pineapple exited the duodenal cap and poured into my small intestine. Once in the small intestine, these chunks raced through the first part of the small intestine with good speed.
    11:50: As I visualized my stomach, I saw five or six pieces of pineapple exit my stomach. By this time, (14 minutes) two thirds of the pineapple eaten had exited my stomach. The first pieces of pineapple were far into my small intestine!
    By 30 minutes, my stomach was completely empty and much of the pineapple was already in the second part [distal] of my small intestine.
    Folks, this little girl was accosted within 30 minutes of eating that pineapple! Bank on it."
    Bracket and bold by me

    Note: The AP puts pineapple in JB's proximal small intestine (the first part after the stomach/duodenum).

    “You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.
    - Eldridge Cleaver
    Posts are my opinion, based in part on fact, and are not for publication.
    Link repaired: click for JonBenet Ramsey case images on Pinterest
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxy Dog View Post
    If this is true, am I correct in my thinking that this would mean JonBenet ate the pineapple about 10 minutes (or less) before her death?
    Roxy Dog
    In essence, yes. 10 minutes would definitely be a lower estimate with 20 minutes a medium estimate and anything longer an upper estimate.

    Pineapple being mostly composed of water digests quite quickly. Also you have to factor in the probability that JonBenet was not killed immediately but allegedly lay in a coma for an extended period.

    This extended period if confirmed can allow a time line to be estimated.

    .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanzz View Post
    My apologies for that broken link.

    Let's try this again-
    The Pineapple Digestion Timeline:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...1C2AUAVTNAV02M

    The thread is from 08/09. The OP is "learnin".

    In her first post, she also states:
    "I believe the first blow was struck no later than 30 minutes after she ate the pineapple."

    It's topix, so needless to say, she does meet some backlash. But koldkase is there giving her some strong backup.

    In another post, learnin wrote:
    "Folks,
    Over my lunch hour, I performed the following experiment on myself. I soaked some pineapple pieces in a mixture of three tablespoons of barium which had a consistency equal to cream. I had to use barium in order to visualize the pineapple in my stomach and small intestine. Not only that, I figured there is a good chance that JBR's pineapple was in a dish of cream or milk. This was done on an empty stomach, like JBR's. I remained standing and walked around in between visualizing my digestive process.
    Here is the results.
    11:36: I began chewing and swallowing the pineapple and I did not chew much, choosing to swallow bigger chunks so no one can say that my chunks were smaller than JBR's.
    11:38: I visualized the pineapple and barium resting in the pylorus of my stomach.
    11:44: I watched as 4 chunks of pineapple exited the duodenal cap and poured into my small intestine. Once in the small intestine, these chunks raced through the first part of the small intestine with good speed.
    11:50: As I visualized my stomach, I saw five or six pieces of pineapple exit my stomach. By this time, (14 minutes) two thirds of the pineapple eaten had exited my stomach. The first pieces of pineapple were far into my small intestine!
    By 30 minutes, my stomach was completely empty and much of the pineapple was already in the second part [distal] of my small intestine.
    Folks, this little girl was accosted within 30 minutes of eating that pineapple! Bank on it."
    Bracket and bold by me

    Note: The AP puts pineapple in JB's proximal small intestine (the first part after the stomach/duodenum).
    I haven't seen learnin around for a while now. (I hope all is well with her.) Her knowledge and willingness to use herself for that test is amazing, and it's just as valid now as it was when she posted it. This link should take you right to her post about the digestion time.

    One thing, kanzz, I'm sure with your background you know, but which may have confused others is this: Distal and proximal are often confused because of how they're used. They are used as relative terms. Distal (think of something off in the distance) means something further away from whatever it is being related to. Proximal (think of something that is approximately near what it is being related to) means something closer. The elbow is distal to the shoulder (further away from the body). But the elbow is proximal to the wrist (the elbow being closer to the body). In the digestive tract, the most proximal point would be the mouth where food enters, and the distal point is... well , the opposite end of the digestive tract.

    The digestive process begins in the stomach (for the most part) and therefore it is the most proximal part of the entire digestive tract. From there food empties into the small intestine and then the large intestine. The small intestine is broken up into three sections: the duodenum, then the jejunum, and lastly the ileum. Because of its position at the beginning of the small intestine, the duodenum is often called the "proximal portion of the small intestine." (This is what Dr. Meyer called it in his AR.)

    The pineapple described in the AR was in JonBenet's duodenum. In learnin's experiment, she describes the pineapple chunks as having begun emptying into her duodenum within ten minutes. But her stomach didn't completely empty until 30 minutes after consumption. At that same time, the first chunks had already entered the "second part of my small intestine (the jejunum)."

    So (according to learnin's experiment) depending on how much food is consumed, some will empty within ten minutes while the rest is not in the duodenum until 30 minutes later.

    This was only one experiment, and I'm sure some will (rightfully) say there are other factors that might influence the timeline. But I have no doubt that no matter how much some might try to stretch out the length of time between JonBenet consuming the pineapple and her death, she had to have eaten it after she got home, proving that she was awake and moving around during the time John and Patsy claim she was "zonked."

    All views expressed in my posts are my opinion and are protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as “freedom of speech.”

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick, No Nora View Post
    I'll start this thread by asking a fairly simple question: During the CBS special, what did Werner Spitz say about the digestion of the dinner party meal?

    I seem to recall that he suggested that the pineapple would have to have been eaten after the dinner party meal passed to the small intestine. Otherwise the pineapple would have slipped into the small intestine along with the meal. Is that correct?

    It would have taken the the meal at least four hours, until 12:30 am, to be digested, at the earliest.

    If all of this is correct, I'll expound from there.

    They were at the party for about 6pm. JBR could have eaten her 'meal' at 6:30 - ish, which, if 4 hours digestion is correct, would give her an empty tummy by 10:30pm, roughly the time BR finally went to bed and just a few minutes before JBR's skull was fractured.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    I haven't seen learnin around for a while now. (I hope all is well with her.) Her knowledge and willingness to use herself for that test is amazing, and it's just as valid now as it was when she posted it. This link should take you right to her post about the digestion time.

    One thing, kanzz, I'm sure with your background you know, but which may have confused others is this: Distal and proximal are often confused because of how they're used. They are used as relative terms. Distal (think of something off in the distance) means something further away from whatever it is being related to. Proximal (think of something that is approximately near what it is being related to) means something closer. The elbow is distal to the shoulder (further away from the body). But the elbow is proximal to the wrist (the elbow being closer to the body). In the digestive tract, the most proximal point would be the mouth where food enters, and the distal point is... well , the opposite end of the digestive tract.

    The digestive process begins in the stomach (for the most part) and therefore it is the most proximal part of the entire digestive tract. From there food empties into the small intestine and then the large intestine. The small intestine is broken up into three sections: the duodenum, then the jejunum, and lastly the ileum. Because of its position at the beginning of the small intestine, the duodenum is often called the "proximal portion of the small intestine." (This is what Dr. Meyer called it in his AR.)

    The pineapple described in the AR was in JonBenet's duodenum. In learnin's experiment, she describes the pineapple chunks as having begun emptying into her duodenum within ten minutes. But her stomach didn't completely empty until 30 minutes after consumption. At that same time, the first chunks had already entered the "second part of my small intestine (the jejunum)."

    So (according to learnin's experiment) depending on how much food is consumed, some will empty within ten minutes while the rest is not in the duodenum until 30 minutes later.

    This was only one experiment, and I'm sure some will (rightfully) say there are other factors that might influence the timeline. But I have no doubt that no matter how much some might try to stretch out the length of time between JonBenet consuming the pineapple and her death, she had to have eaten it after she got home, proving that she was awake and moving around during the time John and Patsy claim she was "zonked."
    Thanks, otg - good job! To further simplify the terms "distal" and "proximal":
    Both refer to their relationship to the main mass of the body.. although oftentimes they are used to describe relationship to the head. As with most words used in the medical world, they have Latin origin. Anyway, probably the easiest way to think of these words-
    Distal = away from
    Proximal = nearest
    [source: Distal / Proximal]

    “You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.
    - Eldridge Cleaver
    Posts are my opinion, based in part on fact, and are not for publication.
    Link repaired: click for JonBenet Ramsey case images on Pinterest
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain



  11. #11
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    Thanks otg!!!

    I am reading that thread and wow, Pinker is a POS troll. It's no one's business how learnin paid for the test on herself.

    I think it's wonderful someone took the time and effort to be a guinea pig. I've always felt that timeline made more sense.

    And Jameson? Her posts make me want to pull my hair out. Asheville, NC I am sorry you are stained by her mere presence!!!

  12. #12
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    Learnin here. As you know, I have no doubt that the head blow came any where from 15 minutes to one hour after JBR consumed pineapple. After head blow, IMHO, peristalsis (bowel contractions which push the food along) stopped with the onset of shock. I use the 15 to 60 minute window as a liberal window to allow for slight variations among people. It could have come within minutes of eating as my test proved.

    The ME reported seeing dust and lint on the bottom of JBR' feet when inspecting her at the home before the body was removed. She didn't get that lint on her feet after the head blow so I believe she was standing on a dusty floor when the head blow was delivered. I believe the dust would have come off if she had picked it up previously and then walked around before being struck. Now, was the kitchen, dining room floor that dusty? Possibly, but I opt for a basement room where little cleaning was done. So, I believe she ate pineapple, with Burke, in dining room and within 30 minutes or so, they found themselves in the basement where the blow was struck.

    I have another experiment in mind where I will use a 6 y.o. and it will not require any radiation. I will prove that pineapple will be in the duodenum, of a six year old , within minutes

  13. #13
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    Small dust or lint. Does a dusty carpet release lint or would the lint come from uncarpeted areas? As I recall, the uncarpeted areas of the basement are the boiler room or the windowless room. I can't remember if the floors in the closet were carpeted. She also had a new bike which was probably in the garage because she had ridden it on the patio and in the back driveway. Did she go into the garage or the basement?

    A second source of lint could have been the dryer on the 2nd floor. Was it properly vented or was someone sloppy when cleaning-out the lint trap?

    Would her feet have inadvertently come into contact with the WC floor when she was being handled for staging?

    This brings up more unanswered questions. It would be easier if we could definitely put her walking in the basement at the time of the murder.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBear View Post
    Small dust or lint. Does a dusty carpet release lint or would the lint come from uncarpeted areas? As I recall, the uncarpeted areas of the basement are the boiler room or the windowless room. I can't remember if the floors in the closet were carpeted. She also had a new bike which was probably in the garage because she had ridden it on the patio and in the back driveway. Did she go into the garage or the basement?

    A second source of lint could have been the dryer on the 2nd floor. Was it properly vented or was someone sloppy when cleaning-out the lint trap?

    Would her feet have inadvertently come into contact with the WC floor when she was being handled for staging?

    This brings up more unanswered questions. It would be easier if we could definitely put her walking in the basement at the time of the murder.
    a tiled bathroom floor is a good collector of dust hair talcom powder etc too

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by learnin View Post
    Learnin here...
    Goodness, gracious! Look what the cat dragged in.

    Hello, learnin. Good to see you still kicking around and checking in every now and then. We look forward to hearing the results from any experiments you do.

    All views expressed in my posts are my opinion and are protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as “freedom of speech.”

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