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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA_Peach View Post
    After listening to the evidence, I also believe that Ross is capable of intentionally killing Cooper. Like you, I am not convinced that the State proved that beyond a reasonable doubt, but I absolutely believe that Ross could have killed Cooper with malice if he do desired,



    The underlying felony is cruelty to children in the first or second degree. There is one count of felony murder for each child cruelty charge.

    Katydid, I was thinking about your earlier comment regarding stress being an important component of FBS. The DT is going to have a difficult time convincing jurors that Ross was particularly stressed. All of the testimony to this point indicates that there was nothing out-of-the-ordinary with Ross on June 18. Ross's temperament has repeatedly been described as "normal" on the day of Cooper's death.

    BBM

    I agree with you that it will be an uphill climb to convince the jury that he was particularly stressed that day. His coworkers said he seemed 'normal' at work and at lunchtime.

    But today, when speaking to Ross's team leader, the DT seemed to be trying to create that illusion. They spoke a few times about the 'ultimatum' he was given on the previous day---to finish his work by the end of the day. And then the night before the tragic death, Ross emailed his team leader at midnight, which was unusual at that late hour. And he said he was stuck and couldn't figure out how to do the task. So I think the DT wanted to bring that out, to highlight it as a stressful situation which would be on his mind that morning.

    But it will be interesting to see if the jury will accept that he was stressed. He did not seem concerned with working to smooth things over with his co-workers. Stopped for breakfast, came in late and missed the 9 am phone check in. Went out for lunch and left early for the movies. Did not seem all that stressed imo. Seems more like he was just trying to stay under the radar and hang in there.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
    " Criminal negligence" is not an offense and therefore cannot be the underlying felony for a felony murder conviction.

    Involuntary manslaughter also cannot be the predicate offense for felony murder and carries a much shorter sentencing range.

    http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/...ticle
    Yes. You're right. I know it is not a crime on it's own and it cannot be the underlying base for felony murder. I was typing fast and tired!! It would be child cruelty but that would imply that he intentionally left the child in the car or left him there without a care as to whether he died or not, which wouldn't make much sense. And I know involuntary manslaughter is not a predicate offense for felony murder. I wasn't trying to say that. Involuntary manslaughter is, per my research, a lesser included for murder and felony murder. (Or can be for the latter).
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    Something that I find interesting in these threads, is that Ross couldn't have killed Cooper, because he loved him.

    I have worked in childrens advocacy for many years. Currently, I work with our advocacy center with my therapy dog. One major thing I've learned, is that many (in my experience) parents who abuse, neglect, or murder their children...tell other people they love their child. Most have pictures, most take their kids to daycare, most have been on vacations f they can afford. Most seem proud. Most seem happy. Yes, there are those cases where a parent has a tangled history and it's just really obvious they don't care about their child(ren.) Those people always exist and they aren't rare either. However, the vast majority of the extreme cases I've been involved with, were "normal" families. I've learned that "love" does not inherently prevent harm. "Love" does not mean a person loves their child more than themselves, their vice, their dreams, their affair, etc. Love does not mean incapable of harm. Love is not PROOF.

    When I see Ross, I see someone capable of harming their child. Perhaps my view is colored by my experiences. It most likely is. But, I just cannot accept love as an excuse, justification, or proof. Ross was selfish, intensely cared about perceptions, hid dark parts of his life from people, broke the law, disrespected his wife, child, and family, prioritized his phone (and presumably sexting) over his job, etc. He was spiraling, IMO and allowing the side part of his life to consume his time. And he appeared to love his child. I cannot tell you how many men (and women) just like Ross I've dealt with who harmed, abused, neglected, or killed their child. Many of them never harmed their child, until they did. Many, many of them. Which is why I'd never be picked for a jury like this, lol. And it's why I don't buy his "love" defense. Love can damage as often as indifference, hate, and resentment. I don't know if the state proved intent, but I believe him CAPABLE of it.

    Obviously this all JMO.
    Or by websleuths. How many cases have we seen on here of kids battered to death over weeks or months. Tortured. And hundreds of people scream about how there is no way friends or neighbors or family didn't know. But they didn't, because the abusers put on a great front. And then we got to their social media. And over and over again, I see comments like, "What happened? She seemed to adore her child? She loved that kid. How did things change so fast?"

    Now please, I am not insinuating that Ross battered Cooper. But things change. A baby can be beloved. And then not, in the blink of an eye. I don't get it. Never will. but there is something in some people that is more selfish and ugly than their ability to love.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DexterMorgan View Post
    But what was his crime to make it criminal negligence?

    Now I know the sexting of the minor is a crime which will be dealt with. But are we saying that if he was only sexting with adults that day; Then the state wouldn't have a Cruelty or felony murder case?

    If so then the state is reaching by trying to get various murder charges to hinge from him sexting a minor that morning at work. Jmo
    "Criminal negligence in Georgia is more than just simple negligence. It requires that a person show a “willful, wanton, or reckless disregard for the safety of others” who might end up being injured by that person’s conduct. It is different from first degree cruelty to children because it doesn’t require the State to show that there was intent to cause cruel or excessive pain." https://www.pagepate.com/child-cruelty-georgia-law/

    Let's say a parent is so immersed in video games, which he plays for several hours, that he doesn't notice his two year old wandering out the door and the two year old eventually falls into a canal and drowns. Is that criminal negligence? How about if mom invites a few men over for "fun" and leaves her kid in the car when she gets home because one of them has arrived and she is excited and forgets, and spends the next hours having sex while her kid dies in the car. Criminal negligence? According to the above article, those parents may be guilty of child cruelty, in the second degree. That would be count five. I think obsessing over sexting while you are supposed to be caring for a vulnerable two year old child, especially during the risky task of transporting the child in a vehicle, might be the same.

    We shall see.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
    That's what I wondered in a post on prior thread. We also are not privy to his full medical history or medications. Heck made me wonder even more if it was his "exhibit" in the "exhibits" The State has said "his erect penis" not that any more gross but what if it was someone else porn


    I had this terrible, terrible, terrible thought. What if those people he sent pictures of Cooper wanted them for, something awful.......... have heard it said not to post too many pics of your child online as pedophiles use them..........horrible to even think about, but..........
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  6. #36
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    Earlier I mentioned he example of seat belt laws and people not wanting to use them because they didn't think it could happen to them. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that was what was going on with Ross. That was not what I meant. It was just thinking about why people don't put things in place to prevent FBS from happening, as in "they don't think it can happen to them."
    Another example (not about Ross just in general): we lived in TN for one year and spent a lot of time at state parks. I noticed that many of the lakes had a sign put up by the state that went like this: "x number of people have drowned in this lake, x number of those were wearing a life jacket." always a very small number of people who drowned were wearing a life jacket in other words. We had a friend who had a boat and went out with his family and fishing trips a lot. I asked him if he had life jackets for his boat, "oh yes" he told me, "we have to by law." "But do you wear them?" I asked. "No, we use them to sit on," he replied.
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  7. #37
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    {{"I see the state's strategy has been successful in creating so much prejudice against Ross that he can be convicted of murder without actual evidence. That's really not how our justice system is supposed to work, believe it or not."}} Quote

    I'm sorry I didn't right down which one of you wonderful people said that but I thought it perfectly expressed one of my thoughts and said it better than I could or did. I realize it's the job of LEO's to investigate possible crimes. And I expressed the ways in which I thought LH/LT had been treated the night her son died and how I really felt bad for her that she was sent home to grieve alone after RH was arrested (I believe other family got there early the next morning but I may be wrong). Someone said well that was their job, but you know I just don't think so. I think their job should have been to gather evidence, check the evidence for correctness and then if warranted arrest the person. That's not what I saw happen here IMO.
    The PROS arrested RH before they had hardly even begun to process evidence, what they let leak to the press caused this case to turn into a witch hunt, to the point that LH was afraid to answer the door.
    Somebody said something to the effect that it would just be that much longer until she found out he was a lying, cheating, pos. I don't know if that's the case since the PROS didn't find that out immediately, did they?
    I don't know which version of events LH/LT would have chosen, to have RH arrested when he was or say, a few days later. I do think she would have really, really preferred not to have the press after her like a pack of coon dogs after a coon. And in that respect LEO could have certainly conducted themselves better.
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  8. #38
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    I realize I may sound like a broken record since I have made this observation once before but I really think RH may be somewhere on the autism spectrum. I noticed earlier someone said he was textbook ADHD and that often goes with autism. Think about how Ross acted initially.

    Quote: "It is common – but not universal – for those with autism to have difficulty regulating emotions. This can take the form of seemingly “immature” behavior such as crying or having outbursts in inappropriate situations. It can also lead to disruptive and physically aggressive behavior. The tendency to “lose control” may be particularly pronounced in unfamiliar, overwhelming or frustrating situations. Frustration can also result in self-injurious behaviors such as head banging, hair pulling or self-biting."" https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/symptoms

    Doesn't that sound a awful lot like what happened following the death of Cooper. Ross in the parking lot pacing and crying out, acting frustrated and angry when the police told him to get off the phone, not understanding why they thought that was inappropriate, back to the alternating crying and pacing in the interview room, and here's the biggie for me---did you notice him biting himself on the fingers?

    I am not saying this excuses him forgetting Cooper, but don't you find it interesting and compelling?
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  9. #39
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    I think this whole thing will come down to Dr Diamond and his ability/inability to convince the jury that Ross could have innocently forgotten his child in that short timeframe, in such cramped conditions.

    I know that Dr D has a lot of successful past trials. BUt I read many of his past cases. And I think that every one of the defendants in those cases where pretty sympathetic characters. I did not see any of them that had the baggage that Ross carried with him in this trial. And I haven't seen any cases in which the driving time, from starting out to 'forgetting' ---was such a short time span.

    I think that the fact that he was texting about needing an escape from family responsibilities, right when he began his drive to daycare, then promptly forgot, is going to be a hurdle that he has never had to overcome in previous trials. I don't believe any of his previous defendants were actively sexting/seeing prostitutes/messing with minors, at the time in question.

    I will be curious to see how or if he is able to fashion the theory to fit this specific narrative.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  10. #40
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    They showed an immediate dislike for Ross once they went for the No Bail request. Jmo

    Now most rapists/murder suspects still get a bail option.

    But not Ross.

    If anything they should have given him an affordable bail and simply monitored him to see how quickly he started sexting again and hooking up with lovers.

    Because 1 sext text at the funeral would have put the nail in his coffin similar to how Scott Peterson was through once it was found out that he was courting Amber during Lacies vigil. Jmo.
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DexterMorgan View Post
    They showed an immediate dislike for Ross once they went for the No Bail request. Jmo

    Now most rapists/murder suspects still get a bail option.

    But not Ross.

    If anything they should have given him an affordable bail and simply monitored him to see how quickly he started sexting again and hooking up with lovers.

    Because 1 sext text at the funeral would have put the nail in his coffin similar to how Scott Peterson was through once it was found out that he was courting Amber during Lacies vigil. Jmo.



    ​You're absolutely right. I wonder why they didn't do that? Like you said, that would be stick a fork in him, he's done.
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  12. #42
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    [QUOTE=katydid23;12905534]I think this whole thing will come down to Dr Diamond and his ability/inability to convince the jury that Ross could have innocently forgotten his child in that short timeframe, in such cramped conditions.

    I know that Dr D has a lot of successful past trials. BUt I read many of his past cases. And I think that every one of the defendants in those cases where pretty sympathetic characters. I did not see any of them that had the baggage that Ross carried with him in this trial. And I haven't seen any cases in which the driving time, from starting out to 'forgetting' ---was such a short time span.

    I think that the fact that he was texting about needing an escape from family responsibilities, right when he began his drive to daycare, then promptly forgot, is going to be a hurdle that he has never had to overcome in previous trials. I don't believe any of his previous defendants were actively sexting/seeing prostitutes/messing with minors, at the time in question.

    I will be curious to see how or if he is able to fashion the theory to fit this specific narrative.[/QUOTE]

    This is really going to be a hurdle for him. I absolutely believe FBS happens. I pretty much think it didn't happen here. I've been going back and forth between two theories, either the amount of sexting and immersion therein caused him to forget Cooper (and IMO that's different from FBS) or he left him in the car and planned to come back later for him and got busy and forgot (also not FBS IMO).
    Not my circus, really not my monkeys

  13. #43
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    I have wondered about that theory too----that he planned to leave him for a few minutes while he showed his face at work. Then he'd zip him over to DC and return. The backing into the shady spot makes some sense there.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    I have wondered about that theory too----that he planned to leave him for a few minutes while he showed his face at work. Then he'd zip him over to DC and return. The backing into the shady spot makes some sense there.
    That would have been a great defense if he was actually working that day.

    But now he would have to admit that he was showing his face at work first; But then he got blinded with the immediate sexting.
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA_Peach View Post
    Just out of curiosity, have there been any other hot car deaths where the parent who left the child in the vehicle had just taken the child out for a special date (aka Daddy and Me time)? Why am I having such a hard believing that Ross decided to specifically carve time out of his morning to spend with Cooper but then promptly forgot him? I believe that FBS can happen to good, caring parents, and I have nothing but sympathy for them. However, I just cannot believe that Ross "forgot" Cooper when he supposedly wanted to spend extra time with Cooper.
    Yeah, quite a few of them. For example. Judge Wade Naramore stopped at McDonald's for breakfast with his son, which was out of the ordinary, then went to work and left him in the car. He drove around doing errands with the dead child in the car, including picking up the child's swimming kit so he could take him swimming later, and then set off to daycare to pick the child up. Then he noticed the child was already in the car with him, dead.

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