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  1. #1
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    ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

    Lemhi County sheriff: DeOrr's case 'has to be a homicide'
    Dean Johnson, KTVB July 07, 2016

    BOISE - It' has been nearly a year now since 3-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. went missing while on a camping trip with his family near Leadore, Idaho. It's a story that's garnered national attention, especially with last week's People Magazine article in which the toddler's parents outline what happened that day, and what they've done since.

    On Thursday, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB he thinks the parents are hiding something.

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  2. #2
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    Just revisited my Quick Poll from the last thread (starting #1301) about who we think is in the know about DeOrr...

    Jessica 38
    Vernal 36
    Grandpa 30
    Isaac 3
    Other family 12

    Also a unanimous vote for "DeOrr died before the trip" (28) compared to "he died at the campground" (0) which I must say I'm pretty surprised by. When/why were minds changed?

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoverMeCagney View Post
    Just revisited my Quick Poll from the last thread (starting #1301) about who we think is in the know about DeOrr...

    Jessica 38
    Vernal 36
    Grandpa 30
    Isaac 3
    Other family 12

    Also a unanimous vote for "DeOrr died before the trip" (28) compared to "he died at the campground" (0) which I must say I'm pretty surprised by. When/why were minds changed?
    BBM

    Personally, I questioned his presence during the initial search when the dogs weren't picking up a trail. I don't think there is one particular "Aha!" moment that stands out to me, but over time that skepticism grew in my mind and I feel pretty strongly about it now. Although, this case is so twisted and convoluted that it's hard to pin down a concrete theory.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatieLiz View Post
    BBM

    Personally, I questioned his presence during the initial search when the dogs weren't picking up a trail. I don't think there is one particular "Aha!" moment that stands out to me, but over time that skepticism grew in my mind and I feel pretty strongly about it now. Although, this case is so twisted and convoluted that it's hard to pin down a concrete theory.
    I know what you mean! I think I wondered if DeOrr was ever really there quite early on (along with all the other theories running through my mind), but would like to believe Isaac is telling the truth about seeing him playing. I don't think I've ever fallen off the fence as many times as I have with this case. I've firmly believed every theory at one point or another, even if only fleetingly.

    Common sense tells me he wasn't there, as there'd be evidence of his presence. But I just can't grasp how 4 adults can all hide such a big secret without cracking. It's driving me mad and I know I'm not the only one!

  5. #5
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    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?313692-ID-DeOrr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-28&p=12859456#post12859456
    Posted by katieliz:
    Okay wow. I don't remember actually seeing this picture. So this is 1:31 pm Thursday. They called 911 after 2:00 right? What is the context of this picture? How close to the campground is this? I saw the original post and the pics all had time gaps. Is this one of those weather cameras that takes just 1 pic every 15 minutes or so? Or is this still from an actual video camera? That would make a big difference... if there's video you would think the cops had already reviewed it and eliminated it since nothing has happened. That's why I assume this must just be a camera that takes shots at random times?
    IIRC it is one of those every 15 minute cam shots. Someone else asked if VDK drove a flat bed at that time which I don't know the answer to that. Don't I remember though that he had two pickups at the time, or am I just imagining it? Anyone? TIA

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by neesaki View Post
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?313692-ID-DeOrr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-28&p=12859456#post12859456
    Posted by katieliz:

    IIRC it is one of those every 15 minute cam shots. Someone else asked if VDK drove a flat bed at that time which I don't know the answer to that. Don't I remember though that he had two pickups at the time, or am I just imagining it? Anyone? TIA
    His vehicle at the campsite was a 1991-1993 Dodge Ram diesel pickup, with club cab, black.
    In a July 2016 RTA he was driving a 1996 Ford F250 pickup
    It's possible he owned both these trucks in 2015. In a video interview ("breakfast and a tailpipipe") he refers to his "trucks" plural.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by neesaki View Post
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?313692-ID-DeOrr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-28&p=12859456#post12859456
    Posted by katieliz:

    IIRC it is one of those every 15 minute cam shots. Someone else asked if VDK drove a flat bed at that time which I don't know the answer to that. Don't I remember though that he had two pickups at the time, or am I just imagining it? Anyone? TIA
    That's where I'm torn. The truck I get when I do a Google search has a similar front cab to the one in the traffic camera picture, but does not have a flatbed. But I have also heard the mentions of a second truck in relation to all the diesel purchases.


    Do I also remember something about someone other than J and V making purchases on their credit card or something? Oh man, we have taken so many twists and turns that's it's hard to remember the early stuff.

  8. #8
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    A child was noticed to be missing, presumably wandered off. What hypothetically were the two greatest dangers facing a child who had wandered off?
    1. Falling into creek and drowning. However it is reported that the creek was extensively searched and nothing found.
    2. Vehicle driven at high speed while looking at a mobile phone.
    One might think of other dangers, like accidentally falling into the vault toilet tank, or an attack by a mountain lion or bear, but I think 1 and 2 above probably cover the major physical risks?
    Last edited by koios; 10-10-2016 at 06:15 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatieLiz View Post
    That's where I'm torn. The truck I get when I do a Google search has a similar front cab to the one in the traffic camera picture, but does not have a flatbed. But I have also heard the mentions of a second truck in relation to all the diesel purchases.


    Do I also remember something about someone other than J and V making purchases on their credit card or something? Oh man, we have taken so many twists and turns that's it's hard to remember the early stuff.
    This is the Dodge pickup which was at the campsite.
    The photo shows it a day or two later during the searches.
    http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png
    ( from an earlier thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...7#post12139227 )
    Last edited by koios; 10-10-2016 at 06:59 PM.

  10. #10
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    Only to get a general background picture of what the campsite looked like, I wanted to know what the camper was. This is not definite but there is a chance it might have been a 17T. Not certain because the other candidate is a huge camper, but from various interviews I think the small one is more probable. However I emphasise that in the big KIC report it states that both were thoroughly checked (presumably with Trace and Sarge assisting) so I am 100% confident these been totally ruled out from having any relevance to the disappearance.
    Last edited by koios; 10-10-2016 at 06:54 PM.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by koios View Post
    A child was noticed to be missing, presumably wandered off. What hypothetically were the two greatest dangers facing a child who had wandered off?
    1. Falling into creek and drowning. However it is reported that the creek was extensively searched and nothing found.
    2. Vehicle driven at high speed while looking at a mobile phone.
    One might think of other dangers, like accidentally falling into the vault toilet tank, or an attack by a mountain lion or bear, but I think 1 and 2 above probably cover the major physical risks?
    When this first happened, I thought there was a good chance he would be found in the reservoir (due to parental negligence). I thought it was strange that the parents didn't act overly concerned about the water being nearby. I would have thought they would have been very panicked about the water and at least one of the parents would have been in the water (most likely the reservoir) still searching when SAR arrived. Did either of the parents actually get in the water and go around the perimeter of the reservoir? Now, I'm guessing they didn't because they knew he wasn't in there.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by koios View Post
    Only to get a general background picture of what the campsite looked like, I wanted to know what the camper was. This is not definite but there is a chance it might have been a 17T. Not certain because the other candidate is a huge camper, but from various interviews I think the small one is more probable. However I emphasise that in the big KIC report it states that both were thoroughly checked (presumably with Trace and Sarge assisting) so I am 100% confident these been totally ruled out from having any relevance to the disappearance.
    From the photos I have seen of the trailer I assume to be Bob's, it is quite small - perhaps 15 feet, give or take a few feet.

  13. #13
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    SubtleGrace is offline Zaylee Rose born 1/2/11. In loving memory of Zahra and Caylee. Love you angels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koios View Post
    A child was noticed to be missing, presumably wandered off. What hypothetically were the two greatest dangers facing a child who had wandered off?
    1. Falling into creek and drowning. However it is reported that the creek was extensively searched and nothing found.
    2. Vehicle driven at high speed while looking at a mobile phone.
    One might think of other dangers, like accidentally falling into the vault toilet tank, or an attack by a mountain lion or bear, but I think 1 and 2 above probably cover the major physical risks?
    Considering they were at a remote mountain campsite, with horrible roads where it has been reported it's hard to do even 20 miles per hour, I highly doubt danger number two to be one of the greatest danger facing a child wandering off in those conditions. Drowning, falling or animals would be the most likely "greatest dangers". IMO, of course.
    IMO, MOO and all that jazz....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by koios View Post
    This is the Dodge pickup which was at the campsite.
    The photo shows it a day or two later during the searches.
    http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png
    ( from an earlier thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...7#post12139227 )
    I didn't think it had a flatbed. The video snapshot appears to be a black truck with a flatbed and toolbox, but the picture quality isn't spectacular and I could be incredibly wrong.

    But VDK could have had a second truck or had access to another truck as well. IIRC, there were two stops for diesel. Of course, I don't know if they completely filled up both times or if they just got $20 worth and moved on. It doesn't seem like the trip from IF to campground would be long enough to completely empty a tank. Diesel trucks usually get several more mpgs than their gasoline equivalents.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleGrace View Post
    Considering they were at a remote mountain campsite, with horrible roads where it has been reported it's hard to do even 20 miles per hour, I highly doubt danger number two to be one of the greatest danger facing a child wandering off in those conditions. Drowning, falling or animals would be the most likely "greatest dangers". IMO, of course.
    But there was a vehicle travelling at excessive speed

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