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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    Not abuse rsd1200....drug use.. Meth creates psychopathic personalities ....and an extreme unpredictably brazened and violent behavior..

    TN Senators convened March 11th, 2014 for a judiciary committee hearing to look at several bills aimed at curbing meth use in Tennessee, and TBI Director Mark Gwyn shared some pains of the drug from the front lines of law enforcement. It’s relevant in this hearing because TBI Director Mark Gwyn said Holly Bobo’s murder kidnapping case has to do with meth.

    “I worked one of the first methamphetamine-related murders back into the 90s, where a guy kidnapped two young men, tortured them for seven days, killed both of them, threw them off into Center Hill Lake,” Gwyn said. “Fast-forward to 2014, and I thought in my career that would be the only time I would ever see anything like that.”
    .
    I don't see him as a meth user. Most folks can't just casually use meth. If they can, it's b/c they have other drugs to fall back on when they aren't using meth. This guy is sick all on his lonesome. No drugs needed.
    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    .
    I don't see him as a meth user. Most folks can't just casually use meth. If they can, it's b/c they have other drugs to fall back on when they aren't using meth. This guy is sick all on his lonesome. No drugs needed.
    He doesn't have the skin or the frame of a meth user.
    “Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.” -- Terry Pratchett

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_lab7410 View Post
    A little confused, while he may *seem to dote on his mother a bit, there were posts where he claimed he was beaten by the mother, mother's new husband and his natural father.

    Either way, he implied there was much neglect and/or abuse for any circumstance which they perceived as "wrong" or 'unmasculine.' The only example I recall specifically was the comment about "putting a glass down too hard."

    IMO, these are the types of comments that are often given by children from dysfunctional homes, their recall memory simultaneously reflects self-blame and self-deprecation. The language is consistent with their remarkably lackadaisical attitude and conveys their avoidance at remarking punitively at the provider(s) violently disrupting their boundaries. I think it's fair to say this is reflected back by their lack of empathy towards any of their own future victims and further contributes at dehumanizing/violating them.

    I only state any of this as I kept seeing the comment about being unruly in nursery and thought to myself, well gee, of course! you can neglect basic human child care at that age (the younger you do so, the more behavioral issues you'll have at early development - you'd be amazed at what foster care/group homes have stories about at the earliest of these kids upbringings! And they do lash out!). They are so quick to blame it on genetics, meanwhile, we are not entirely able to rule about social environments. Psychologists have not definitively stated those *possible* brain abnormalities are really responsible for anti-social behavior. The prison inmates have all types of stories of anti-social upbringing, narcissism, and neglect, yet their parents don't get researched. Those whom bring up these individuals rarely have a complete story, IMO, there are huge gaps, too many notions of pity and helplessness due to tantrums (meanwhile there are no psychological or medical evalulations claiming things were going on at home - possibly because the child would reveal someone is harming them and doctors are lead to reporting it to the police?? Also, the parents co-workers, interview them, close co-workers know all, IMO), and at this point it goes to say the prisoner is at an ends financially - creating a conflict of interest in regards to blaming anyone of early authority in their life (they'll need canteen $$). Lashing out as an infant can also be a response of not having ones basic needs met for food, diaper changes, abusive intolerance, etc etc. Anyhow, at junctions like these I am always hesitant to strictly rely upon the 'helpless mother's' allegations of sudden bouts of childhood anger. There weren't any doctors reports or psychological notes about his early development so.. They should 'vet them' before we can fairly judge whom or what is culpable in creating this monster, IMO. Just my two cents

    At one point, Todd was just a child, I think it's entirely plausible if circumstances were different, we'd see a different adult human. Children exhibiting irritability can be provided with care, proper medication, and/or receive coping techniques. This isn't even someone with an intelligence deficit here. Truth is, there are psychopaths out there that haven't and will not murder anyone - they've been brought up will so this can be a major factor. Their adult brain scans just happen to reveal they're psychopathic.

    Just a side note - kids in school I can recall from back then, any of the teens with 'anger issues,' pretty much always had a bad family home life. I suppose the extraordinary example exists, I just find the 'born psychopath' bit fantasized a bit by some parents. It's a method to absolve them much of the time, IMO, I've seen foster families do this all the time.
    I agree with you. I personally believe that nurture plays a much larger role over nature. I think Todd was severely neglected as a baby and toddler by his narcissistic or codependent mother and clearly psycho dad... they both failed him. He may have inherited certain traits but remaining in that environment allowed those traits to become habits and ingrained into his personality. Furthermore, i believe that if he was removed from that environment at an early age and lived with a family who nurtured him properly and loved him and showed him empathy, compassion, love, and forgiveness, he might have been able to harness some of his bad traits and with proper education, therapy and medication, he may have been a functioning, well socialized and decent member of society. But his parents failed him miserably. In the end, they will not pay for their grievous mistakes... and yes he does deserve the harshest penalty possible. I know some will disagree with me. But i am just posting my opinion.

    I am raising a child with some issues. His father is a diagnosed narcissitic personality disorder among other things. He had me fooled for sure. But i am literally doing everything i can to make sure my child is raised with love, therapy and proper medication. I dont want him to grow up like his dad or worse, turn into a sociopathic or psychopathic murderer. And while he was exhibiting some similarities of his father, the last 2 yrs we have overcome a lot and hes doing much better. So i truly believe nurture is critical and can overturn nature. :-) thank you for reading. Ill go back to lurking. Love reading everyones theories. Love yall!

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_lab7410 View Post
    I would like to respectfully disagree on something here, antisocial personalities are sociopaths and/or psychopaths. They just give off the vibe they care, they are exceptionally pathological in cases of borderline personality disorder alone, let alone narcissism. Basically they are highly adaptive, are constantly learning, mimic normal human behavior, and excel at this after a certain age (as their minds swindle around with calculated thought-processes that the average person presumes is authentic. They may be functional sociopaths and/or psychopaths, that is all. They can marry, keep friends, but they use them all in some shape or another. There is probably no genuine connection with anyone in where they may feel safe enough to communicate their true motives and rather dark perception of the world at that point. And if confronted with their trigger, or trigger persons (social persons, if you will), you may glimpse the more stranger behavior they keep hidden from their 'close' connections/family.
    .
    Respectfully, there is disagreement in whether they are psycho / sociopaths. Some have categorized them as being distinctly different disorders. Sociopaths are different from Psychopaths. ADPs are highly adaptive, I agree. Not all of them are murderers either, but they all will manipulate and have problems with authority. Surprisingly, people with CDs and ADs, adapt fairly well to the structure of prison.
    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    .
    I just don't believe most of what he's said. Look how easily he lies. He was born this way or something happened to him at an early age, that caused his disorders. I can see Mom being all over the place. I can see Mom being afraid of him. We don't know that she didn't tell someone else. Even if she told the police? Big deal. He'd have to have actually, physically, harmed her, for them to act.
    Well she was saying he was a big problem, yet used those years he was left out in the wind, as an example to the judge (any normal person would look at it as, wow, yup, why am I listening to you/mother about this then?)... IMO, she as in as much denial and just as unbelievable as TK would be in this case. Yes, killers lie about things. But something the majority of them relate to with vivid details is receiving training in violence/mimicry of hostility to appease guardian -stories of neglect/abuse (which is why I stated those comments - prior to finding KB btw, seemed to resonate as a point of conflict to genetics-only violence).

    I'm probably rehashing that here, but anyway, it's really something I've personally seen in cases where there seems to be such contradicting information when you're investigating the biological parents prior to foster adoption. It's a tough choice, do you let your kid out there? Or do you take him to be institutionalized? Would he have raped someone in institution? IMO, you have to take the risk, or else you're risking others. Abandonment wasn't the option either way. And if you called the police enough, did she even try? Talk to doctors? My point was either way, these stories are incomplete, most often the environment for abuse are there, it's not as simple as the story we're given by the parents - they are in the news with people contacting them oft times left and right, they have self-interest at preserving their reputations, let alone their privacy. They really aren't going to let you perceive them as anything other than a victim themselves regardless of what happened, they are prepared with what to say when they give reporters their comments. I also find that as abuse/neglect parents age, they tend to rewrite their physical history with their children. Even - if - it's - on -record!
    Last edited by b_lab7410; 11-07-2016 at 11:51 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    .
    Respectfully, there is disagreement in whether they are psycho / sociopaths. Some have categorized them as being distinctly different disorders. Sociopaths are different from Psychopaths. ADPs are highly adaptive, I agree. Not all of them are murderers either, but they all will manipulate and have problems with authority. Surprisingly, people with CDs and ADs, adapt fairly well to the structure of prison.

    Can you explain a little more the difference and what you think Todd is? Also could you define the acornyms you are using. Thanks so much. Learning a lot !!!!

    Im still learning about these mental health issues, particularly due to my child. He has sensory processing disorder, anxiety, ADHD, oppositional defiance/mood disorder. I do thinknits genetic bc his father has these plus narcissitic personality disorder. Hes taking medications and therapy and the symtpoms have all but disappeared, minus occasional issues. Hes much happier and so am i!!!! I hope when hes an adult he will continue to be succesful in managing it on his own. I firmly believe in nurture over nature.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveLight View Post
    Hmmm! My profile of him is all over the place right now.
    He seems to have had issues from early on. Maybe he did have some birth trauma. But I will be honest when I say that I do believe there are bad seeds out there. You can give them all the love and attention and counseling you want but at the end of the day when they become adults and responsible for themselves, they will become what they want to become. I know many won't agree with me on this. But I do feel there are bad seeds. I think they are VERY rare and most of them are bad people who have been caught or yet to be caught. I think some of these bad seeds are extremely intelligent and know exactly how to manipulate their situations. If they want to get out of counseling they will pretend to be better and cured. They are master manipulators.
    I also think that their environment can make matters far worse. I can see where some of their parents just wash their hands of them. They even fear them at a young age.
    The thing is there isn't enough facilities out there to help in these situations. They end up in prison and that only teaches them ways to get away with crimes without getting caught!
    I think he is extremely off the charts smart which makes him very scary.
    I think he thought of ways to pursue his needs when he got out of prison. He was smart. He snowed so many people and I think he gets a thrill out of all of his crimes and talking and teasing LE and others about them. He is STILL in control and he is going to enjoy it thoroughly.
    He doesn't care about others at all. I think with everything he does it's calculated.
    I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to see his mother to tell her she's the reason for his crimes. To rub it in that she created the monster. And to give her a picture to remind her everyday.
    As far as the college tuition.... I would be questioning that child. There may be a dang good reason he is doing that. To keep the child and mom quiet. "I will make sure you are taken care of as long as you keep your mouth shut about what you know."
    That demand list doesn't show me he cares about anyone. It tells me he is still "in control" or wants to feel like he is.
    He's a narcissist and nothing he does is without good reason. It is to directly give him pleasure.
    He's a thrill killer + a grudge collector + a true psychopath + poor impulse control (the possible random quick kills)+ control freak (keeping hostages) + Master manipulator = nightmare.

    I'd almost venture to say that he may have a split personality. Could explain the differences in the crimes and methods or killing and torture.
    Plus he kept up a facade of being successful. Enough to fool most people.
    It reminds me of what Ann Rule said once about Ted Bundy. He had many sides of him depending on who you were in his life. He could be the great friend and seemingly innocent guy, then the perfect boyfriend, then the monster. You saw what he wanted you to see.
    They are able to compartmentalize all these different versions of themselves and fool people into trusting them.
    This guy is a rare breed. I'm not sure if we will ever know what his true body count is unfortunately.
    He obviously got a thrill out of messaging the family members with lies and cryptic messages.
    He scares the hell out of me.
    He seems like the person that you might run into at a store and smile at or not smile at and they would follow you and kill you over some imagined wrong you have done to them.
    Those might be the random kills.
    He is a true monster. He's what nightmares are made of.
    I think the experts were right on the money with their analysis.
    The hell he is opening up now will give him nothing but pleasure. There is no remorse. Each victim will continue to give him excitement as he relives the crimes. I think he will be very detailed in his descriptions too. Because it is part of the game for him. Before it's over, even the investigators will be his victims too.
    I pray for all of his victims and their families right now. I think we will never know all of those he killed. I doubt he even knows some of their names. But I can guarantee you he can describe the crime and the location.
    I just pray he gives up all the crimes and tells everything. Even if it gives him a thrill, let him talk so these cases can be solved and the victims and their families have proper closure.
    I am thinking the same thing too.

    Todd Kohlhepp has shades of Eric Harris, Andrew Cunanan, Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez, and Elliot Rodger. I can also see Jerry Sandusky, Lori Drew, and Jodi Arias as well.

    Sandusky is not an injustice collector, unlike the rest. I would not be surprised if Kohlhepp is a very negative person and a constant complainer. Kohlhepp is a very angry person and is consumed by anger, like all of them excluding Sandusky. Kohlhepp lives a life of resentment at everything that in his world wrongs him. Rodger, Drew, and Arias have more pent up anger issues. which is also likely the case with Kohlhepp.

    Rodger is more socially awkward than Kohlhepp. Kohlhepp is not as socially awkward.

    Cunanan, Rodger, Arias, and Drew are more driven by extreme envy of others. Harris was known to be envious of others. Not much is known of Kohlhepp is consumed by envy, which is possible.

    Sandusky, Cunanan, Harris, Ramirez, Bundy, Arias, Rodger, and Drew are deceptive and manipulative in nature. That is how they manage to get their victims. They are pathological liars.

    Kohlhepp likely feared rejection and abandonment, which is the case with Arias and Drew. Like them, Kohlhepp thought about rejection and kidnapping and killing people would stop his fear of rejection. The sense of abandonment fueled his resentment, which impacted his psyche.

    Kohlhepp is likely a megalomaniac as he is grandiose and highly narcissistic. Sandusky, Cunanan, Harris, Ramirez, Bundy, and Rodger are extreme megalomaniacs, especially Sandusky, Harris, and Rodger. Arias showed some level of megalomania, but she has more of a huge ego who looks for respect. Drew has a huge ego, but looks to be accepted and liked. The rest want to be respected and even feared.

    Many have criminal history, like Harris, Bundy, Ramirez, Cunanan, and Sandusky. Arias had history of drug use, which caused conflict with her parents. Not much is known about Drew's past.
    Last edited by HMSHood; 11-08-2016 at 12:15 AM.




    HMS Hood
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    Motto: Ventis Secundis ("With Favourable Winds")
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    Well said PositiveLight . Sadly, TK will claim more victims in the future, imo... The Jurors and alternates that will be forced to witness his atrocities and relive his henious crimes and be traumatized for life.. It would be reasonable to conclude that TK captured his many evil deeds on camera..
    You know I had the same thought.
    It's very possible he videoed his victims and maybe even sold videos and photos. There is a sick underworld that will pay big money for that. (Disgusting!) This may have been some of the sources of his income. JMOO
    (I'm so sorry to the victims and families by mentioning this. But it may lead to more discoveries of victims if the LE knows what to look for. My prayers are with all of you! Including those working the case and will be drug through this case once it goes to trial.)
    He's doing exactly what I expected him to do to. Represent himself. Idiot. I hope if he does have to cross examine his victims, the angels surround them and give them the strength they need to face this monster hopefully for the last time.
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    Well said PositiveLight . Sadly, TK will claim more victims in the future, imo... The Jurors and alternates that will be forced to witness his atrocities and relive his henious crimes and be traumatized for life.. It would be reasonable to conclude that TK captured his many evil deeds on camera..
    I would not be surprised if he had more victims.




    HMS Hood
    Mighty Hood
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    Motto: Ventis Secundis ("With Favourable Winds")
    May 15, 1920-May 24, 1941

  10. #55
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    I'm reading the 1987 investigative report now. He had no remorse and had zero excuse. In fact, he blamed Dad, FOR an excuse. He drank, but, no, wasn't drunk. He may have had some sort of black out. No wait, it was b/c Dad left me alone... yeah, right. As for Mom, it does seem like she was at her wits end, and even states she exhausted her finances seeking help for him. He threatened to kill her if he didn't get to go to stay with Dad. Unless you've dealt w/a family member with one of these disorders, you will never know...
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    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    .
    I just don't believe most of what he's said. Look how easily he lies. He was born this way or something happened to him at an early age, that caused his disorders. I can see Mom being all over the place. I can see Mom being afraid of him. We don't know that she didn't tell someone else. Even if she told the police? Big deal. He'd have to have actually, physically, harmed her, for them to act. This is why I believe he was sent to the private school. Private schools aren't cheap. It was two hours away from where his mother lived. When you are at your wit's end w/ a kid with these diagnosis, and in that era there were no support groups for parents, no internet to talk to other parents, or research alternatives, then you do what you have to do to maintain your sanity, and safety. But even if she helped him, and wrote that letter, she knew to be afraid of him. That's my gut feeling on Mom. She is probably horrified, and relieved, and feeling safe, right now. I may be wrong. She may have beat the Holy ***** out of him and tortured him relentlessly, along with Dad, Step-Dad, and Grandparents, but I just don't buy what he's selling.
    I agree.
    I am not saying that his parents weren't excellent parents by no means. But I think he just felt the need to blame everyone else for his actions. Never taking responsibility. I've been around a few of these kids who were just bad seeds. They had a great support system but it didn't matter. I really feel that their brains are wired totally different.
    They constantly push boundaries and blame others always. It's never their fault. Sorry TK but it is ALL your fault. Many kids coming from abusive homes do not go on to become a serial killer.
    TK didn't feel rules applied to him. He can't feel empathy. Actually he seems the type to get a massive enjoyment at other's suffering.
    I think people have a hard time swallowing the fact that there are kids out there who are born psychopaths. We don't want to think an innocent child could even think of such things. We want to believe only the best. Then these type of cases come along and give you a reality check.
    I'm definitely not ruling out the possibility that he may have also been attracted to men. Being in prison in your formative years can lead to it being the only option available. You take what you can get for lack of a better term.
    So I'm not going to look at only females as victims and masculine men. But young men and young girls too.
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    .
    Respectfully, there is disagreement in whether they are psycho / sociopaths. Some have categorized them as being distinctly different disorders. Sociopaths are different from Psychopaths. ADPs are highly adaptive, I agree. Not all of them are murderers either, but they all will manipulate and have problems with authority. Surprisingly, people with CDs and ADs, adapt fairly well to the structure of prison.
    Yes, but I believe the most recent material out there basically just classifies psychopathy as an even worse of the sociopath. All of us are a little sociopathic, normal human condition. Is not the basis of conduct disorder, that one can 'grow out of it.' I believe that's their way of saying, they can get past possible impairment due to growth, learning, time, nurture, medication, etc etc. Those whom just make mistakes, except these are mistakes that can involve hurting animals, violent attacks resulting in arrest, burglary. I mean, honestly, growing out of or being medicated from what sounds like neurological and possibly environmental problems is one thing, but lack of empathy still seems present. That'll just have to be anyone's take on it, because I would imagine unless those scientists took brain scans, it's not really distinguishable from the real thing in an adult. I mean, the treatment and behavior are similar.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokeechic View Post
    Can you explain a little more the difference and what you think Todd is? Also could you define the acornyms you are using. Thanks so much. Learning a lot !!!!

    Im still learning about these mental health issues, particularly due to my child. He has sensory processing disorder, anxiety, ADHD, oppositional defiance/mood disorder. I do thinknits genetic bc his father has these plus narcissitic personality disorder. Hes taking medications and therapy and the symtpoms have all but disappeared, minus occasional issues. Hes much happier and so am i!!!! I hope when hes an adult he will continue to be succesful in managing it on his own. I firmly believe in nurture over nature.
    CD is a Conduct Disorder : It is just a term given to a range of childhood antisocial disorders.

    ODD is Oppositional Defiant Disorder: Basically, the child can't handle authority figures.

    ADP is Antisocial personality disorder: ADP is when there is a pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15, however, a Conduct Disorder prior to age 15 has also been diagnosed. They have trouble with societal norms, deceitfulness, impulsiveness, aggressiveness, total disregard for their safety and the safety of others, (risktaking), they're irresponsible, and have a lack of remorse for others.
    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokeechic View Post
    snipped.. But his parents failed him miserably. In the end, they will not pay for their grievous mistakes... and yes he does deserve the harshest penalty possible.
    He's responsible, in the end... yes

    I am raising a child with some issues. His father is a diagnosed narcissitic personality disorder among other things. He had me fooled for sure. But i am literally doing everything i can to make sure my child is raised with love, therapy and proper medication. I dont want him to grow up like his dad or worse, turn into a sociopathic or psychopathic murderer. And while he was exhibiting some similarities of his father, the last 2 yrs we have overcome a lot and hes doing much better. So i truly believe nurture is critical and can overturn nature. :-) thank you for reading. Ill go back to lurking. Love reading everyones theories. Love yall!
    So glad to see you proceeded to try and nip it in the bud, I had to do the same with one of my younger siblings (whom has a twin), though he is older now and his narcissism has progressed. They are most untreatable if you don't get to them in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokeechic View Post
    Can you explain a little more the difference and what you think Todd is? Also could you define the acornyms you are using. Thanks so much. Learning a lot !!!!

    Im still learning about these mental health issues, particularly due to my child. He has sensory processing disorder, anxiety, ADHD, oppositional defiance/mood disorder. I do thinknits genetic bc his father has these plus narcissitic personality disorder. Hes taking medications and therapy and the symtpoms have all but disappeared, minus occasional issues. Hes much happier and so am i!!!! I hope when hes an adult he will continue to be succesful in managing it on his own. I firmly believe in nurture over nature.
    I'm praying everything works out for you and your child!
    It sounds like you are very proactive in his care.
    I would also recommend taking your son to a doctor who treats holistically. The reason I say this is a friend of mine had a son who was having SEVERE issues and was uncontrollable. She was reaching out everywhere for help. Someone recommended a doctor who tested him for poisons and such. It came back that he had extremely toxic levels of copper in his system. So high in fact the doctor said it was the worst case he had ever seen.
    They had copper piping in their home and she used copper pots. For some reason his body couldn't rid it from his system. After they got it out of his system, he was absolutely fine. He is a normal kid now. You never know what is possibly going on so keep searching for answers and be your childs advocate! Hugs! Wishing you all the best!
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein

    Everything I write is my very own opinion unless I give a link. I can and will change my mind when the evidence leads me in another direction.

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