GUILTY Canada - Woman, 43, drowned in bathtub, Mississauga, 18 Jan 2003

A mother's descent into alcoholism drove her two teenage daughters to drown her in a bathtub, court heard Monday as the eldest girl recounted her crimes in dramatic videotaped evidence presented during the first day of their trial.

Life at home for the girl, her sister and younger brother had become so intolerable it became a matter of a choice between "me or her," the girl told a family friend who worked secretly with police to tape the conversation.

"Only four minutes . . .that's how long I held her head under water for. After that she just kept convulsing and twitching," the girl says on the tape.

"It was a solution to the worst situation . . .beside me slitting my veins. It was a way to heal her and end everything."

It's alleged the sisters, who were 15 and 16 at the time, planned their mother's death in January 2003 by making sure she was drunk when she took her bath. Both girls have pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder.

"On these tapes both (girls) are caught confessing to a friend that they deliberately drown their mother in a bathtub," Prosecutor Michael Cantlon told the court during opening statements.

"While their mother was heavily intoxicated, they had her consume Tylenol 3, walked her to the bathroom and helped her into the tub."

On Monday the prosecution played the videotape of the older girl, in which she says she acted alone in her mother's death but that her sister was aware of her actions.

"Me (and my sister) were both suffering so much. It's just I took the initiative, she didn't do anything to stop me," she said.

"How were we supposed to keep living the way we were? It was just so bad."

After the drowning, the two girls went to a restaurant near their home in Mississauga, Ont., a suburban city west of Toronto, to hatch their alibi, court heard.

Neither the mother nor her daughters can be identified under the Youth Criminal Justice Act. The sisters, now 18 and 19, are free on bail and living under house arrest.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1107slain-mom07-ON.html

These teen girls need help. They make it appear that they killed their mother to put her out of her misery.

The older one planned it so carefully......as to avoid detection........plus hey the insurance policy, I guess they did not know the "huge" insurance plan is invalid, but they still got 63K each plus their freedom from their mother.

Apparently to rationalize their actions, as often murderers do, they blame the victim for her own death. A way to heal her.....please......

These girls did this for themselves.......they could have contacted Children's Aid and gotten help from them......or the school, or their Aunt....or..

But since they were minors when this happened, they will just get a slap on the wrist, but I bet the insurance company will want their 63K x 2 back....as the girls profited from the murder of their mother.

These girls are disturbed........I hope they get the max under the Youth Criminal Justice Act which is what closed custody.....for cold blooded first degree murder.......for a very short amount of time.

There are always "alternatives" then to kill a family member......it was really a well thought out and planned murder, big time........

I am not going to dispute that these girls need help and what they did was wrong but unless you have lived that life I would not be so quick to dispute how difficult their lives were.


What that article doesn't point out is the probable scum their mother brought home at all hours of the night from the bar.
You think that is conducive to getting up and going to school?

The article also indicated drug use and this ....The older sister recounted episodes of her mother driving drunk with the children, threatening to plunge the car over a bridge if they didn't behave.

Although I do not agree with the method they chose I understand what these girls went through.
Please don't tell me they could seek help as it doesn't work.

I wonder how much they sought out help, and were denied. CPS is often way, way too easy on parents (or way, way too hard, depending on the random luck of the draw - which CPS agency and agent you get).

Cyber, your post surprised me. You and I normally agree on this things! LOL I think I liken this case more to one where an abused wife finally kills her abusive hubby. I think they need some serious psychiatric help, but I don't wish to see them spend more time in prison than is necessary for them to get some therapy and some schooling and/or job training.

When I was a very young child, my parents were bad alcoholics. Life was bad. We were badly abused. We all have our issues now that we're older and all see or need to see counselors today. Fortunately, my siblings didn't kill my parents because life turned out ok for all of us. Everyone's situation is different, so I can't speak for these kids. I didn't walk a mile in their shoes, and they haven't walked a mile in mine. There must've been some other way out though. Didn't anyone help those poor kids? Geez. That's terrible. I hope they get the help they need and it's too bad the mother didn't get the help she desperately needed.

I can see this case either way - I don't know which is the truth.

Perspective A: A couple of self absorbed teenage girls, annoyed that their alcoholic mother wouldn't give them all they wanted, let them do whatever they wanted, used her alcoholism to kill her and hide the murder. Their motivation was selfish - they just wanted freedom from a parent's rules.

Perspective B: A couple of neglected and abused teenage girls, unable to take the verbal and psychological abuse (unsure if there was supposed to be physical) of their alcoholic mother any longer finally crack, and kill her. Their motivation was that of an abused wife - they needed the abuse to stop and could see no other way of ending the abuse.

Some 11 months following her mother's death in January 2003, the younger sister recounted the events of that night to a family friend, unaware the conversation was being surreptitiously videotaped by police.

"I was the one who mixed our mom's drinks that day," says the younger of the two girls, neither of whom can be identified as they were teenagers when the crime occurred.

Their 44-year-old mother had taken pain relievers containing codeine the night she died, but it wasn't added to her drinks, the girl says on the recording, one of three taped conversations played Tuesday in court.

"We didn't put anything in (her drink). She took (the codeine) herself . . .once we told her to. She was already too drunk to know."

It's alleged the sisters, who were 15 and 16 at the time, planned their mother's death by making sure she was drunk and drugged before she took a bath in their Mississauga home, a suburb west of Toronto. Both sisters have pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder.


More: http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=85327745-ad0c-4ad3-a6c3-3bcfdbd21147

That story above seems a little different to me....

While I could never condone such an act, I can kind of see what might drive a child to such action. My husband lived with an alcoholic mother. While she was never physically abusive toward him, he was neglected, he was ashamed, he lived in poverty ($$ went to alcohol, not upbringing), he watched strange men come in and out of his life -- men his mother brought home from bars. Sometimes the men were abusive toward his mother. His mother was raped once by a stranger from a bar, and my husband was called at 3:00 a.m. to help his hysterical, frightened mother deal with it -- he was 15 at the time. To this day, my husband alleges that had he not owned a large German shephard who was fiercely protective of him, he (husband) would not have made it out of his "childhood" unscathed.

Of course murder isn't the right solution. But sometimes desperate situations drive people -- especially young people, to do desperate things.

Thank God for that German Shepherd, Mr. E

Sorry, it's a weak excuse. These two girls found it acceptable to snuff their own mother. Yes, she may have been abusive and irresponsible. BUT they went there. They went to ridding themselves of the problem. Just kill her, we get money-life will be better. There is something severly wrong with their wiring. Does society really want these types of thinkers in society? There's a line that they crossed, which is something I believe can not be repaired. Their brains allowed them to think this was OK. As a victim myself of all who should have cared for me (who had an alcoholic "real" mother weekly try to kill herself and had her bar boyfriends attack me at 3am) I NEVER EVER WENT THERE. My brain wouldn't allow me to snuff my step monster after she would rub my nose in wet bedsheets like a dog, and finally tried to kill me with scissors at the ripe old age of 14 (even in self defense), or beat the crap out of my father and shoot him a thousand times because he thought I was his personal playboy bunny. My brain wasn't wired that way, because I had a conscience. I could not go there, because it was WRONG. My brain wouldn't allow me to go over that line-even if I thought I wanted to step on over. There is something seriously wrong with anyone who tries to kill another-unless it's in serious self defense. It is not normal to actually kill someone. There are options. An abused woman CAN get her *advertiser censored* out of that home. An abused teen can find help. There were options-they choose the "better" option for themselves. These two girls drugged their own mother and one admitted to drowning the drugged/drunk woman. They knew exactly what they were doing. Once someone has been able to cross that line, I don't think they can go back. Lock them up, I don't want that mentality around my family. Would you want one of them to be dating anyone in your family, like your son or maybe even your daughter? Scary thought. I don't think anyone can be rehabilitated after they have taken away life. That line was crossed, they are incapable of making conscience choices. Get them mental help for life, and keep them away from my family.

fivekidz I am sorry you went through so much

www.thestar.com

Jeana: This is in my hometown so I am posting a bit more info regarding this:

The younger teen initially refuses to talk about her mother's death, choosing instead to talk about how much she loves to smoke pot and consume magic mushrooms, an illegal hallucinogenic drug, with her boyfriend

We know how to act very well," she tells him, including how they managed to fool police the day of the murder by telling them their mother had drowned.

When the friend asks her why her mother never tasted the pills she consumed, she tells him that her mother willingly took "a bunch" of Tylenol 3s — supplied by her boyfriend — at their suggestion. She also says in the taped conversation that her mother was "way too drunk to notice anything was wrong.

"We used her weakest point against her," she says, referring to the fact their mother regularly got drunk and passed out. "We didn't put any pills (in her drinks). She took them (pills) herself.


"We know how people react to certain things and use that to our advantage.

She says she doesn't regret killing her mother and that she would "do it again" if the "exact same circumstances" occurred with her life

But every time the younger of two teenage sisters charged with murdering their mother stood up and leaned over to pass a note to her lawyer — as she did on at least a half-dozen occasions yesterday — her low-slung, clingy pants rode down her bum, exposing the thong underneath.


At one point, the elder sister made her sibling aware of this phenomenon and together they tittered

During one of these chats, after the friend professes to be concerned about what might happen to the girls, the younger sibling tells him to stop worrying because she and her sister are no dummies. "If we were stupid, we'd have gotten caught.

Reminding the friend that the family's bathroom was tiny, she added: "If someone is standing by the tub, there isn't much room to be helping. So I was, like, two feet behind.

It was either her or me," the teen, then 17, told her 21-year-old friend in chilling videotape played before a courtroom in Brampton yesterday. "I'm younger. I saw myself having more potential.

It (her murder) was the only real cure (her alcoholism) for her," she tells her friend.

In the conversation, the teen tells her friend she used rubber gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints while she held the head of her intoxicated mother under the water "for four minutes" until she died. She also tells him she used "open hands" because she didn't want to leave any bruising, planning every detail so she could get away with "the perfect crime."


"I didn't want to leave any prints on her head," she tells her friend.

Later in the tape, repeating how she held her mother's head under the water, she tells her friend that "it was easy" and that it's "a lot easier to kill a person than you think," but then adds she doesn't know "how easy it is to get away with it."

She tells him her mother was "probably better off now" because her life wasn't going to get any better unless they "won a million dollars" so they could afford to put her in "really good rehab."

As she spoke to her friend, she repeatedly talked about getting high on marijuana and said she was looking forward to going to a New Year's Eve party. She also said she wanted to convince her aunt to give her $10,000 so she could go to Europe for two months, possibly with a friend she hoped would soon become her boyfriend.


But she insisted that although she and her sister each received $63,000 from her mother's life insurance, the money had nothing to do with why she killed her mother.


"That's just chump change," she said, indicating many of her friends would get as much as "half a million dollars" if any of their fathers died.


She said her mother cancelled a much larger insurance policy shortly before her death.

The teen told her friend that she had been suicidal before she killed her mother and was still suicidal, but that she probably wouldn't take her own life for another 40 to 50 years.


"I don't want to die of old age," she said. "I've only done coke once and I have a lot of good coke-trying ahead of me.

Amraann said:

I am not going to dispute that these girls need help and what they did was wrong but unless you have lived that life I would not be so quick to dispute how difficult their lives were.


What that article doesn't point out is the probable scum their mother brought home at all hours of the night from the bar.
You think that is conducive to getting up and going to school?

The article also indicated drug use and this ....The older sister recounted episodes of her mother driving drunk with the children, threatening to plunge the car over a bridge if they didn't behave.

Although I do not agree with the method they chose I understand what these girls went through.
Please don't tell me they could seek help as it doesn't work.

Click to expand...

The mother made those girls the way they are either by fetal alcohol syndrome, inherited mental illness, and or abuse but the girls were at an age where they could have easily helped each other and lived on their own away from that horrible woman. I think they did it for the money so that they could live on their own and do some things that they wanted to do. They didn't have to endure her abuse or crazy threats any longer.

Cyberlaw,
Your link doesn't take us to that article any more. I saw this link on the side, but you have to be registered to read it. Please tell me it is not concerning this case.

Judge rules out teen's confession

Thanks Cyber. I don't think I'd want to be alone with those two girls.

As a CP investigations worker, I really wonder where other adults were in these teens lives? School teachers, adult family members, parents of friends, etc., etc.? I'm sure there were many 'cries for help' from these teens if they were experiencing abuse or neglect or warning signs if these girls were as deviant as some of the news articles report. Either way CP should have been involved a long time ago before such a horrific act took place. I truly don't believe that the idea of murder simply poped into these girls head. I'm sure that there is much more than what has been reported as far as the history of possibly maltreatment that these girls likely suffered.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=166094266&p=y66x9497z

Canada: Teenage sisters murdered their mother
15/12/2005 - 18:05:37

Two teenage sisters were found guilty today of murdering their alcoholic mother who drowned in the bath.

The sisters, now 18 and 19, planned their mother’s death on January 18, 2003, by making sure she was drunk and drugged with a pain reliever containing codeine before she took a bath at the family home in the suburb of Mississauga, west of Toronto.

“The case against them is overwhelming ... the strongest case I’ve seen in 30 years,” Justice Bruce Duncan said today in delivering his verdict.

The case has gained widespread media coverage because the girls internet chats with their friends during the murder were especially chilling.

Pook said:

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=166094266&p=y66x9497z

Canada: Teenage sisters murdered their mother
15/12/2005 - 18:05:37

Click to expand...

Thank God for that! These girls appear to be scarier than their mother ever was! Very, very sad all around!