Joel Rifkin's thoughts on LISK

bessie

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Please discuss Joel Rifkin as relates to LISK in this thread. Thanks.

I noticed in some posts a interest in whether Joel Rifkin had anything to say about LISK, here's the link and the article. Bear in mind Joel Rifkin doesn't deserve any more attention than he's already gotten.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...issive-sloppy-tactics-maniac-article-1.474203


SIMONE WEICHSELBAUM
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Thursday, December 16, 2010, 4:00 AM
DANNEMORA, N.Y. - Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
With the air of a veteran schooling an amateur, Rifkin said the sicko being hunted by cops and the FBI should never have left all the corpses in one place.
"I dumped them hundreds of miles apart," Rifkin proudly told the Daily News Wednesday in a 70-minute interview at the upstate prison where he will spend the rest of his life. Rifkin killed 17 prostitutes in a four-year spree - and took pains to dispose of the bodies. His victims were scattered in rivers and wooded areas from the east end of Long Island to upstate. Three were never found. Rifkin suggested the killer was sloppy for picking a single dumping ground because it alerted cops to the likelihood of a serial killer and brought more heat to the case.


image.jpg



"America breeds serial killers," Rifkin said. "You don't see any from Europe."


"No family," he explained, occasionally breaking into laughter as he discussed his bloody history. "They can be gone six or eight months, and no one is looking."
"I became addicted to sex and companionship," said Rifkin, a long, gray ponytail hanging down his back. There was no sentimentality as he described what he did to the women after they were beaten and strangled. "You carve 'em like a turkey," he said. He said the slayings were a "primal urge" that he justified by reminding himself the women were drug-addicted hookers with no self-respect.

Manhattan and spreading their remains across nine counties.
"They pull up the Jane Does and compare notes," he said.
SIMONE WEICHSELBAUM
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Thursday, December 16, 2010, 4:00 AM
DANNEMORA, N.Y. - Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach. With the air of a veteran schooling an amateur, Rifkin said the sicko being hunted by cops and the FBI should never have left all the corpses in one place. "I dumped them hundreds of miles apart," Rifkin proudly told the Daily News Wednesday in a 70-minute interview at the upstate prison where he will spend the rest of his life.

The Daily News front pages told the story after Joel Rifkin was caught (Daily News).
He speculated that the suspect would have shared some of his experiences: growing up lonely in the suburbs, being mocked and bullied, grappling with anger.
"America breeds serial killers," Rifkin said. "You don't see any from Europe."
Police have not identified the Oak Beach victims, but they are investigating possible links to two missing hookers - which did not surprise Rifkin.
He said prostitutes are obvious targets for serial slayers."No family," he explained, occasionally breaking into laughter as he discussed his bloody history. "They can be gone six or eight months, and no one is looking." The two missing women in the Suffolk County probe advertised their services on [URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Craigslist+Inc.]craigslist[/url], which didn't exist when Rifkin was hunting for victims. He focused on anonymous street hookers, not expensive escorts.

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I just noticed something in the posted picture I made. Look at the headline above the Joel Rifkin headline in the 2nd photo... Just a little giggle on that particular headline.... LOL
 
Thanks for moving my post to a new thread. Joel Rifkin came up in a thread about TKS. Someone posted that JR was never asked about LISK which was inaccurate. JR loves attention and would never miss a opportunity to hear himself talk. I posted my comment and the article pertaining to the first two episodes of TKS because in episode 2 Joel Rifkin's first victim was shown. Otherwise there's nothing more I wish to say about JR or his POV. He's a monster acting like a victim, a real coward. Even in prison he's in PC because the General Population had no use for him and he would have wound up dead himself so he was put into PC right along with the other lovely monster David Berkowitz.....
 
​I find this absolutely fascinating, and potentially the most accurate profiling of LISK. His Statement "America breeds serial killers, You don't see any in Europe", is evident he resents some circumstances perhaps of his upbringing particularly here in "America", something or somethings happened to him here that he feels doesn't happen to children in Europe, likely pertaining heavily to differences in schooling, Its apparent he feels victimized, probably as a means of self justification. He also speculated that LISK would share similar circumstances, growing up lonely in the suburbs (perhaps an only child? Likely little to no EMOTIONAL attachments to biological parents), being ridiculed (likely by parent, teacher or other prominent adult figures and children alike) and dealing with anger, This is likely very accurate. He also describes a motivation for committing murder particularly against estranged females as a primitive urge, this is very important! It implicates a revert in societal Psychology, somewhere in his life he reverted back to a more instinctual psychology, this allows him to not value human life, just as a lion doesn't sympathize with its prey. This revert in psychology is likely due to lack of any emotional attachments. This also indicates an unpredictability to the suspect profile, due to lack of specific personal motivation. I think Rifkin is likely very accurate, If LISK is ever caught, he will likely share many life experiences with Rifkin.
 
I find this absolutely fascinating, and potentially the most accurate profiling of LISK.
I agree you. Rifkin offers something none of the other profilers can on LISK: tacit knowledge.

Rifkin didn’t theorize about who he was, he just did what he did, and now he’s giving the world a little insight into his reality. I think we should listen.

Its apparent he [Rifkin] feels victimized, probably as a means of self justification.
I rarely theorize in WS about LISK, but…

I believe the same is true with LISK. He sees himself as a victim. I would not be surprised if LISK had acquired a chronic and debilitating STD as a young man from a promiscuous girl – hence, his use of the word “*advertiser censored*” in his phone calls. The shock value of saying this word to the family of his victims is LISK continuing to punish the victim for her "sins" posthumously. Taunting phone calls are how he shames the people closest to her, as a warning and maybe proselytizing. He clearly has an axe to grind. I think this guy grew up in a religious, ritualistic, and conformist household that holds a woman to Madonna standards. As a young man, he may have ventured over to the “*advertiser censored*” side and has been paying for that deviant choice ever since. Since his physical pain will never go away, his rage and sense of duty compel him to transfer that pain onto as many “*advertiser censored*” he can ensnare in his trap and then end their existence.

Unlike Rifkin, I think LISK is polished. He’s considered handsome, he dresses immaculately, projects a professional image – he’s not over-stated but he does impress. He works “all the time” as the owner of his own business. He travels – all over Long Island and to see clients in Manhattan. He has no time for a formal relationship – but he reveals to these woman that he’s lonely and they absolutely can relate. They sympathize, and in doing so he has humanized himself for them. He behaves like the good boy he was taught to be – with manners and courtesy. He cultivates the relationship with trust and sets up expectations that are met with each visit. He looks like he has money, he easily parted with it, and always upheld his end of the bargain. This was done multiple times over a long span of time (if we know nothing else about LISK, at least we know he’s consistent). He's more of a quasi-boyfriend each woman was happy to see than a john. He was not typical. He treated them respectfully, with just the right amount of soft-spoken flattery and flirtation. He wants “his girl” to feel exclusive which is why their meetings and relationship are secret. That is his ruse. On TKS, Dave Schaller says “this guy got into her head”. I think it is: this guy got into their hearts. They were loyal to him, but a street-savvy woman is not going to reveal the existence of this person to anyone. In their trade, romance is the anti-thesis of self-protection. It has no place. But LISK was nothing more than a salesman wooing his target. With all salesmen there is an agenda and skill is essential. In LISK’s mind this was exactly like closing a sale: project an image in the beginning, nurture the relationship inch-by-inch, and wait for the opportune moment to close the deal. Textbook.

Also unlike Rifkin, who worked alone, I believe LISK does not. I think LISK congregates with others who are like-minded and feel it’s their mission to exploit and then eradicate such “sinful” women. They all have roles – procurement, torture, murder, clean-up/disposal. There’s a hierarchy and LISK’s role on the org chart is both procurer and “cleaner”. He was doing a job he believed in.

All in my opinion.
 
There are TONS of serial killers in the UK , watch "Crimes that shocked Great Brit" also, I fear that this will spin LISK out of control and more girls could be at risk, this was a very risky interview.... but I am sure millions read it in hopes he would shed some light on maybe being in contact with the serial killer in some way, shape or form. - such as hannibal and buffalo bill or the dark dragon
 
Europe and South America and Africa, all have serial killers.

1) Luis Garavito: Columbia's Nightmare.
2) Pedro Rodrigues Filho: Brazil's Most Prolific Serial Killer.
3) Yang Xinhai: China's Monster Killer.
4) Alexander Pichushkin: A Killer With Twisted Goals.
5) Anatoly Onoprienko: Ukraine's Beast.
5 International Serial Killers Who You Might Not Have Heard Of, But ...
crimefeed.com/.../five-international-serial-killers-terrify-even-hardest-american-criminal/
 
This guy creeps me out. But doesn't seem like a killer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Rifkin calls LISK amatuer, yet he got caught with a dead body in his vehicle, didn't he. Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Isn't Narcissism practically a prerequisite for serial killers?

Rifkin took great measures to make sure he disposed of the body / parts quiet a distance from each other. This method allowed him to operate relatively undercover during his reign of terror. Ironic it was his eventual undoing - more specifically driving a pickup with no license plates on the southern state parkway.

Back in those days a pickup truck without a cab had to be registered as commercial vehicle which weren't allowed on parkways. It was like shining a spotlight on himself & makes me wonder if after killing 17 women he was ready to be caught...or thrived on the thrill.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/joel-rifkin-murdered-17-women-arrested-1993-article-1.2689951


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I think the whole area is a dumping ground. Who knows the connection, but the four in burlap show a pattern that separates from the others. As far as theories to the kind of sadist calls his victims familes to taunt, as mentioned earlier- psychological profiles of this kind of killer may have been victims of severe domestic violence, often a father figure and the mother a victim too but unable to stop the abuse of the child. My guess is the killer of girls in the burlap sacks, and the possibly other related 4 patterned deaths in Atlantic City and Daytona beach were from a male who experienced incredibly terrifying domestic abuse at the hands of a father figure
 
None from Europe? The US is definitely the serial killer capital, but Europe has had plenty.
 
Serial killers study other serial killers, it may be a mutual admiration thing. They are also somewhat of celebrities in jail. I recall being told a story by a guard in the Nassau County lock up, Rifkin was having an argument with Colin Ferguson about who killed more, Ferguson's come back was they Rifkin may have killed more, but they were all women.

Back to the celebrity thing, these inmates may be shunned by other inmates but they are immensely popular with the outside world. Especially with women. I saw an article on the BTK killer, he got more mail than anyone else he was locked up with. Serial killers may be misfits on the outside, but they do revel in their fan base.

Rifkin would be the first guy I would talk with on the LISK case. I don't know if Ridgway was approached for his input. Most of these guys are deep down cut out of the same bolt of cloth.
 
None from Europe? The US is definitely the serial killer capital, but Europe has had plenty.
Quite. I'm new here so go easy on me. However one thing stuck out for me how much the AC4 killings reminded me of an infamous solved SK spree in my own country of England from 10 years ago -

Ipswich Prostitute Murders - SK Steve Wright.

I had to check the timelines of the victims, they overlap. However I think you can rule out him pond hopping.

I do think its possibly harder in Europe to have as many at large as the US for two reasons.

- Europe is more of a big brother society, especially in the UK with CCTV and number plate recognition practically every 100 yards.

- The language barriers. Europe is about the size of the US, but not many Italians can speak Swedish for example. So not as much room to roam.

I have my own theories on LISK, Manorville Torso Killer and Eastbound Stranger, but I'm going to see how TKS ends before commenting.
 
Everyone has a pet theory about whodunit. Rifkin and Bundy changed up their methods in time. Ridgway moved the corpses around although he was by far not the brightest.

Maybe LISK has changed his method as well and we're just seeing his latest work (that has been discovered to date) at Gilgo. The one we see seems to be consistent between the GB4 victims. Its possible he has done the Manorville killings and decided that cutting up people was not the way to go.
 
Is this irony? Rifkin, in jail doing life because he got caught, giving "advice" to a serial killer who nobody has any real idea to his identity? His ego is interfering with his objectivity, and he's not really in any position to criticise uncaught serial killers.

He's also wrong about European SKs. Idiot.
 
Everyone has a pet theory about whodunit. Rifkin and Bundy changed up their methods in time. Ridgway moved the corpses around although he was by far not the brightest.

Maybe LISK has changed his method as well and we're just seeing his latest work (that has been discovered to date) at Gilgo. The one we see seems to be consistent between the GB4 victims. Its possible he has done the Manorville killings and decided that cutting up people was not the way to go.

Has there ever been a SK who's gone from sadism/butchering (as seen with the Manorville killings), scattering around the parts, to less grotesque - asphyxiation (as seen with GB4) and keeping the bodies together as trophies? Genuinely interested as I'm inclined to think it'd go the opposite way when the killer gets more confident / needs a bigger thrill to satisfy his addiction.
 
Has there ever been a SK who's gone from sadism/butchering (as seen with the Manorville killings), scattering around the parts, to less grotesque - asphyxiation (as seen with GB4) and keeping the bodies together as trophies? Genuinely interested as I'm inclined to think it'd go the opposite way when the killer gets more confident / needs a bigger thrill to satisfy his addiction.

Not getting caught is paramount to the SK. And they hone their skills thinking of that. The GB4 were neatly done, I'd say he was well-polished by then. Cutting up a body is messy especially if you have to transport it any distance. You leave evidence everywhere.
 
Not getting caught is paramount to the SK. And they hone their skills thinking of that. The GB4 were neatly done, I'd say he was well-polished by then. Cutting up a body is messy especially if you have to transport it any distance. You leave evidence everywhere.

I agree NYRF. I think Joel Rifkin's super ego gets in the way of logical thinking, and I get the sense he seems jealous of LISK.

I can think of one reason why a killer might stop dismembering bodies. What if the killer(s) had to leave the place in which he committed murders and did not live alone? Or what if he lived in such close proximity to others that dismemberment and placement in smaller bags seemed a better option to not be caught? What if by the time the GB4 and perhaps others's remains found along Long Island's south shore were murdered and dumped, the killer(s) had a place in which carrying whole human bodies to a transport vehicle was no longer a risk regarding discovery?

I cannot rule out in my mind any possible scenario with respect to how many killers there were/are, whether LISK(s) are or are not still operating but found a new and undiscovered dump site, whether LISK(s) moved and is operating some place else not yet discovered or that LISK(s) is/are dead, in prison for something else, too ill/disabled to continue, or is/are on a rare hiatus.
 

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