The Conclusion

Nedthan Johns · Nov 9, 2005

Hi all,

I got bored discussing this case. But interesting reading now and then.

Conclusion: The kid's dead, the fact that the Ramsey's bailed out of town, clearly indicates guilt. Who did it? Don't know, don't care. I know who DIDN'T do it, an intruder. As far as I am concerned all 3 have to live with it for the rest of their lives and beyond. Clearly Burke knows *something*. John's only saving grace was that he had money. He did whatever he could to cover for his neurotic wife. I have met people just like the Ramsey's. Who would do ANYTHING to cover someone in the family with a mental illness, including denying it exsists. Something isn't right with this family and I think that is something we can all agree with. Just imagine having ALL that money and not doing whatever it took to catch the murderer of your daughter? Instead they used it to buy a big home, move across the country and far away from the BPD. John knew *exactly* what to do. They are just another family with money that got away with murder.

sissi · Nov 9, 2005

The word abrasion has been used in a court of law to describe stun gun marks.

The Ramsey's home was Atlanta, Boulder was a business move, John lost his job, why stay ?

Not one of the Ramseys know who killed Jonbenet.

Clearly no one in the Ramsey family suffers from mental illness, it would have made headline "tab" news!

We are all tired, we all wish this case could be solved, however the blame for this not happening lies with the BPD ,not with the Ramseys.

Ask the BPD how many of the dna swabs they actually tested against the foreign dna found on Jonbenet! The investigation needs to backtrack to that point and start over.

narlacat · Nov 9, 2005

The secret the Ramsey's are hiding is bigger than the love they have for their daughter.
Why would they try to leave town when her body was found?
It wasn't even an hour later and they were arranging to leave the state.

tipper · Nov 9, 2005

sissi said:
The word abrasion has been used in a court of law to describe stun gun marks.

[...]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1288262&dopt=Abstract

Homicidal manual strangulation and multiple stun-gun injuries.

Ikeda N, Harada A, Suzuki T.

Department of Forensic Medicine, Yamagata University School of Medicine, Japan.

Stun guns are electric shock devices that are used by a number of law enforcement agencies to subdue violent offenders, but sometimes are discharged into human bodies as offensive weapons. We autopsied a 22-year-old woman who was strangled and had many stun-gun injuries on her head, chest, abdomen, arms, and legs. The stun-gun injuries consisted of many pairs of round erythemas with or without central paleness, some of which were accompanied by circumferential abrasions.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/morgue/2004/2004_07_28.taser28.shtml

In the 978 times a Phoenix officer has used a Taser, they have never once injured anyone more severely than an abrasion, Force said. He called the weapons "humane" and "the best, most effective tool" police have to capture suspects.

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/1990/sg900934.txt

The Marshals immediately took petitioner to a United States Air Force base approximately one-and-one-half hours away. According to his allegations, petitioner was severely beaten and burned with a "stun gun" during the ride, all at the direction of the Marshals. /2/ After arriving at the base, petitioner was flown to the United States. During the flight, petitioner claims, the Marshals beat him and shocked him about the body, including on his testicles and feet. Pet. App. A3. Upon his arrival in the United States, petitioner was immediately transferred to Marion Penitentiary. By that time, approximately 24 hours had passed since his apprehension. A physician examined petitioner and found abrasions on his head, face, scalp, neck, arms, feet, and penis, as well as blistering on his back. According to the physician, those injuries could have been caused by a stun gun. Pet. App. A3.

http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/isevidence.html

Trace electric burns are usually a red brown circular lesion from 1 to 3mm in diameter, usually without inflammation, which may result in a hyperpigmented scar. Involved skin surfaces must be carefully examined because the lesions are often not easily discernible.

The decision to biopsy recent lesions to prove their origin is controversial. Electrical burns may produce specific histologic changes, but these are not always present, and the absence of such changes in no way mitigates against the lesion being an electrical burn.

Brefie · Nov 9, 2005

narlacat said:
The secret the Ramsey's are hiding is bigger than the love they have for their daughter.
Why else would they try to leave town when her body was found?
It wasn't even an hour later and they were arranging to leave the state.

Exactly! And anyone who defends this move, does so knowing FULL WELL it has GUILTY stamped all over it.
Defend the Ramseys all you want, but nobody in their right mind thinks that this was a 'normal' thing to do.

Seeker · Nov 9, 2005

JonBenet died when she was 6 years old.

She's been dead for almost 9 years now.

That's longer than her entire life was.

This case will never be solved and no perp will ever be brought before a court to stand trial.

narlacat · Nov 9, 2005

There are numerous things that make people think the Ramsey's are guilty.I only pointed out one thing.
Zman, they had been looking for their daughter since they woke up early that morning, they found her at around 1 in the afternoon.
Why were they arranging to leave the state within an hour of finding her body??
Would you want to leave your child like that?? Would you, after finding your daughter dead want to just leave her and go interstate??
What about.....I wonder what happened to her? I want to find out who killed her??
BORI'S can put it down to grief and whatever else, but I can't.
John said he had something very important to do, tell me, what could possibly be more important than finding out who killed their precious daughter?

narlacat · Nov 9, 2005

Seeker said:
JonBenet died when she was 6 years old.

She's been dead for almost 9 years now.

That's longer than her entire life was.

This case will never be solved and no perp will ever be brought before a court to stand trial.

I agree Seeker.
Though I wish it could be different.

Moab · Nov 9, 2005

Zman said:
Why does wanting to go to Atlanta make them guilty of killing their daughter?

Where should they have gone that would have made you feel better?

How about to the police station? That day or the next day, or any of the days between December 26th and 4 months later when they finally strolled in.

Zman · Nov 9, 2005

narlacat said:
There are numerous things that make people think the Ramsey's are guilty.I only pointed out one thing.
Zman, they had been looking for their daughter since they woke up early that morning, they found her at around 1 in the afternoon.
Why were they arranging to leave the state within an hour of finding her body??
Would you want to leave your child like that?? Would you, after finding your daughter dead want to just leave her and go interstate??
What about.....I wonder what happened to her? I want to find out who killed her??
BORI'S can put it down to grief and whatever else, but I can't.
John said he had something very important to do, tell me, what could possibly be more important than finding out who killed their precious daughter?

To bury her at home. LE is supposed to find the murder.

Brefie · Nov 9, 2005

Zman said:
To bury her at home. LE is supposed to find the murder.

Hmm....one thing wrong with that argument - they didn't plan on taking her with them.

Brefie · Nov 9, 2005

Zman said:
Not trying to be condesending at all. I just don't think it would matter to the RDI people where they went. Even if they rented an apartment right next to the police station.

You must be joking! You don't honestly believe that arranging to leave state 20 mins after they find their daughter is reasonable.

You are entitled to your opinion, however, if you are going to reply that you think it is reasonable, I will tell you right now that I out and out do not believe you.

Tricia · Nov 9, 2005

Zman said:
Where should they have gone that would have made you feel better?

To the police station to answer questions, right a way. That would have made the whole world feel a lot better about them. People would have felt like the Ramseys cared about their daughter and cared about trying to find her killer.

They could have gone to a web designer and kept JonBenet's website up with tip information and reward info.

The Ramseys could have gone to court to get an order to exhume JBR to prove their "stun gun" theory once and for all.

I can think of all kinds of places they could have gone.

The very first place would have been the police station. Within 24 hours of the killing. Not four months later.

Tricia · Nov 9, 2005

Moab said:
How about to the police station? That day or the next day, or any of the days between December 26th and 4 months later when they finally strolled in.

Whoops. Sorry Moab and Narlacat. I read Zmans question and posted before scrolling and reading.

I hate that when that happens :crazy:

Zman · Nov 9, 2005

Tricia said:
To the police station to answer questions, right a way. That would have made the whole world feel a lot better about them. People would have felt like the Ramseys cared about their daughter and cared about trying to find her killer.

They could have gone to a web designer and kept JonBenet's website up with tip information and reward info.

The Ramseys could have gone to court to get an order to exhume JBR to prove their "stun gun" theory once and for all.

I can think of all kinds of places they could have gone.

The very first place would have been the police station. Within 24 hours of the killing. Not four months later.

I would imagine that "stun gun" injuries would prove nothing to those who have already made up their minds. I'm sure they would just say JR had a stun gun somewhere. I'm sure the R's are now sure they could change no one's mind anyway.

narlacat · Nov 9, 2005

Zman said:
To bury her at home. LE is supposed to find the murder.

Well, it would have been nice if the Ramsey's hung around to help LE in doing that, and even though they were not allowed to leave the state, they still didn't help. You can't even say LE wasn't treating them properly because at that stage they were getting treated with kiddie gloves. Eller had ordered that the Ramsey's be treated as victims, not suspects. They were an "influential family" and were to be treated as such.
Like Brefie pointed out, they didn't plan on taking JonBenet's body with them, how could they?? The coroner had yet to look at the body and determine how she had died. Why were they not interested in how she died?? Didn't they want to know wtf happened to their daughter??

Zman · Nov 9, 2005

Tricia said:
To the police station to answer questions, right a way. That would have made the whole world feel a lot better about them. People would have felt like the Ramseys cared about their daughter and cared about trying to find her killer.

They could have gone to a web designer and kept JonBenet's website up with tip information and reward info.

The Ramseys could have gone to court to get an order to exhume JBR to prove their "stun gun" theory once and for all.

I can think of all kinds of places they could have gone.

The very first place would have been the police station. Within 24 hours of the killing. Not four months later.

The R's know that no one who thinks their guilty is going to change there mind now no matter what.

Short of a Iron Clad confession by someone else and even then I'm sure some will discount the confession.

Im sure if they were trying to fake their innocence they would keep the web page and reward up and running.

I would think the lawyers kept the R's away from the BPD because the lawyers were well aware that LE was trying to frame the R's for the crime.

It does look bad that the lawyers were their so quickly for them but once their involved you pretty much have to do what they say.

All the evidence against the R's is more than likely fake or misleading which I'm sure is what the GJ found out.

narlacat · Nov 10, 2005

QUOTE>>I'm sure they would just say JR had a stun gun somewhere.<<

Well, he did have an instructional video on how to use one.
But that's neither here nor there because I really don't believe Smit's theory about the stun gun.

Seeker · Nov 10, 2005

I have to laugh at Zman's post :laugh: about burying JB at home...within 35 minutes of finding her body. As if they even planned on taking her body with them.....before an autopsy, before the police released them or the crime scene? Not very likely.

Nope, John just wanted to cut and run IMO.

He gave different reasons for trying to get to the opposite side of the country as soon as he possibly could too.

The first one was when he said he was "scared" for his family's (duh, Burke wasn't even there!!! He was at the Whites at this time) safety.
Mr "I'm concerned for my son & wife's safety" then leaves their next home open and unlocked as well (remember the story about his going in and then using a frying pan? That was way before the Atlanta "break in" which has also never been solved because IMO it's also a fantasy created to get attention by John).

The second excuse was that he had "important business" to take care of...

WTF? If it was so important why didn't he have it scheduled in advance instead of the Michigan trip? Because it DIDN'T exist!

Sounds suspiciously to me like a murderer trying to flee the scene of the crime knowing he's about to be busted for it...

Hence his comment to Linda Arndt...."It's an inside job."

Thanks to ACR:
REPORTER (05-01-1997): What do you want to say to the killer of your daughter?
John Ramsey (05-01-1997): "We'll find you. We will find you. I have that as a sole mission for the rest of my life."

After running away, burying her and forgetting her, and his failed political attempts maybe someday he'll make good on his words. I doubt it, but he seems to have forgotten his "sole mission" immediately after making this statement...

narlacat · Nov 10, 2005

QUOTE>>That was way before the Atlanta "break in" which has also never been solved because IMO it's also a fantasy created to get attention by John).<<

I agree.
Did you see the footage of that??
They were being interviewed in front of the house and Patsy was playing up to the camera's, smiling, laughing, batting her eyelids.
I remember I was new to the case when I saw it, and couldn't believe the way she was flirting with the camera.
Weren't these the same people that Patsy and John blamed for the way they were potrayed to the public? Why would she be so friendly to the press when it was the same press that persecuted them only years earlier?

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