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  1. #1
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    Sharks, warblers, deer on endangered species list

    NAIROBI (Reuters) - The world's second largest shark, a bird found in the Garden of Eden and Central Asia's only true deer were among 11 new species given the title of "endangered" by countries around the world on Friday.

    Around 95 countries, members of the Convention on Migratory Species (CMS), agreed that several birds and mammals faced

    increasing threats to their survival and needed more protection.

    "The 11 species will join a listing of around 107 migratory animals which are considered endangered and thereby given special status by all member states," Marco Barbieri, CMS scientific officer, told journalists.

    "This means countries will need to take concerted action to protect the species, such as conservation projects and protection measures," he said at the end of a CMS conference in the Kenyan capital.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051125/..._endangered_dc

  2. #2
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    True deer in Asia?

    I guess that's different than the deer we have here? Because I see deer here like I have never seen them before, running across the street in groups of 2 or 3.

    And I've seen quite a few dead ones by the road. My boyfriend and I have been disagreeing lately about hunting season. I say we're building so many homes and businesses that we're taking up their homes and their land and he says they only destroy the foliage and we have to kill them or the population gets out of control.

    I so disagree. But that's just my ignorance I guess.
    I mean, then I get crazy and say, oh I guess that is why God made killers to control our population???

    I know, I know...

    I just think we're taking their homes away.
    They ran free long before we were around.

  3. #3
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    I'm sure there are many species of deer; here there has been disagreement over deer; of course it is development that takes away their habitat, but feeding them and overpopulation problems make it a hazzard to drive in some places.

    Here I believe they adopted a policy of capturing some of them and taking them to ranchland; they were going to shoot them and people protested.

    We tend to coexist with them; they are fun to watch and if you just slow down driving at night they don't usually come out to the major highways. Hunters say they cut down on the overpopulation, and I really don't see that much wrong with it since most hunters eat the meat and make sausage, etc.

    I would never be able to shoot one myself though, and neither did my son want to. He is a gentle soul.

    "All creatures great and small, the Lord God made them all"; that's what I believe anyway.

  4. #4
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    I live in a rural area. Anytime of the year, you will run across deer lying beside the road where they have been hit by a car. They not only cause damage, due to the car accidents- people have died in those accidents.
    Fall is the worst. This is their breeding seaspn, They tend to be more active, to access the highways more.
    The predators for deer have mostly been driven out, do to the increasing number of homes and being overhunted. So there are few checks on controlling their population. Ohio has a deer hunting season, to help control the population. Venison is good meat. I have eaten it. Most hunters will have the deer processed, and will eat the meat, they aren't just killed at random and left there.
    Deer are beautiful, graceful creatures. I love to watch them. I have personally been involved in 4 car/deer accidents. Three of the four totalled my cars. Man killed the deer's natural predators, so man now has to be the predator. I would prefer that if a deer is killed, that it be put in a freezer, than left to rot alongside the road. I do believe in controlled hunting, as long as the meat can be put to use.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  5. #5
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    I would bet more reckless drivers cause accidents than deer do.

    Deer wouldn't be causing accidents anywhere if they had someplace to go since we keep taking their land away
    And I don't really think it's an overpopulation thing, but perhaps I am naive. I just see here in my town that we keep tearing down trees and green space to build houses, strip malls, buildings and lots and leave no place for them to roam except the streets and highways.

    I'm just too sensitive.
    Last edited by PrayersForMaura; 11-25-2005 at 05:51 PM.

  6. #6
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    There used to be a field called "urban planning", but that seems to be pretty nonexistant in this country now.

    Around here it's more like "developers rule", and "go for the greed", not green.

    I've been driving many years, but never hit a deer, and I definitely live in deer country.

  7. #7
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    It just sickens me! Humans hunt animals to extinction. Monday was the first day of deer season where I live and when I went out to go to work Monday morning it sounded like a war field out there. All I could think was "Run deer, run!" Population control my a$$! Stupid humans are the most over populated species there is. So when's it going to open season on them? Abuse is abuse...murder is murder. I pray we wisen up and start being kinder to ALL of natures animal friends...or I think there will be a whole lot of souls cast outside the pearly gates. My husband included...
    ~*~Think Globally, Act Locally! Please Recycle! ~*~

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ember
    It just sickens me! Humans hunt animals to extinction. Monday was the first day of deer season where I live and when I went out to go to work Monday morning it sounded like a war field out there. All I could think was "Run deer, run!" Population control my a$$! Stupid humans are the most over populated species there is. So when's it going to open season on them? Abuse is abuse...murder is murder. I pray we wisen up and start being kinder to ALL of natures animal friends...or I think there will be a whole lot of souls cast outside the pearly gates. My husband included...
    Not to be morose or anything, but it is open season on humans. We have seen more baby cases of abuse than ever. Also, entire families wiped out. The killers take aim at anyone than upsets their plans.

  9. #9
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    If you lived in deer country and you ever drove at dusk, you would know.
    One of my accidents, I was driving along a familiar highway. Driving speed limit,being alert and attentive. All of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye- I caught sight of the deer entering the highway just ahead of my van. About the time I saw him, I hit him. They don't know to look before they leap into the highway.
    It usually happens so suddenly there isn't time to react. One moment they aren't there- the next moment you are hitting them.
    Once I was driving along, and just ahead of me I saw a group of deer alongside and on the edge of the side of the highway. I managed to come to a stop maybe 5 yards from the group. They were caught in the headlights and didn't move. Just after coming to a stop I heard a thump. One deer I hadn't seen, tried to go behind the headlights and hit my car on the fender about 6 inches before the headlight. That time I was lucky and it was just a dent.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayersForMaura
    I would bet more reckless drivers cause accidents than deer do.

    Deer wouldn't be causing accidents anywhere if they had someplace to go since we keep taking their land away
    And I don't really think it's an overpopulation thing, but perhaps I am naive. I just see here in my town that we keep tearing down trees and green space to build houses, strip malls, buildings and lots and leave no place for them to roam except the streets and highways.

    I'm just too sensitive.
    There is an overpopulation of (whitetail) deer, so much so that many of them are starving to death. We have lots and lots of deer in our area that roam through our yard and eat our shrubs, plants, etc.

    A deer darted out in front of my husband when we lived in Kentucky. It was on a major highway and he could not stop. There was over $3,000 worth of damage done to his car.

    We now live in New York; and drivers have to be careful, especially at dawn and dusk when deer are out and crossing the roadways. It is very scary because you never know when a deer will dart out in front of your car. Plus, when you see one, there are usually one of two others right behind it.
    Last edited by nanandjim; 11-26-2005 at 11:13 AM.


  11. #11
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    "many researchers believe that this increase (deer population) results from continued human incursion into deer habitat, and the mismanagement of deer populations by forest and wildlife authorities who see hunting as the primary means of population control."

    http://www.idausa.org/facts/deercontrol.html

    Evidently hunting rules ban the killing of does, so a buck impregnates several does as they are not monogamous. Each doe can have 2-3 fawns.

    Logging practices clear large spaces, encouraging shrub growth and burgeoning the deer population.

    Development kills off the natural predators of deer, leading to overpopulation.

    In suburban areas feeding the deer leads to overpopulation.

    Don't feed the deer.

    But we each have about a one in eighty chance of dying in a car crash - not with a deer either.

    I would imagine that most animals think WE'RE overpopulated, and a menace also, with our guns and fast-speeding automobiles.

  12. #12
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    There are no longer any natural predators for deer in the eastern US. No wolves, no mountain lions. So the only "control" is human activity: hunting and automobiles.

    Most states now permit, and even encourage, killing does. This is necessary because each mature doe has at least 2 fawns per year. Even without habitat loss, the natural growth of the deer population without predation quickly overwhelms the natural balance of things.

    Let's assume that you have a property of about 500 acres. You start out with 50 deer. 20 bucks and 30 does. Next year, 15 of the does have 1 fawn each. 15 have 2 fawns each. Now you have 95 deer on the same 500 acres.

    Let's assume that 15 deer die of natural causes, car accidents, hunters etc. Now you have 80 deer. 50 does, 30 bucks.

    Next spring, 30 of the does have twins, the other 20 have singles. Now you have 160 deer on the 500 acres. 60 die. Now you have 75 does, 25 bucks. 50 does have twins, 25 have singles. Now you have 225 deer. And so on. These are really conservative numbers. Suppose 100 does have twins the following year - mild winter, lots of food. Suddenly, you have 425 deer on the same 500 acres!!!!!

    See how it goes? Loss of area to development doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Deer LOVE suburban lawns. They are not the least bit deterred by having Chem-lawn enriched shrubberies for breakfast instead of natural forest. Without predators, including hunting, the population QUICKLY grows way beyond the ability of the land to sustain the animals. Each buck can service dozens of does! Each doe will have AT LEAST 1 baby, probably 2, sometimes 3 EVERY YEAR!!!!!!

    I don't care how the predation occurs. Ok by me to re-introduce wolves and mountain lions to the entire eastern seaboard. I don't have cows or horses or sheep or goats - I can share the earth with big predators. Until wolves are an everyday event, though, it seems to me that hunting is necessary to control the growth of the deer population.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by concernedperson
    Not to be morose or anything, but it is open season on humans. We have seen more baby cases of abuse than ever. Also, entire families wiped out. The killers take aim at anyone than upsets their plans.
    This is so true! I know what you're saying and I agree.
    My point on that is that we are more humane to people who kill, rape, abuse, or are child predators by feeding, clothing, sheltering, keeping in isolation for their protection, than we are to innocent animals who just want some of thier space back. That's who I want open season on...beings that do not deserve to be here. Not just people in general.
    The animals are just doing what is natural to them. We are infringing on them with our bigger and better lives. I live in West Virginia, back in the woods, along a creek. Deer are every where. The only thing I care to shoot them with is my camera. I slow down on the back roads...watch for them, & am vigilant. It's their world too. Where do we, as a race, draw the line on who/what we can kill that gets in our way? If you ask me...that line is already very blurry to some...

    Like I said though, my husband hunts. He has great reasons for doing so as well. I just can't help but seeing it at as ending a life force that we have no right to end. But, that is just my opinion...
    ~*~Think Globally, Act Locally! Please Recycle! ~*~

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthersmama
    There are no longer any natural predators for deer in the eastern US. No wolves, no mountain lions. So the only "control" is human activity: hunting and automobiles.

    Most states now permit, and even encourage, killing does. This is necessary because each mature doe has at least 2 fawns per year. Even without habitat loss, the natural growth of the deer population without predation quickly overwhelms the natural balance of things.

    Let's assume that you have a property of about 500 acres. You start out with 50 deer. 20 bucks and 30 does. Next year, 15 of the does have 1 fawn each. 15 have 2 fawns each. Now you have 95 deer on the same 500 acres.

    Let's assume that 15 deer die of natural causes, car accidents, hunters etc. Now you have 80 deer. 50 does, 30 bucks.

    Next spring, 30 of the does have twins, the other 20 have singles. Now you have 160 deer on the 500 acres. 60 die. Now you have 75 does, 25 bucks. 50 does have twins, 25 have singles. Now you have 225 deer. And so on. These are really conservative numbers. Suppose 100 does have twins the following year - mild winter, lots of food. Suddenly, you have 425 deer on the same 500 acres!!!!!

    See how it goes? Loss of area to development doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Deer LOVE suburban lawns. They are not the least bit deterred by having Chem-lawn enriched shrubberies for breakfast instead of natural forest. Without predators, including hunting, the population QUICKLY grows way beyond the ability of the land to sustain the animals. Each buck can service dozens of does! Each doe will have AT LEAST 1 baby, probably 2, sometimes 3 EVERY YEAR!!!!!!

    I don't care how the predation occurs. Ok by me to re-introduce wolves and mountain lions to the entire eastern seaboard. I don't have cows or horses or sheep or goats - I can share the earth with big predators. Until wolves are an everyday event, though, it seems to me that hunting is necessary to control the growth of the deer population.
    My only answer to that is; for billions of years, nature's check and balance system seemed to work. Humans are the ones destroying the Earth's eco system, not the animals.

    I see what your point is, however, it still bruises my heart to see innocent life taken for any "good" reason. If a person hunts for the meat...well I can kind of understand that, even though I don't eat meat myself. I'd just rather see nature take its course. At least then these animals die on their own terms. JMO.
    ~*~Think Globally, Act Locally! Please Recycle! ~*~

  15. #15
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    I would prefer nature's original system,too. Deer overpopulation is rapidly killing off other of nature's plants and creatures. Many wild orchids are gone, ground-nesting birds, reptiles and amphibians....its a mess. Yes, it was caused by human intervention, but I can't think of a "natural" solution short of moving all humans back to the cities and repopulating the suburbs with wolves.

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