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  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GA_Peach View Post
    I don't think that you can prove a person forgot. It's part of the reason that cases like this fascinate me. However, the evidence can give credence to a particular theory. For example, were drugs or alcohol involved? Is there testimony that points to a distracted defendant? Additionally, forgetting is the result of a neurological breakdown, and those kind of breakdowns typically follow a pattern. Were any of those common causes present in the case (for example a change in routine)? JMO.

    Sounds like the defense is going to bring in experts to try to "prove" that it was indeed possible for Harris to forget Cooper, and perhaps, that the "forgetting" had nothing to do with being distracted.

    I don't think the defense has much choice but to attempt to convince the jury of that. IMO the most inexplicable and damning facts facing the defense are --

    --how it was possible for Harris to not see Cooper in the car seat at some point before he exited and walked away from the car, given how close to Harris Cooper was in the car seat, and that Cooper's head had to be visible from the front seat (unless Cooper fell asleep and it was possible for his head to slide/droop/fall below the top of the too small car seat).

    --how quickly Harris would have had to "forget" Cooper (1 or 2 or 3 minutes, whatever), and how thoroughly he would have to have been sure in his own mind that he'd dropped Cooper off, to not "remember" when prompted by cues, including photos of Cooper, emails, mentions of his son in his own texts, etc.

    I know a lot of folks think Harris's computer activity might be pivotal, but I doubt that, personally, one way or the other, unless the jury as a whole is completely unsavvy about the internet and how common it is to for some folks (including me) to get lost for hours just "surfing," going off on tangent after tangent by following link after link after link, and often enough, being sent off on those tangents by reading or seeing something completely unrelated pop up on one of the pages being skimmed and quickly abandoned.

    Maybe I'm predisposed to believe the defense's claim that Harris was an info junkie because I'm one myself, but because I am one, I'm receptive to believing that the internet history of info and research junkies probably isn't very compelling evidence of anything more than the fact that the user has eclectic interests and is an info junkie.

    In other words (being succinct isn't one of my strong points, sorry), I'm pretty confident the State doesn't have any "smoking gun" searches by Harris to produce at trial, though it wouldn't surprise me if the State explained that lack by claiming Harris deleted portions of his search history.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Sounds like the defense is going to bring in experts to try to "prove" that it was indeed possible for Harris to forget Cooper, and perhaps, that the "forgetting" had nothing to do with being distracted.

    **Snipped For Brevity **
    Even with expert testimony explaining how it can happen, some jurors might hold firm to a possible belief that forgetting and unintentionally leaving a child in a vehicle is not possible for any parent period. As a result, regardless of the circumstances, every parent should be charged. Many people believe this>> I could never forget my child. It hasn't happened to me...therefore, it can't happen to anyone else.

  3. #48
    For anyone interested in another case on WS of a child being left in a hot car death, check out the thread in Child Crimes of Cheyenne Hyer,3 years old, intentionally left in her mother's car, and left there for 5 hours. Her mother is (was, was fired) a police officer, and Cheyenne was left in her mother's patrol car while her mother went into a house to "visit" a gentleman (she says she unintentionally fell asleep while visiting).

    The difference of most interest to me is in how the mother was charged- a single count of manslaughter. In Florida the death of a child by (criminal) culpable negligence is considered aggravated manslaughter, a first degree felony punishable by up to 30 years.

    Compare that to GA , and the potential punishment of Harris if he is convicted of "just" the charges of second degree child cruelty and felony murder with the predicate of 2nd degree child cruelty -- up to life, or LWOP.

    And btw, Cheyenne's mother had left Cheyenne in her car at least before, and had been on record for having done so. Yet, she was freed on bail, and hasn't yet spent a minute in jail.
    Last edited by Hope4More; 10-07-2016 at 10:43 AM.

  4. #49
    JudyBolton's Avatar
    JudyBolton is offline In memory: My dear friend Martha Mickel, kidnapped & murdered by Curtis Tyner.
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    I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

    The weird behavior
    The (possible) internet searches and their timing
    The "malicious intent" comment
    The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
    The nearness in the car of Connor's head
    Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
    asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
    The financial issues + insurance $
    The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
    The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
    The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
    and there are more...
    Judy ( posting only my opinion)

  5. #50
    JudyBolton's Avatar
    JudyBolton is offline In memory: My dear friend Martha Mickel, kidnapped & murdered by Curtis Tyner.
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    Oh, and I have another question. What is the significance of Ross Harris's hearing loss in one ear. Is the defense suggesting that because of that he could not hear Connor (talking, singing, crying, or whatever) in the carseat that was inches away from his head?
    Judy ( posting only my opinion)

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    For anyone interested in another case on WS of a child being left in a hot car death, check out the thread in Child Crimes of Cheyenne Hyer,3 years old, intentionally left in her mother's car, and left there for 5 hours. Her mother is (was, was fired) a police officer, and Cheyenne was left in her mother's patrol car while her mother went into a house to "visit" a gentleman (she says she unintentionally fell asleep while visiting).

    The difference of most interest to me is in how the mother was charged- a single count of manslaughter. In Florida the death of a child by (criminal) culpable negligence is considered aggravated manslaughter, a first degree felony punishable by up to 30 years.

    Compare that to GA , and the potential punishment of Harris if he is convicted of "just" the charges of second degree child cruelty and felony murder with the predicate of 2nd degree child cruelty -- up to life, or LWOP.

    And btw, Cheyenne's mother had left Cheyenne in her car at least before, and had been on record for having done so. Yet, she was freed on bail, and hasn't yet spent a minute in jail.
    I was reading about this case last night and it completely angers me. Just the few details that have been reported are awful.

    However, I think RH's charges and potential punishment (in regards to the negligence and felony murder) are appropriate. Unfortunately, the charges for this "mom" they are woefully inadequate. To the chief's credit, he did request a bond hearing for higher bail. Wish that would have been considered.

    JMO

  7. #52
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    You are right in my book, JudyBolton, it's not any one part, but the weight of the whole. To me he's guilty on all accounts. However the few things he's done that makes him guilty in my book, is I can't get past how he claims he forgot within a few minutes. He remembered to take him out of the house, put him in the car, drive to CFA, take him out of the car, walk into CFA, walk him back to car, strap him in and within a few minutes, if that, FORGETS!!! No way! He didn't forget to take him into CFA, no that wouldn't have killed Cooper, but leaving him in the car for 7 or more hours in the heat, would kill him.


    This post is my opinion only, and is subject to making me look totally confused

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudyBolton View Post
    Oh, and I have another question. What is the significance of Ross Harris's hearing loss in one ear. Is the defense suggesting that because of that he could not hear Connor (talking, singing, crying, or whatever) in the carseat that was inches away from his head?
    This will be interesting. I think the prosecution will be able to scrutinize to an extent, what the defense will likely do with that.

    I'm sure they will try to refute that RH couldn't hear Cooper.

    (I have 2 deaf people in my mother's side of the family. My mom was a teacher's assistant at our local speech and hearing school my whole childhood. I have life long friends and "family" I made there. Having been around a large and diverse number of deaf and partially deaf people my whole life...the he couldn't hear Cooper theory gets a gigantic eye roll from me.)

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    Yes, of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution. What I am saying, is you seem to believe the searches didn't really happen, simply because the defense says they didn't. OF COURSE they are going to say that! They aren't going to agree. We haven't even come to that batch of evidence being presented and scrutinized, yet. Why not wait until that happens, before it's assumed the detective is lying? I just find it strange that the defense is believed so readily, before we've even reached that part of the trial. Accusing a detective of lying before it's presented in this trial is really lofty. I don't think either side can or should be accepted as fact right now. (IMO.) I have my own opinions, but if the evidence shows something else...well, I've been wrong before.
    I totally agree. We really haven't seen any of that evidence thus far and I anxiously await more facts. The reason I keep an open mind on Stoddard is the fact he stated smell of decomposition to help himself secure a warrant for JRH when no one else at the scene reported the smell. I am trying to place more emphasis on reports and testimony from that sad day rather than thoughts and opinions today. Also, I anxiously need to hear from co-workers, friends, etc about daily life and their interpretations of how Ross and Cooper interaction. I have heard reports of how friends and co-workers kept getting tired of all the daily stories JRH proclaimed non-stop about all the fun times w Cooper. I want to see their testimony and see if they are credible. I remain on the fence w open eyes. This is such an emotional trial. Some want JRH head on a platter and we haven't even seen much evidence yet. I want a fair trial with appropriate verdict. I personally feel JRH was negligent that day with all his sexting, but in know way feel it was premeditated. I could easily be wrong.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudyBolton View Post
    I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

    The weird behavior
    The (possible) internet searches and their timing
    The "malicious intent" comment
    The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
    The nearness in the car of Connor's head
    Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
    asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
    The financial issues + insurance $
    The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
    The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
    The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
    and there are more...
    I have struggled with believing Harris forgot so quickly. However, I am interested in and will be open to the expert testimony of how this can happen.


  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyBolton View Post
    I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

    The weird behavior
    The (possible) internet searches and their timing
    The "malicious intent" comment
    The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
    The nearness in the car of Connor's head
    Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
    asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
    The financial issues + insurance $
    The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
    The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
    The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
    and there are more...

    I agree that the totality of evidence is always and rightfully more meaningful than any one point or even multiple points. (Obviously, though, the defense will have to refute points individually, though, and provide a counter explanation /narrative for each one, which is why I think analyzing each point separately is useful).

    Even though the State doesn't have to prove motive per se, they do need to convince the jury about Harris's state of mind in order to successfully argue intent.

    I think they'll rely on his "searches" and his extramarital activity to try to establish that Harris wanted to be free of Cooper, and that he had looked into hot car deaths as a means of killing his son.

    If the jury keeps an open mind, based on what we know now (admittedly incomplete as it is), I'd guess (or would hope, at least) they would be unconvinced by computer evidence or the sexting alone that he had intent, and so will look at how the morning unfolded without seeing everything through the prism of assumed intent.

    I honestly can't imagine how in the world the defense will convince a jury, though, that it was possible for Harris to forget Cooper in such a short time, no matter how many experts they hire and bring in to explain how it is medically and psychologically and neurologically possible.

    And even if they accept that forgetting was possible, theoretically, I think the fact of Cooper's proximity might well be one too many implausibles for them to accept.

    That's why I think Leanne's testimony will be most crucial to the defense. She will apparently be testifying that Harris loved Cooper, would never dream of harming him, and that she has never doubted that what happened to Cooper was a terrible accident.

    My guess is she will also testify that she was aware of her ex-husband 's infidelities, that they had sought counseling and pastoral guidance together, and that while both knew their marriage was in trouble, both were committed to trying to make it work because both put Cooper first.

    I'm also willing to guess that Leanne will try to assume some of the responsibility for what happened, including not transferring the larger car seat back into Ross's car.

    Just guesses. But, if even close to what happens, and if the jury finds Leanne convincing, compelling, and sympathetic, I think the jury might square the circle by disbelieving intent, but believing absolutely that Harris was extraordinarily negligent, given every clue and cue available to him during the 5 minutes from CFA to work, in being capable of "forgetting" that Cooper was in the car.
    Last edited by Hope4More; 10-07-2016 at 12:15 PM.

  12. #57
    JudyBolton's Avatar
    JudyBolton is offline In memory: My dear friend Martha Mickel, kidnapped & murdered by Curtis Tyner.
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    I look forward to hearing from Leanne as well. She is a strange bird in my opinion. Her comments at the funeral were very strange. Her comments to Ross were also strange ("did you say too much".)

    Did they not state that there were internet searches from the home computer about hot car deaths? I found this news article " Police say that both parents did extensive internet searches on the subject and made comments that seemed suspicious after the child’s death..." http://www.waggonerinsurance.com/201...s-for-divorce/ BBM

    So, if true, there is another coincidence. Did they both just click on the same link randomly while killing time online? Will the jury believe that?
    Judy ( posting only my opinion)

  13. #58
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    I'm also looking forward to hearing Leanne. Also I'm keeping in mind that Ross, and even in his own words, said he was living a double life. I'm sure when he was with his family he put on the "loving" family act, but he didn't seem to when it came to his "other life". JMO!


    This post is my opinion only, and is subject to making me look totally confused

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudyBolton View Post
    I look forward to hearing from Leanne as well. She is a strange bird in my opinion. Her comments at the funeral were very strange. Her comments to Ross were also strange ("did you say too much".)

    Did they not state that there were internet searches from the home computer about hot car deaths? I found this news article " Police say that both parents did extensive internet searches on the subject and made comments that seemed suspicious after the child’s death..." http://www.waggonerinsurance.com/201...s-for-divorce/ BBM

    So, if true, there is another coincidence. Did they both just click on the same link randomly while killing time online? Will the jury believe that?
    I was just coming to post similar.

    "Leanna Harris, the child's mother, was also questioned regarding the incident and made similar statements regarding researching in car deaths and how it occurs,'' according to new search warrants made public Sunday. The warrants were released by Cobb County magistrate officials, and obtained by Fox 5 in Atlanta, and other media outlets.

    On Saturday, warrants showed the boy's father, Justin "Ross" Harris, 33, also recently researched the topic. The warrants do not say when those searches took place. "During an interview with Justin, he stated that he recently researched, through the internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur. Justin stated that he was fearful that this could happen," the warrants said.
    http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...arris_als.html

    If this turns out to be a lie by LE then IMO a mistrial should be declared. Hopefully it will be cleared up when Leanna is on the stand, plus they should have video/audio evidence of the statements.

    And as for Professor Diamond (the professional defense witness who testifies about his theory of "Forgotten Baby Syndrome") - don't underestimate the power of his testimony. He helped get Jayde Poole (Australia) off manslaughter charges; she left her baby in the car after driving 186 yards down the street to pick up fast food.

    I hope whoever did the forensic examination of the Harris devices got all the evidence (as opposed to what happened in CA).

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMarple View Post
    I was just coming to post similar.



    http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...arris_als.html

    If this turns out to be a lie by LE then IMO a mistrial should be declared. Hopefully it will be cleared up when Leanna is on the stand, plus they should have video/audio evidence of the statements.

    And as for Professor Diamond (the professional defense witness who testifies about his theory of "Forgotten Baby Syndrome") - don't underestimate the power of his testimony. He helped get Jayde Poole (Australia) off manslaughter charges; she left her baby in the car after driving 186 yards down the street to pick up fast food.

    I hope whoever did the forensic examination of the Harris devices got all the evidence (as opposed to what happened in CA).
    I recall that at the hearing, it was said the interview was both video tapes and audio taped. Shouldn't the defense already have viewed and listened to it? If they have, and that is not what what was actually said (meaning the detective lied,) wouldn't that have been brought up already?

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