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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    This includes a quote from MG's FB page:

    "Since the documentary aired, the 2014 book has been generating a ton of one-star reviews on Amazon. Griesbach complained about the bad reviews in a Facebook comment, in which he revealed that in the first 18 months of its release, the book had an average rating of four stars. Now the book has an average of 2.5 stars. “I’m all for First Amendment free expression,” he wrote. “But sabotaging a book because you’ve been brainwashed and don’t like its conclusion, to use a legal term, is bull*****.”"

    http://www.adweek.com/galleycat/how-...k-sales/116832



    I certainly hope he is not embarking on a personal vendetta against KZ due to his feelings of being sabotaged.That would be highly unprofessional.
    He was sabotaged <modsnip>

    There is a YouTube video that encourages SA supporters to go to Amazon and give him bad reviews. There are comments on this video from those who admit that they did do just that. You will probably see a comment from me on there too

    I can't link to the video on the boards because the woman on the video uses disgusting language but if you want, I will PM you the link. Or...I may search through Reddit for discussion of it and link to that.

    All just my opinion based upon what I seen and heard personally.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 02-04-2017 at 11:45 PM. Reason: considered offensive

  2. #62
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    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    I don't care what reviews Griesbach's (or anyone's) books or articles got or gets. That doesn't keep me from reading something and making up my own mind about it. That I also learned some things I didn't know before was a bonus.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    He was sabotaged <modsnip>

    There is a YouTube video that encourages SA supporters to go to Amazon and give him bad reviews. There are comments on this video from those who admit that they did do just that. You will probably see a comment from me on there too

    I can't link to the video on the boards because the woman on the video uses disgusting language but if you want, I will PM you the link. Or...I may search through Reddit for discussion of it and link to that.

    All just my opinion based upon what I seen and heard personally.
    I'd love to see that.
    Thank you😉

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  4. #64
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    Why do people like MG want to write a book about a murder case? What we all should be reading are the Trial transcripts and chains of evidence etc. from the actual legal cases, not someone's personal & biased opinion on something or other. Opinions are just that they are just opinions, and some people agree and other people don't. That's just the way it is in human nature and we all have differing opinions.
    Has Kathleen Zellner ever written a book to promote herself & earn income from it?
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  5. #65
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    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    Have you read this book, Karinna? If you had you would have your question(s) answered about why this person wrote this (and his prior) book and what his connection is to this killer.

    I find it interesting that those who have not read this book would join a thread about the book to tell others what they should be reading, in a case that by all accounts many people only know about because of a highly manipulated miniseries that has, at times, taken rather creative license with the truth.

    It's further ironic that in a search for facts versus speculation and hyperbole in that case it's considered "denigrating" to look at and comment on the defense attorney and her firm's record, her confusing and ever changing words and disappearing posts in her social media/Twitter account, her tweeting history, but at the same time it's not denigrating to criticize an author of a book that wasn't even read and this unread book has been deemed "just opinions."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Have you read this book, Karinna? If you had you would have your question(s) answered about why this person wrote this (and his prior) book and what his connection is to this killer.

    I find it interesting that those who have not read this book would join a thread about the book to tell others what they should be reading, in a case that by all accounts many people only know about because of a highly manipulated miniseries that has, at times, taken rather creative license with the truth.

    It's further ironic that in a search for facts versus speculation and hyperbole in that case it's considered "denigrating" to look at and comment on the defense attorney and her firm's record, her confusing and ever changing words and disappearing posts in her social media/Twitter account, her tweeting history, but at the same time it's not denigrating to criticize an author of a book that wasn't even read and this unread book has been deemed "just opinions."
    They're my opinions and i am entitled to them as you are yours on whatever thread i wish to participate in as long as i don't violate TOS.
    And i only suggested not dictated on what i feel deserves reading. All IMO.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  7. #67
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    And MG works in Manitowoc, that tells me all i need to know and that's also my opinion.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    His book does not have very good reviews. One reviewer called it mostly "lengthy narcissistic ramblings" and that he seems mostly disappointed that he didn't get as much attention in the documentary as he felt he deserved. Think I'll pass.
    Apparently MG is just 'stating his opinions' and doesn't really know any more than anyone else.

    I've lost count of the number of books he's written to make a quick buck out of Steven's ordeal - is this the third or fourth already?

    Since the story isn't over yet, there doesn't seem much point in reading a book about it.

    All IMO
    Last edited by proudfootz; 02-05-2017 at 08:11 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    I don't care what reviews Griesbach's (or anyone's) books or articles got or gets. That doesn't keep me from reading something and making up my own mind about it. That I also learned some things I didn't know before was a bonus.
    Not me, I usually read reviews first and then decide whether it is worth my time. In this case, nope.
    "To see him obviously framed
    Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
    Where justice is a game
    Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
    Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
    While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
    An innocent man in a living hell"

    Bob Dylan
    Nobel Prize for Literature, 2016

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    Not me, I usually read reviews first and then decide whether it is worth my time. In this case, nope.
    In previous versions of this book, I understand Griesbach claims a set of Teresa's keys were seen to have fallen from the end table.

    "But a few days later, a couple of Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department officers, detective Jim Lenk and Sargeant Andy Colburn, searched the bedroom again.....they wanted to check behind a bookcase. They moved it away from a wall and a SET OF KEYS fell out, landing on the floor right in from of them. They were Teresa's KEYS..."

    p 282 'The Innocent Killer' by Michael Griesbach

    Does the author clear up what happened to the rest of these keys? Or why did the police testify in court they did not actually see the keys fall out but merely assumed the lone key somehow came from the bookcase?

    8 Lieutenant Lenk got about right here,
    9 his feet would have been right here, so he was in
    10 the room, and said something to the effect of,
    11 there's a key on the floor here, or, look,
    12 there's a key. I don't know what his exact
    13 verbiage was but he identified that there was a
    14 key on the floor.
    15 I turned around, as I wasn't very far
    16 away, I turned around and looked and I observed
    17 this key, lying right where it is.

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-2007Feb20.pdf


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
    In previous versions of this book, I understand Griesbach claims a set of Teresa's keys were seen to have fallen from the end table.

    "But a few days later, a couple of Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department officers, detective Jim Lenk and Sargeant Andy Colburn, searched the bedroom again.....they wanted to check behind a bookcase. They moved it away from a wall and a SET OF KEYS fell out, landing on the floor right in from of them. They were Teresa's KEYS..."

    p 282 'The Innocent Killer' by Michael Griesbach

    Does the author clear up what happened to the rest of these keys? Or why did the police testify in court they did not actually see the keys fall out but merely assumed the lone key somehow came from the bookcase?

    8 Lieutenant Lenk got about right here,
    9 his feet would have been right here, so he was in
    10 the room, and said something to the effect of,
    11 there's a key on the floor here, or, look,
    12 there's a key. I don't know what his exact
    13 verbiage was but he identified that there was a
    14 key on the floor.
    15 I turned around, as I wasn't very far
    16 away, I turned around and looked and I observed
    17 this key, lying right where it is.

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-2007Feb20.pdf
    My understanding is that his books contains a lot of weird factual errors like that, but it has been a long time since I looked into his books, so maybe I'm mis-remembering.

    To me, the best (or most useful) book about this case would be one that explains some of the forensic stuff. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about DNA and fingerprint collecting. For example, a lot of people are surprised there were no fingerprints in the RAV4, but it is kinda hard to find usable fingerprints. It is not unheard of that police have to try a second time when printing someone recently arrested because the first time they got the person's prints didn't pan out so well. And that is in a police station under more or less ideal circumstances. Imagine how hard it is on a car with textured surfaces. Try finding a really clear print on the screen of your phone.

    I feel like, at this point in the game, a book complaining about MaM is a waste of time as all the real, serious discussions have largely stopped relying on it in any meaningful way. It has been over a year since I watched MaM, I cannot remember what facial expressions they showed Lenk having to certain questions, I cannot remember which portions of the call were shown and which weren't. Complaining about those things feels like a distraction more than it feels constructive. There are a lot of really good books that could be written about the Halbach case, one focusing on what is in MaM and what isn't in MaM, is not one of them.

    PS: Anyone who says "I'm all about First Amendment free expression, but..." Is not about free expression.
    It's like saying "I'm not racist, but..." or "Now, domestic violence is wrong, but..."

    PPS: In regards to Scrapping the current adversarial system, Bollocks.
    He seems angry that the deck isn't stacked in favor of the prosecution enough. It is foolish to pretend the prosecution is the only one interested in the truth and I doubt the "continental" system is all that different.

  12. #72
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    WRT fingerprints on the vehicle - apparently some were found, but not matched to anyone on the police 'suspect' list:

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-Recovered.pdf

    So if these prints belong to Teresa's killer(s), we can cross the Averys and the Dasseys off the list.

    IMO

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
    WRT fingerprints on the vehicle - apparently some were found, but not matched to anyone on the police 'suspect' list:

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-Recovered.pdf

    So if these prints belong to Teresa's killer(s), we can cross the Averys and the Dasseys off the list.

    IMO
    Yes, I should have been specific. In my mind I had the "how did Avery leave blood inside the car but no prints" question.

    But, yes, there were unidentified prints. Those need to be compared to a larger sample of people. At trial, the print expert was asked if they were compared to Tadych and the objection to that was sustained.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Vesalot View Post
    Yes, I should have been specific. In my mind I had the "how did Avery leave blood inside the car but no prints" question.

    But, yes, there were unidentified prints. Those need to be compared to a larger sample of people. At trial, the print expert was asked if they were compared to Tadych and the objection to that was sustained.
    The blood/no prints has been brought up in the RAV & other threads IIRC
    I agree, printing isn't always as simple as one might think😉
    Included that little tidbit into just a few facts I listed to make a point that it wasn't just " speculation " that kept the discussion of this case going😊

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Vesalot View Post
    My understanding is that his books contains a lot of weird factual errors like that, but it has been a long time since I looked into his books, so maybe I'm mis-remembering.

    To me, the best (or most useful) book about this case would be one that explains some of the forensic stuff. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about DNA and fingerprint collecting. For example, a lot of people are surprised there were no fingerprints in the RAV4, but it is kinda hard to find usable fingerprints. It is not unheard of that police have to try a second time when printing someone recently arrested because the first time they got the person's prints didn't pan out so well. And that is in a police station under more or less ideal circumstances. Imagine how hard it is on a car with textured surfaces. Try finding a really clear print on the screen of your phone.

    I feel like, at this point in the game, a book complaining about MaM is a waste of time as all the real, serious discussions have largely stopped relying on it in any meaningful way. It has been over a year since I watched MaM, I cannot remember what facial expressions they showed Lenk having to certain questions, I cannot remember which portions of the call were shown and which weren't. Complaining about those things feels like a distraction more than it feels constructive. There are a lot of really good books that could be written about the Halbach case, one focusing on what is in MaM and what isn't in MaM, is not one of them.

    PS: Anyone who says "I'm all about First Amendment free expression, but..." Is not about free expression.
    It's like saying "I'm not racist, but..." or "Now, domestic violence is wrong, but..."

    PPS: In regards to Scrapping the current adversarial system, Bollocks.
    He seems angry that the deck isn't stacked in favor of the prosecution enough. It is foolish to pretend the prosecution is the only one interested in the truth and I doubt the "continental" system is all that different.
    BBM Absolutely! I don't recall the last time I looked up anything from the series itself. The transcripts, documents, and photo's have been coming out for about a year now, and before that, I remember reading BD's trial transcripts. I don't recall the last time someone quoted the series? I'm still interested in knowing if the trial questions/answers were spliced and which one's they are in MaM, especially if the answers are factually incorrect and contradict the transcripts. Might have to go do some digging.

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