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  1. #1
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    The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 3

    New Docuseries to begin airing 9/18/16 on CBS

    "Twenty years after her death—in which 140 suspects have been cleared of the crime, including her parents, John and Patsy—the high-profile puzzler remains unsolved. A “dream team” of investigators chronicled in the upcoming six-hour docuseries The Case Of: JonBenét Ramsey (premieres September 18, 8:30/7:30c, CBS) claims to have cracked the case."

    Thought I'd provide a link to the Real Crime Profile podcast. Episode 36 is a discussion of the upcoming docuseries, and a bit about the team comprised to re-do the investigation. The team includes Jim Clemente, a retired FBI profiler, and Laura Richards, formerly of Scotland yard. To hear them speak about their investigation, theirs is the end all be all of all of these anniversary shows that are popping up.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...081244497?mt=2

    https://www.facebook.com/Real-Crime-...7397233613178/


    Thread #2
    Last edited by Tricia; 10-06-2016 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    My apologies for kind of "re-posting" this, but it's my theory du jour that I initially dashed off on the fly. I've re-written to clarify, and I would really like to hear if it can be debunked:

    At some later point after eating a piece or two of pineapple, JB and BR got into an altercation and BR hit JB on the head with the heavy flashlight. Unlike any previous times he had hit her, she went down and didn't move. At age 9, he may or may not have understood she was unconscious. Whatever he thought was going on, he most likely was scared of her waking up screaming and crying which would bring one or both his parents downstairs and he'd get in trouble for hitting her.

    So he got hold of her by the back of her nightshirt and tried to drag her (because he couldn't lift her). This could have been (1) from the kitchen downstairs to the basement (if the altercation happened in the kitchen), or (2) from one place in the basement to another (ending up in the "wine cellar"). His reason would be to hide her until she woke up.

    Trying to drag her by the nightshirt was not working too well (but it caused the triangular red mark on front of her neck). So he got the cording and put it around her neck in a slipknot (typical knot a kid would use for just about anything) and tried to drag her that way, but the cording kept slipping through his hands.

    So he wrapped the other end of the cording around the piece of paintbrush handle to make a "grip" for his hands. [Or it's possible the cord with paintbrush grip was already lying around in the basement, having been made and used for something else.] He was then able to drag her body (including possibly down the stairs) to a place where his parents wouldn't immediately see her. The effect of this dragging tightened the cord around her neck and effectively strangled her although he was not aware of that.

    He waited around a while for her to wake up. Possibly he engaged in some sexual curiosity -- she was asleep and wouldn't know .... He poked her a couple of times with the train track trying to wake her up, but that didn't work. So he got a blanket and put over her, either to try to kind of keep her warm or possibly to help hide her in case the parents looked.

    And went upstairs to bed because he didn't know what else to do. Scared to go wake up his parents because whatever was wrong with her was his fault since he hit her. And he probably stayed in bed, scared stiff, when all heck broke loose, until whatever point he finally came downstairs. At some point shortly thereafter, he confessed to his parents about hitting her and then hiding her, and they came up with their plan for the ransom note and whatnot to try to protect him.

    I thought his behavior during the Dr Phil interview/s was clearly nervous, but what struck me was that his smiling was "appeasing", like a dog that tore up the living room while you were gone and knows it's in trouble but doesn't really understand why. I don't think he meant to kill his sister -- I do think he hit her out of an in-the-moment rage reaction and had no idea what he'd done or that his following efforts to move and hide her ended up effectively sealing the issue and killing her (although the blow would have apparently resulted in her death anyway).

    Her body had abrasions on the back consistent with having been dragged, and any of the adults could have/would likely have picked her up and carried her rather than drag her.

    How many of the actual elements of JB's death does this satisfy?

  3. #3
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    Thread number 3 is under way.
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  4. #4
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    Re:The boot print. Matching it to BR ' S shoe would not include or exclude him from the case, since he lived there, but it might have excluded one part of the Intruder theory that Smit was so sold on. I don't remember ever seeing the size mentioned anywhere.

  5. #5
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    I did a transcription of both Part one and Part two of the CBS special. For quick reference here is where each starts in the old thread.

    Episode 1
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2#post12843392

    Episode 2
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...3#post12829093

    Thank you Tricia for all you do!
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocate4 View Post
    My apologies for kind of "re-posting" this, but it's my theory du jour that I initially dashed off on the fly. I've re-written to clarify, and I would really like to hear if it can be debunked:

    At some later point after eating a piece or two of pineapple, JB and BR got into an altercation and BR hit JB on the head with the heavy flashlight. Unlike any previous times he had hit her, she went down and didn't move. At age 9, he may or may not have understood she was unconscious. Whatever he thought was going on, he most likely was scared of her waking up screaming and crying which would bring one or both his parents downstairs and he'd get in trouble for hitting her.

    So he got hold of her by the back of her nightshirt and tried to drag her (because he couldn't lift her). This could have been (1) from the kitchen downstairs to the basement (if the altercation happened in the kitchen), or (2) from one place in the basement to another (ending up in the "wine cellar"). His reason would be to hide her until she woke up.

    Trying to drag her by the nightshirt was not working too well (but it caused the triangular red mark on front of her neck). So he got the cording and put it around her neck in a slipknot (typical knot a kid would use for just about anything) and tried to drag her that way, but the cording kept slipping through his hands.

    So he wrapped the other end of the cording around the piece of paintbrush handle to make a "grip" for his hands. [Or it's possible the cord with paintbrush grip was already lying around in the basement, having been made and used for something else.] He was then able to drag her body (including possibly down the stairs) to a place where his parents wouldn't immediately see her. The effect of this dragging tightened the cord around her neck and effectively strangled her although he was not aware of that.

    He waited around a while for her to wake up. Possibly he engaged in some sexual curiosity -- she was asleep and wouldn't know .... He poked her a couple of times with the train track trying to wake her up, but that didn't work. So he got a blanket and put over her, either to try to kind of keep her warm or possibly to help hide her in case the parents looked.

    And went upstairs to bed because he didn't know what else to do. Scared to go wake up his parents because whatever was wrong with her was his fault since he hit her. And he probably stayed in bed, scared stiff, when all heck broke loose, until whatever point he finally came downstairs. At some point shortly thereafter, he confessed to his parents about hitting her and then hiding her, and they came up with their plan for the ransom note and whatnot to try to protect him.

    I thought his behavior during the Dr Phil interview/s was clearly nervous, but what struck me was that his smiling was "appeasing", like a dog that tore up the living room while you were gone and knows it's in trouble but doesn't really understand why. I don't think he meant to kill his sister -- I do think he hit her out of an in-the-moment rage reaction and had no idea what he'd done or that his following efforts to move and hide her ended up effectively sealing the issue and killing her (although the blow would have apparently resulted in her death anyway).

    Her body had abrasions on the back consistent with having been dragged, and any of the adults could have/would likely have picked her up and carried her rather than drag her.

    How many of the actual elements of JB's death does this satisfy?
    Imho it is a good theory! Only thing I think I would see maybe is if she was dragged down the stairs there may be even more abrasions? So maybe it all happened near the location so only required a short distance to drag or she was carried there later by the parents? Anything is possible in my opinion with the exception of an intruder.
    Last edited by PositiveLight; 10-06-2016 at 05:36 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  7. #7
    Found this at http://www.denverpost.com/2006/06/26...amseys-memory/

    “I don’t think she ever worried too much about the JonBenét thing,” Pam said, referring to the rampant speculation that Patsy was to blame for her 6-year-old daughter’s unsolved death nearly a decade ago. “She knew what the truth was. We all knew what the truth was. And now, she knows the whole truth.”

    And she went on to say this:

    “She’s gone,” Pam says. “She got her victory at 3 o’clock in the morning on Saturday.”

    I will leave this here for the reader to interpret it as they wish
    "The JonBenet thing"? How nice. And is victory a figure of speech this family uses when someone passes away? Interesting that's what the ransom note said. Could this be a word Patsy's family has always used when someone dies and Patsy used it in the ransom note (not realizing we would be analyzing that note for 20 years).

    ETA: If Pam was simply saying Patsy got her victory as in she was better off now and is now with God and "she knows the truth" and can now forget about what the public thinks of her, and Patsy wrote Victory in the ransom note, then what exactly did Patsy mean by that and to whom received this victory? Her? JonBenet? Who was better off now?
    Last edited by bonjoviblonde; 10-06-2016 at 05:54 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonjoviblonde View Post
    "The JonBenet thing"? How nice. And is victory a figure of speech this family uses when someone passes away? Interesting that's what the ransom note said. Could this be a word Patsy's family has always used when someone dies and Patsy used it in the ransom note (not realizing we would be analyzing that note for 20 years).
    Great point!!!
    This would add to the theory that S.B.T.C. could stand for Saved By The Cross. "Victory in Jesus... my savior forever...." singing....
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveLight View Post
    Great point!!!
    This would add to the theory that S.B.T.C. could stand for Saved By The Cross. "Victory in Jesus... my savior forever...." singing....
    Early on, I remember hearing SBTC could mean Subic Bay Training Center, since JR was in the navy. Does anyone remember this? Saved by the cross sounds more like Patsy.

    IMHO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocate4 View Post
    My apologies for kind of "re-posting" this, but it's my theory du jour that I initially dashed off on the fly. I've re-written to clarify, and I would really like to hear if it can be debunked:

    At some later point after eating a piece or two of pineapple, JB and BR got into an altercation and BR hit JB on the head with the heavy flashlight. Unlike any previous times he had hit her, she went down and didn't move. At age 9, he may or may not have understood she was unconscious. Whatever he thought was going on, he most likely was scared of her waking up screaming and crying which would bring one or both his parents downstairs and he'd get in trouble for hitting her.

    So he got hold of her by the back of her nightshirt and tried to drag her (because he couldn't lift her). This could have been (1) from the kitchen downstairs to the basement (if the altercation happened in the kitchen), or (2) from one place in the basement to another (ending up in the "wine cellar"). His reason would be to hide her until she woke up.

    Trying to drag her by the nightshirt was not working too well (but it caused the triangular red mark on front of her neck). So he got the cording and put it around her neck in a slipknot (typical knot a kid would use for just about anything) and tried to drag her that way, but the cording kept slipping through his hands.

    So he wrapped the other end of the cording around the piece of paintbrush handle to make a "grip" for his hands. [Or it's possible the cord with paintbrush grip was already lying around in the basement, having been made and used for something else.] He was then able to drag her body (including possibly down the stairs) to a place where his parents wouldn't immediately see her. The effect of this dragging tightened the cord around her neck and effectively strangled her although he was not aware of that.

    He waited around a while for her to wake up. Possibly he engaged in some sexual curiosity -- she was asleep and wouldn't know .... He poked her a couple of times with the train track trying to wake her up, but that didn't work. So he got a blanket and put over her, either to try to kind of keep her warm or possibly to help hide her in case the parents looked.

    And went upstairs to bed because he didn't know what else to do. Scared to go wake up his parents because whatever was wrong with her was his fault since he hit her. And he probably stayed in bed, scared stiff, when all heck broke loose, until whatever point he finally came downstairs. At some point shortly thereafter, he confessed to his parents about hitting her and then hiding her, and they came up with their plan for the ransom note and whatnot to try to protect him.

    I thought his behavior during the Dr Phil interview/s was clearly nervous, but what struck me was that his smiling was "appeasing", like a dog that tore up the living room while you were gone and knows it's in trouble but doesn't really understand why. I don't think he meant to kill his sister -- I do think he hit her out of an in-the-moment rage reaction and had no idea what he'd done or that his following efforts to move and hide her ended up effectively sealing the issue and killing her (although the blow would have apparently resulted in her death anyway).

    Her body had abrasions on the back consistent with having been dragged, and any of the adults could have/would likely have picked her up and carried her rather than drag her.

    How many of the actual elements of JB's death does this satisfy?
    I like your thought process! My one issue would be: from memory, the ligature marks were in a straight line around her neck, not pulled up at the front or back as they would be if she had been dragged by the cord. Does anyone recall?


  11. #11
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    Responding to queries regarding ashes at the R home, S Thomas sifted whatever ashes found, as I recall reading that tidbit.

    Always been curious about the tied wires found outside and the cigarette butts shown in the CS photo. It's weird. Who tied those wires and who smoked those cigs? The doll dressed in pink found in the WC is weird, too. And the pink nightgown with BRs tDNA, it is weird that it is in the WC with JonBenet. The footprint by HiTechs could possibly be dated as fresh or stale, depending on how fast the WC mold was growing. It looks fresh.

    That places BR in the WC with JB after nibbling pineapple and JB being in contact with the blue duvet found inside the blue Samsonite in the Train Room. The toe of the print is facing the lifeless body of JonBenet who is under the white blanket in the WC, correct? This is just so very horrible. And sad.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildebeest View Post
    Early on, I remember hearing SBTC could mean Subic Bay Training Center, since JR was in the navy. Does anyone remember this? Saved by the cross sounds more like Patsy.

    IMHO
    Yes I read that too. I also found info that in yacht racing a win was called a victory. And also in maritime lingo SBTC can stand for Signed By The Captain. All very interesting theories in my opinion.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinaD View Post
    I like your thought process! My one issue would be: from memory, the ligature marks were in a straight line around her neck, not pulled up at the front or back as they would be if she had been dragged by the cord. Does anyone recall?
    IIRC you are right. There was only a very slight upper angle of the cord at the back of her neck.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeDee View Post
    Responding to queries regarding ashes at the R home, S Thomas sifted whatever ashes found, as I recall reading that tidbit.

    Always been curious about the tied wires found outside and the cigarette butts shown in the CS photo. It's weird. Who tied those wires and who smoked those cigs? The doll dressed in pink found in the WC is weird, too. And the pink nightgown with BRs tDNA, it is weird that it is in the WC with JonBenet. The footprint by HiTechs could possibly be dated as fresh or stale, depending on how fast the WC mold was growing. It looks fresh.

    That places BR in the WC with JB after nibbling pineapple and JB being in contact with the blue duvet found inside the blue Samsonite in the Train Room. The toe of the print is facing the lifeless body of JonBenet who is under the white blanket in the WC, correct? This is just so very horrible. And sad.
    When I read this...something popped in my mind. Maybe this has been discussed before.
    Is it possible that maybe Burke was wearing her favorite gown and the crown that was found in the WC?
    Could the family secret or at least part of the secret be that Burke cross dressed? This might kind of tie into the PJs found in her room with feces in it that weren't JonBenet's size.
    Maybe mama bought Burke panties to match JonBenet's but his needed to be a larger size maybe hmmm 12-14?
    Could Burke have in a sick way wanted to be just like JonBenet? Could this have lead to confusion and inner turmoil within Burke and he always lashed out at his nemesis/sister/beauty queen? Maybe he really wanted to replace her with himself.
    Not sure what to think of this idea.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveLight View Post
    Great point!!!
    This would add to the theory that S.B.T.C. could stand for Saved By The Cross. "Victory in Jesus... my savior forever...." singing....

    I had never seen that article quoting PR's sister. It absolutely confirms, to me, that PR wrote the ransom note. Victory, saved by the cross . . . my opinion is that she wrote the note while hysterical and calling out to god. She was deeply religious and the term victory has a very specific meaning to Christians (but is not so widespread that you hear it all the time). It's not a coincidence, to me, that the note was signed off "Victory! SBTC" and PR's sister said she got her "victory" at 3 in the morning. Add that to all of the other evidence that PR wrote the note, including signing off with an acronym as she often did, and there can be little to no doubt she wrote it.

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