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  1. #16
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    Something that I find interesting in these threads, is that Ross couldn't have killed Cooper, because he loved him.

    I have worked in childrens advocacy for many years. Currently, I work with our advocacy center with my therapy dog. One major thing I've learned, is that many (in my experience) parents who abuse, neglect, or murder their children...tell other people they love their child. Most have pictures, most take their kids to daycare, most have been on vacations f they can afford. Most seem proud. Most seem happy. Yes, there are those cases where a parent has a tangled history and it's just really obvious they don't care about their child(ren.) Those people always exist and they aren't rare either. However, the vast majority of the extreme cases I've been involved with, were "normal" families. I've learned that "love" does not inherently prevent harm. "Love" does not mean a person loves their child more than themselves, their vice, their dreams, their affair, etc. Love does not mean incapable of harm. Love is not PROOF.

    When I see Ross, I see someone capable of harming their child. Perhaps my view is colored by my experiences. It most likely is. But, I just cannot accept love as an excuse, justification, or proof. Ross was selfish, intensely cared about perceptions, hid dark parts of his life from people, broke the law, disrespected his wife, child, and family, prioritized his phone (and presumably sexting) over his job, etc. He was spiraling, IMO and allowing the side part of his life to consume his time. And he appeared to love his child. I cannot tell you how many men (and women) just like Ross I've dealt with who harmed, abused, neglected, or killed their child. Many of them never harmed their child, until they did. Many, many of them. Which is why I'd never be picked for a jury like this, lol. And it's why I don't buy his "love" defense. Love can damage as often as indifference, hate, and resentment. I don't know if the state proved intent, but I believe him CAPABLE of it.

    Obviously this all JMO.
    Last edited by blue22; 11-01-2016 at 09:42 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
    Count 2 - Felony Murder - Felony is count 4

    Count 3 - Felony Murder - Felony is count 5

    Count 4 - Cruelty to Children in the First Degree - "..maliciously caused Cooper Harris cruel and excessive physical pain"

    Count 5 - Cruelty to Children in the Second Degree - "..with criminal negligence caused Cooper Harris cruel and excessive physical pain"
    But what was his crime to make it criminal negligence?

    Now I know the sexting of the minor is a crime which will be dealt with. But are we saying that if he was only sexting with adults that day; Then the state wouldn't have a Cruelty or felony murder case?

    If so then the state is reaching by trying to get various murder charges to hinge from him sexting a minor that morning at work. Jmo
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)

  3. #18
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    Aug 2010
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    23
    Stoddard testified that the ME said preliminary report believes before noon. at approx 1:01:00 mark on the PC Hearing video. [/QUOTE]

    BBM. Isn't the whole point of a preliminary medical report that it is subject to change? I know we have seen cases in the past where the details changed from the initial report to trial. I guess I don't get why this is worrying. Some of the other discrepancies, absolutely, but not this one.

  4. #19
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    Jun 2016
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    Couple of thoughts.

    If it was pre-planned, why would RH have said Cooper said "school" when he wanted everyone to think Cooper was sleepy?

    I wonder he was sexting before he started taking testosterone. Not that it's an excuse, but can using it cause a crazy high sex drive?

  5. #20
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    Apr 2016
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    809
    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    Something that I find interesting in these threads, is that Ross couldn't have killed Cooper, because he loved him.

    I have worked in childrens advocacy for many years. Currently, I work with our advocacy center with my therapy dog. One major thing I've learned, is that many (in my experience) parents who abuse, neglect, or murder their children...tell other people they love their child. Most have pictures, most take their kids to daycare, most have been on vacations f they can afford. Most seem proud. Most seem happy. Yes, there are those cases where a parent has a tangled history and it's just really obvious they don't care about their child(ren.) Those people always exist and they aren't rare either. However, the vast majority of the extreme cases I've been involved with, were "normal" families. I've learned that "love" does not inherently prevent harm. "Love" does not mean a person loves their child more than themselves, their vice, their dreams, their affair, etc. Love does not mean incapable of harm. Love is not PROOF.

    When I see Ross, I see someone capable of harming their child. Perhaps my view is colored by my experiences. It most likely is. But, I just cannot accept love as an excuse, justification, or proof. Ross was selfish, intensely cared about perceptions, hid dark parts of his life from people, broke the law, disrespected his wife, child, and family, prioritized his phone (and presumably sexting) over his job, etc. He was spiraling, IMO and allowing the side part of his life to consume his time. And he appeared to love his child. I cannot tell you how many men (and women) just like Ross I've dealt with who harmed, abused, neglected, or killed their child. Many of them never harmed their child, until they did. Many, many of them. Which is why I'd never be picked for a jury like this, lol. And it's why I don't buy his "love" defense. Love can damage as often as indifference, hate, and resentment. I don't know if the state proved intent, but I believe him CAPABLE of it.

    Obviously this all JMO.
    After listening to the evidence, I also believe that Ross is capable of intentionally killing Cooper. Like you, I am not convinced that the State proved that beyond a reasonable doubt, but I absolutely believe that Ross could have killed Cooper with malice if he do desired,

    Quote Originally Posted by DexterMorgan View Post
    But what was his crime to make it criminal negligence?

    Now I know the sexting of the minor is a crime which will be dealt with. But are we saying that if he was only sexting with adults that day; Then the state wouldn't have a Cruelty or felony murder case?

    If so then the state is reaching by trying to get various murder charges to hinge from him sexting a minor that morning at work. Jmo
    The underlying felony is cruelty to children in the first or second degree. There is one count of felony murder for each child cruelty charge.


    Katydid, I was thinking about your earlier comment regarding stress being an important component of FBS. The DT is going to have a difficult time convincing jurors that Ross was particularly stressed. All of the testimony to this point indicates that there was nothing out-of-the-ordinary with Ross on June 18. Ross's temperament has repeatedly been described as "normal" on the day of Cooper's death.
    Last edited by GA_Peach; 11-01-2016 at 10:11 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DexterMorgan View Post
    But what was his crime to make it criminal negligence?

    Now I know the sexting of the minor is a crime which will be dealt with. But are we saying that if he was only sexting with adults that day; Then the state wouldn't have a Cruelty or felony murder case?

    If so then the state is reaching by trying to get various murder charges to hinge from him sexting a minor that morning at work. Jmo
    He can't be charged with criminal negligence, because Cooper died in a car while trusted to his care?

    I'm in a different state, but in the very few hot car cases we've had, the parent was charged with some degree of negligence. I don't recall any of them involved other factors like texting, but admittedly did not follow closely. There were plea bargains.

  7. #22
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    Apr 2016
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    809
    Just out of curiosity, have there been any other hot car deaths where the parent who left the child in the vehicle had just taken the child out for a special date (aka Daddy and Me time)? Why am I having such a hard believing that Ross decided to specifically carve time out of his morning to spend with Cooper but then promptly forgot him? I believe that FBS can happen to good, caring parents, and I have nothing but sympathy for them. However, I just cannot believe that Ross "forgot" Cooper when he supposedly wanted to spend extra time with Cooper.

    As an aside, the DT would be far better off to call their expert witnesses and rest IMO. These attempted character references are falling more than flat, and they are serving to remind me how many lives Ross has affected. Cooper and the minor girls were not his only victims. The DT did far better on cross. I am ready to hear Dr. Diamond.
    Last edited by GA_Peach; 11-01-2016 at 10:29 PM.

  8. #23
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    Just finished trying to watch this afternoon's testimony...curious to know while the parties were discussing things after court was dismissed, RH turned to his right twice and looked back behind him and smiled a sheepish grin....I tried to rewind and only could see a lady behind a man...no clue who she was or is,etc. Just thought after such traumatic events it was odd seeing him smile.
    Here.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nana46 View Post
    Just finished trying to watch this afternoon's testimony...curious to know while the parties were discussing things after court was dismissed, RH turned to his right twice and looked back behind him and smiled a sheepish grin....I tried to rewind and only could see a lady behind a man...no clue who she was or is,etc. Just thought after such traumatic events it was odd seeing him smile.
    Ross smiles frequently before the jury comes in and after they leave. I don't think that it means anything, but it's interesting to watch.

  10. #25
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    stoddard testified that the ME said preliminary report believes before noon. at approx 1:01:00 mark on the PC Hearing video


    Quote Originally Posted by LeeCR7 View Post
    Stoddard testified that the ME said preliminary report believes before noon. at approx 1:01:00 mark on the PC Hearing video.
    BBM. Isn't the whole point of a preliminary medical report that it is subject to change? I know we have seen cases in the past where the details changed from the initial report to trial. I guess I don't get why this is worrying. Some of the other discrepancies, absolutely, but not this one.
    Respectfully, I am not worried. Just pointing out. JMHO, There are dependencies in testimony. Also the State and Defense both disagree on this issue. So there's that. And as a matter of record, there has not been an amended Autopsy Report or Death Certificate. Manner of Death is UNDETERMINED and yet is on trial for different Murder charges. It shows typed up date of 6/20/2014. Signed 9/29/2014 and Death Certificate filed- Last day as of work as Dr. Frist retired

    Especially since they did the Hot Car test.

    9:26 a.m. Brani says around 3:30 p.m., the temperature reached 125 degrees.

    Harris Trial: Heat expert says temps peaked at 125F in Harris' SUV, but prosecutors elude Cooper could have been alive at lunch. @wsbtv pic.twitter.com/XNyYT5DLKp — Ross Cavitt | WSB-TV (@RossCavittWSB) October 19, 2016

    9:19 a.m. Brani says the temperatures inside and outside the car matched up around 11:35 a.m. at 88 degrees. At around 12:45, about the time Harris returned to his car after lunch, Brani says the temperature at the car seat was 98 degrees. He says the temperature in the car rose above 100 degrees shortly before 1 p.m.
    -----
    9:18 a.m. Brani says when testing began, the temperature inside the car was 65 degrees and outside was 80 degrees because the air conditioning had been running 30 minutes
    -----
    9:10 a.m. Brani says on June 18, 2014, the day of Cooper's death, the temperature was 91 degrees. On July 8, the day they did the heat study, it was 92 degrees. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harri...rial/458662093
    Last edited by arkansasmimi; 11-01-2016 at 10:37 PM.


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA_Peach View Post
    Just out of curiosity, have there been any other hot car deaths where the parent who left the child in the vehicle had just taken the child out for a special date (aka Daddy and Me time)? Why am I having such a hard believing that Ross decided to specifically carve time out of his morning to spend with Cooper but then promptly forgot him? I believe that FBS can happen to good, caring parents, and I have nothing but sympathy for them. However, I just cannot believe that Ross "forgot" Cooper when he supposedly wanted to spend extra time with Cooper.

    As an aside, the DT would be far better off to call their expert witnesses and rest IMO. These attempted character references are falling more than flat, and they are serving to remind me how many lives Ross has affected. Cooper and the minor girls were not his only victims. The DT did far better on cross. I am ready to hear Dr. Diamond.

    This #HotCaDeath case is different than the other cases as RH is charged with additional charges other than the Murders.
    JMHO I trust the Defense (and State too for that matter on their Rebuttal) to know all the evidence and their trial strategy We are just observers a legal proceeding. I find it interesting to watch learning something different with all witnesses. We can't see the jury. And the Def has to secure the record in case of Appeal. Also there are those other charges you reminded us about. JMHO this trial will have an influence on that one as well. Although the Grand Jury Indictments are different, they all came from same source electronics. JMHO

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardenista View Post
    Couple of thoughts.

    If it was pre-planned, why would RH have said Cooper said "school" when he wanted everyone to think Cooper was sleepy?

    I wonder he was sexting before he started taking testosterone. Not that it's an excuse, but can using it cause a crazy high sex drive?
    That's what I wondered in a post on prior thread. We also are not privy to his full medical history or medications. Heck made me wonder even more if it was his "exhibit" in the "exhibits" The State has said "his erect penis" not that any more gross but what if it was someone else porn

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA_Peach View Post
    After listening to the evidence, I also believe that Ross is capable of intentionally killing Cooper. Like you, I am not convinced that the State proved that beyond a reasonable doubt, but I absolutely believe that Ross could have killed Cooper with malice if he do desired,



    The underlying felony is cruelty to children in the first or second degree. There is one count of felony murder for each child cruelty charge.


    Katydid, I was thinking about your earlier comment regarding stress being an important component of FBS. The DT is going to have a difficult time convincing jurors that Ross was particularly stressed. All of the testimony to this point indicates that there was nothing out-of-the-ordinary with Ross on June 18. Ross's temperament has repeatedly been described as "normal" on the day of Cooper's death.
    Except for the Witness Mr. Brown his team leader/supervisor. RH had got in trouble Monday or Tuesday and was supposed to have his project finished on Wed. He emailed Mr. Brown afer midnight /early morning 6/18/14. Had been dodging his meetings, then left early on Wed. If I understood the witness correctly, he told Det back in 2014 this information and that RH had been forgetting stuff. Brandon Miller another co worker said same thing about work (behind on project and possible stressed) that morning. I truly am beginning to think on some things he does hold stuff in/appear normal to some and inappropriate emotions for others. I see a pattern or multiple patterns. From various witnesses as a whole. JMHO

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
    Except for the Witness Mr. Brown his team leader/supervisor. RH had got in trouble Monday or Tuesday and was supposed to have his project finished on Wed. He emailed Mr. Brown afer midnight /early morning 6/18/14. Had been dodging his meetings, then left early on Wed. If I understood the witness correctly, he told Det back in 2014 this information and that RH had been forgetting stuff. Brandon Miller another co worker said same thing about work (behind on project and possible stressed) that morning. I truly am beginning to think on some things he does hold stuff in/appear normal to some and inappropriate emotions for others. I see a pattern or multiple patterns. From various witnesses as a whole. JMHO
    Maybe Ross felt like they were picking on him by giving others the easier assignments and leaving Ross with the harder ones.

    Or Ross wanted to get fired.

    Because I do not understand why Ross would blow off these assignments without care plus showing up late daily and leaving work early.
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    Something that I find interesting in these threads, is that Ross couldn't have killed Cooper, because he loved him.

    I have worked in childrens advocacy for many years. Currently, I work with our advocacy center with my therapy dog. One major thing I've learned, is that many (in my experience) parents who abuse, neglect, or murder their children...tell other people they love their child. Most have pictures, most take their kids to daycare, most have been on vacations f they can afford. Most seem proud. Most seem happy. Yes, there are those cases where a parent has a tangled history and it's just really obvious they don't care about their child(ren.) Those people always exist and they aren't rare either. However, the vast majority of the extreme cases I've been involved with, were "normal" families. I've learned that "love" does not inherently prevent harm. "Love" does not mean a person loves their child more than themselves, their vice, their dreams, their affair, etc. Love does not mean incapable of harm. Love is not PROOF.

    When I see Ross, I see someone capable of harming their child. Perhaps my view is colored by my experiences. It most likely is. But, I just cannot accept love as an excuse, justification, or proof. Ross was selfish, intensely cared about perceptions, hid dark parts of his life from people, broke the law, disrespected his wife, child, and family, prioritized his phone (and presumably sexting) over his job, etc. He was spiraling, IMO and allowing the side part of his life to consume his time. And he appeared to love his child. I cannot tell you how many men (and women) just like Ross I've dealt with who harmed, abused, neglected, or killed their child. Many of them never harmed their child, until they did. Many, many of them. Which is why I'd never be picked for a jury like this, lol. And it's why I don't buy his "love" defense. Love can damage as often as indifference, hate, and resentment. I don't know if the state proved intent, but I believe him CAPABLE of it.

    Obviously this all JMO.
    Excellent post and I wholeheartedly agree.

    One close example of the extreme love someone can have for someone else and end up murdering that person is the common murder excuse of "If I cant have her then nobody will". There is no doubt that in many of those types of murders the person had extreme love for the person. So much so that they murdered the person because they could not or would not "let go" of that love even if they were the one that caused the marriage to dissolve.

    Another and maybe better example is the case of "John E. List" who murdered his entire family of 5 because he loved them so much and wanted to protect them from the evil in the world to "save their souls" according to a letter he wrote to his pastor right before the murders. He then took off like the coward he was and lived a new life until 18 years later the law finally caught up with him.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/29/ny...-is-wrong.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/nyregion/25list1.html

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