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  1. #1
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    Indefensible: The Missing Truth - Michael Griesbach

    How many of my fellow Websleuthers have read this?

    I would urge all those that feel Avery is innocent following the MaM Docu Series, to take an evening to read it. At the turn of 2016, I thought he was innocent and then spent months researching the court documentation as it became available.

    This evidence changed my mind during the course of this year and despite that this book does go on a little in terms of Authors self reference & positioning, the presented facts point to Avery's Guilt.

    I would even go so far as to say that Griesbach is not as vehement as I am over Avery's Guilt. What say you, fellow Sleuthers?
    We are not all born equal so Justice always has to be.

  2. #2
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    I don't have the time to go looking, but Griesbach has also made statements in his book, on facebook, on other sites, that are just factually wrong. He admits to not knowing everything too. He tried to "fix" his reputation on reddit and they tore him apart IMO lol

    Here is something interesting from the Wisconsin Innocence Project, they felt the need to put this out there in regards to MG.

    https://law.wisc.edu/newsletter/Wisc...ect_2016-09-20

    While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosen_Fenger View Post
    How many of my fellow Websleuthers have read this?

    I would urge all those that feel Avery is innocent following the MaM Docu Series, to take an evening to read it. At the turn of 2016, I thought he was innocent and then spent months researching the court documentation as it became available.

    This evidence changed my mind during the course of this year and despite that this book does go on a little in terms of Authors self reference & positioning, the presented facts point to Avery's Guilt.

    I would even go so far as to say that Griesbach is not as vehement as I am over Avery's Guilt. What say you, fellow Sleuthers?
    I say if one is making their own " facts " as they go...BIG waste of time, IMO.
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  4. #4
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    Haven't read it yet so can't give an opinion. I intend to though

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexter75 View Post
    I say if one is making their own " facts " as they go...BIG waste of time, IMO.
    Out of curiosity, have you read any of his books?

    Its funny because "making their own "facts" as they go" is what MaM did. Perhaps that is what they should have called it?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    Out of curiosity, have you read any of his books?

    Its funny because "making their own "facts" as they go" is what MaM did. Perhaps that is what they should have called it?
    What facts did MAM make? Could you please link me to those?

    Nope, I have way to busy a life to waste my time on biased nonsense. JMO

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  7. #7
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    Have finished the book and even though I have always believed that MaM heavily edited the show to be anti LE, it was still a shock to see to what extent these two women went to "frame" LE as corrupt. The splicing of Colborn's testimony was mindboggling.

    The one thing that I was getting annoyed at is that MG referred to them throughout the book as "documentarians". This is an insult to true documentarians. These two women are straight up propagandists that should have been charged with fraud imo. Especially if the threats to harm and blowup LEO were carried through by the idiots who were making them.

    I do like that he talked about another potential suspect. Goes to show SA was not the sole focus regardless of what the MaM tried to make its viewers believe.



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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexter75 View Post
    What facts did MAM make? Could you please link me to those?

    Nope, I have way to busy a life to waste my time on biased nonsense. JMO

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    Come on Dexter75 - you must know that MaM was edited to within an inch of its life? You comment about biased nonsense nearly made me state the obvious about MaM, but I have resisted because in interviews, the makers claim to say they are looking for scrutiny of the system, rather than the specific case.

    I'll run with that and give them the benefit of the doubt.

    You ask for evidence of facts MaM made? Well, as Limaes pointed out, the splicing of Colborns testimony and the repeated showing of his same facial expression when asked two totally different questions, is a start.

    That said, they did not make up any facts. More, just made people arrive at conclusions, because of the narrative. (Picture Lenk walking up to the stand at the end of a program, as the suggestion of planted evidence was heard from the defence.)

    I could list the anomalies in the documentary, but I'd have one of the Hipster Beards by the time I finished it, and I look ridiculous enough as it is.
    We are not all born equal so Justice always has to be.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    (Snipped by my dog as he is a dab hand with a pair of scissors.)

    The one thing that I was getting annoyed at is that MG referred to them throughout the book as "documentarians". This is an insult to true documentarians. These two women are straight up propagandists that should have been charged with fraud imo. Especially if the threats to harm and blowup LEO were carried through by the idiots who were making them.
    I get that.

    But. (and it is a 'but', not a 'however.') That is the issue with all documentaries. There are countless other examples I've seen in the past that actually, missed out really important facts. (I see you are in Australia so might not be familiar with Bloody Sunday, or the Hillsborough Disaster, but there have been supposed documentaries about both, which presented a totally false narrative, which in both cases, has been proven to be false.)

    As your for point on the threats, yes mate, you are absolutely bang on the money with that. How ridiculous that someone with no connection, would suggest they would wish harm on someone that had only been accused of wrong doing by the defence in a court case.

    MaM has served a purpose for its makers, that is for sure. They have made millions, as will Zellner, Nirider and the gang. Even Duffin is in on the attention seeking, as anyone could see Dassey was not getting released earlier this month.

    And it has got us discussing it from our armchairs. If only we got paid for it. :-)
    We are not all born equal so Justice always has to be.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosen_Fenger View Post
    Come on Dexter75 - you must know that MaM was edited to within an inch of its life? You comment about biased nonsense nearly made me state the obvious about MaM, but I have resisted because in interviews, the makers claim to say they are looking for scrutiny of the system, rather than the specific case.

    I'll run with that and give them the benefit of the doubt.

    You ask for evidence of facts MaM made? Well, as Limaes pointed out, the splicing of Colborns testimony and the repeated showing of his same facial expression when asked two totally different questions, is a start.

    That said, they did not make up any facts. More, just made people arrive at conclusions, because of the narrative. (Picture Lenk walking up to the stand at the end of a program, as the suggestion of planted evidence was heard from the defence.)

    I could list the anomalies in the documentary, but I'd have one of the Hipster Beards by the time I finished it, and I look ridiculous enough as it is.
    Ya know, like I have said before, I've never relied on or put much stock into the documentary. I believe MAM was made to start a conversation.
    It's definitely served it's purpose😉

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosen_Fenger View Post
    I get that.

    But. (and it is a 'but', not a 'however.') That is the issue with all documentaries. There are countless other examples I've seen in the past that actually, missed out really important facts. (I see you are in Australia so might not be familiar with Bloody Sunday, or the Hillsborough Disaster, but there have been supposed documentaries about both, which presented a totally false narrative, which in both cases, has been proven to be false.)

    As your for point on the threats, yes mate, you are absolutely bang on the money with that. How ridiculous that someone with no connection, would suggest they would wish harm on someone that had only been accused of wrong doing by the defence in a court case.

    MaM has served a purpose for its makers, that is for sure. They have made millions, as will Zellner, Nirider and the gang. Even Duffin is in on the attention seeking, as anyone could see Dassey was not getting released earlier this month.

    And it has got us discussing it from our armchairs. If only we got paid for it. :-)
    .
    Link please??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    .
    Link please??
    I'd be interested to see that too my friend😉

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexter75 View Post
    Ya know, like I have said before, I've never relied on or put much stock into the documentary. I believe MAM was made to start a conversation.
    It's definitely served it's purpose

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  14. #14
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    You know what I'd like to see?

    A documentary heavily slanted in favor of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office.

    Of course it would be all fake and biased as hell, but I'd like to see some shrewd and cunning film makers put together a doc that convinces millions of people, around the world, that Avery and Dassey got a fair trial and are guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. Here's the catch though:

    They would have to show actual footage. Oh, they can slice it, dice it and add in the theme song from Cops, if they want...But they will still have to come up with footage that shows even ONE piece of evidence that was NOT found by or in the presence of Colburn or Lenk.

    They would need footage of the thorough interrogation(s) of those closest to TH, and at least a snippet or two of them following up on other possible suspects...

    They would need to include coverage of Kratz giving a press conference that was truthful, sensitive and
    non -inflamitory.

    It would need to also include MCSO's meticulous handling of evidence, and record keeping...

    Oh and we must not forget... they have to include footage of Brendan being adequately represented, and questioned in the presence of counsel. some footage that makes that child look like he knows which end is UP, for even a second, would be nice as well.

    They must totally play up that TH's bones were found in Avery's yard, but leave, on the cutting room floor, that her bones were ALSO found in other places.

    They might as well show footage of SA holding a blowtorch to the feet of a cat strung up in a tree...because THAT is how far off the path of literal events that actually took place they would have to go to in order to show that county as anything but corrupt!

    If SA committed this horrific murder, silently and cleanly, in the comfort of his own home, in between phone calls trying to arrange to have Jody over, I would like to see some proof of that that is not circumstantial please.

    I doubt anyone could string together 30 minutes of such a documentary, what with all that would have to be "left out".

    No one can even say where and how TH was killed. How on earth can say who killed her?
    Last edited by Safeguard; 11-30-2016 at 07:34 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
    You know what I'd like to see?

    A documentary heavily slanted in favor of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office.

    Of course it would be all fake and biased as hell, but I'd like to see some shrewd and cunning film makers put together a doc that convinces millions of people, around the world, that Avery and Dassey got a fair trial and are guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. Here's the catch though:

    They would have to show actual footage. Oh, they can slice it, dice it and add in the theme song from Cops, if they want...But they will still have to come up with footage that shows even ONE piece of evidence that was NOT found by or in the presence of Colburn or Lenk.

    They would need footage of the thorough interrogation(s) of those closest to TH, and at least a snippet or two of them following up on other possible suspects...

    They would need to include coverage of Kratz giving a press conference that was truthful, sensitive and
    non -inflamitory.

    It would need to also include MCSO's meticulous handling of evidence, and record keeping...

    Oh and we must not forget... they have to include footage of Brendan being adequately represented, and questioned in the presence of counsel. some footage that makes that child look like he knows which end is UP, for even a second, would be nice as well.

    They must totally play up that TH's bones were found in Avery's yard, but leave, on the cutting room floor, that her bones were ALSO found in other places.

    They might as well show footage of SA holding a blowtorch to the feet of a cat strung up in a tree...because THAT is how far off the path of literal events that actually took place they would have to go to in order to show that county as anything but corrupt!

    If SA committed this horrific murder, silently and cleanly, in the comfort of his own home, in between phone calls trying to arrange to have Jody over, I would like to see some proof of that that is not circumstantial please.

    I doubt anyone could string together 30 minutes of such a documentary, what with all that would have to be "left out".

    No one can even say where and how TH was killed. How on earth can say who killed her?
    .
    Well, well look who showed up from lurking...LOL

    Well presented!!!

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