Sharks, warblers, deer on endangered species list

NAIROBI (Reuters) - The world's second largest shark, a bird found in the Garden of Eden and Central Asia's only true deer were among 11 new species given the title of "endangered" by countries around the world on Friday.

Around 95 countries, members of the Convention on Migratory Species (CMS), agreed that several birds and mammals faced

increasing threats to their survival and needed more protection.

"The 11 species will join a listing of around 107 migratory animals which are considered endangered and thereby given special status by all member states," Marco Barbieri, CMS scientific officer, told journalists.

"This means countries will need to take concerted action to protect the species, such as conservation projects and protection measures," he said at the end of a CMS conference in the Kenyan capital.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051125/sc_nm/environment_endangered_dc

True deer in Asia?

I guess that's different than the deer we have here? Because I see deer here like I have never seen them before, running across the street in groups of 2 or 3.

And I've seen quite a few dead ones by the road. My boyfriend and I have been disagreeing lately about hunting season. I say we're building so many homes and businesses that we're taking up their homes and their land and he says they only destroy the foliage and we have to kill them or the population gets out of control.

I so disagree. But that's just my ignorance I guess.
I mean, then I get crazy and say, oh I guess that is why God made killers to control our population???

I know, I know...

I just think we're taking their homes away.
They ran free long before we were around.

I'm sure there are many species of deer; here there has been disagreement over deer; of course it is development that takes away their habitat, but feeding them and overpopulation problems make it a hazzard to drive in some places.

Here I believe they adopted a policy of capturing some of them and taking them to ranchland; they were going to shoot them and people protested.

We tend to coexist with them; they are fun to watch and if you just slow down driving at night they don't usually come out to the major highways. Hunters say they cut down on the overpopulation, and I really don't see that much wrong with it since most hunters eat the meat and make sausage, etc.

I would never be able to shoot one myself though, and neither did my son want to. He is a gentle soul.

"All creatures great and small, the Lord God made them all"; that's what I believe anyway.

I live in a rural area. Anytime of the year, you will run across deer lying beside the road where they have been hit by a car. They not only cause damage, due to the car accidents- people have died in those accidents.
Fall is the worst. This is their breeding seaspn, They tend to be more active, to access the highways more.
The predators for deer have mostly been driven out, do to the increasing number of homes and being overhunted. So there are few checks on controlling their population. Ohio has a deer hunting season, to help control the population. Venison is good meat. I have eaten it. Most hunters will have the deer processed, and will eat the meat, they aren't just killed at random and left there.
Deer are beautiful, graceful creatures. I love to watch them. I have personally been involved in 4 car/deer accidents. Three of the four totalled my cars. Man killed the deer's natural predators, so man now has to be the predator. I would prefer that if a deer is killed, that it be put in a freezer, than left to rot alongside the road. I do believe in controlled hunting, as long as the meat can be put to use.

I would bet more reckless drivers cause accidents than deer do.

Deer wouldn't be causing accidents anywhere if they had someplace to go since we keep taking their land away
And I don't really think it's an overpopulation thing, but perhaps I am naive. I just see here in my town that we keep tearing down trees and green space to build houses, strip malls, buildings and lots and leave no place for them to roam except the streets and highways.

I'm just too sensitive. :slap:

There used to be a field called "urban planning", but that seems to be pretty nonexistant in this country now.

Around here it's more like "developers rule", and "go for the greed", not green.

I've been driving many years, but never hit a deer, and I definitely live in deer country.

It just sickens me! Humans hunt animals to extinction. Monday was the first day of deer season where I live and when I went out to go to work Monday morning it sounded like a war field out there. All I could think was "Run deer, run!" Population control my a$$! Stupid humans are the most over populated species there is. So when's it going to open season on them? Abuse is abuse...murder is murder. I pray we wisen up and start being kinder to ALL of natures animal friends...or I think there will be a whole lot of souls cast outside the pearly gates. My husband included...:snooty:

ember said:

It just sickens me! Humans hunt animals to extinction. Monday was the first day of deer season where I live and when I went out to go to work Monday morning it sounded like a war field out there. All I could think was "Run deer, run!" Population control my a$$! Stupid humans are the most over populated species there is. So when's it going to open season on them? Abuse is abuse...murder is murder. I pray we wisen up and start being kinder to ALL of natures animal friends...or I think there will be a whole lot of souls cast outside the pearly gates. My husband included...:snooty:

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Not to be morose or anything, but it is open season on humans. We have seen more baby cases of abuse than ever. Also, entire families wiped out. The killers take aim at anyone than upsets their plans.

If you lived in deer country and you ever drove at dusk, you would know.
One of my accidents, I was driving along a familiar highway. Driving speed limit,being alert and attentive. All of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye- I caught sight of the deer entering the highway just ahead of my van. About the time I saw him, I hit him. They don't know to look before they leap into the highway.
It usually happens so suddenly there isn't time to react. One moment they aren't there- the next moment you are hitting them.
Once I was driving along, and just ahead of me I saw a group of deer alongside and on the edge of the side of the highway. I managed to come to a stop maybe 5 yards from the group. They were caught in the headlights and didn't move. Just after coming to a stop I heard a thump. One deer I hadn't seen, tried to go behind the headlights and hit my car on the fender about 6 inches before the headlight. That time I was lucky and it was just a dent.

PrayersForMaura said:

I would bet more reckless drivers cause accidents than deer do.

Deer wouldn't be causing accidents anywhere if they had someplace to go since we keep taking their land away
And I don't really think it's an overpopulation thing, but perhaps I am naive. I just see here in my town that we keep tearing down trees and green space to build houses, strip malls, buildings and lots and leave no place for them to roam except the streets and highways.

I'm just too sensitive. :slap:

Click to expand...

There is an overpopulation of (whitetail) deer, so much so that many of them are starving to death. We have lots and lots of deer in our area that roam through our yard and eat our shrubs, plants, etc.

A deer darted out in front of my husband when we lived in Kentucky. It was on a major highway and he could not stop. There was over $3,000 worth of damage done to his car.

We now live in New York; and drivers have to be careful, especially at dawn and dusk when deer are out and crossing the roadways. It is very scary because you never know when a deer will dart out in front of your car. Plus, when you see one, there are usually one of two others right behind it.

"many researchers believe that this increase (deer population) results from continued human incursion into deer habitat, and the mismanagement of deer populations by forest and wildlife authorities who see hunting as the primary means of population control."

http://www.idausa.org/facts/deercontrol.html

Evidently hunting rules ban the killing of does, so a buck impregnates several does as they are not monogamous. Each doe can have 2-3 fawns.

Logging practices clear large spaces, encouraging shrub growth and burgeoning the deer population.

Development kills off the natural predators of deer, leading to overpopulation.

In suburban areas feeding the deer leads to overpopulation.

Don't feed the deer.

But we each have about a one in eighty chance of dying in a car crash - not with a deer either.

I would imagine that most animals think WE'RE overpopulated, and a menace also, with our guns and fast-speeding automobiles.

There are no longer any natural predators for deer in the eastern US. No wolves, no mountain lions. So the only "control" is human activity: hunting and automobiles.

Most states now permit, and even encourage, killing does. This is necessary because each mature doe has at least 2 fawns per year. Even without habitat loss, the natural growth of the deer population without predation quickly overwhelms the natural balance of things.

Let's assume that you have a property of about 500 acres. You start out with 50 deer. 20 bucks and 30 does. Next year, 15 of the does have 1 fawn each. 15 have 2 fawns each. Now you have 95 deer on the same 500 acres.

Let's assume that 15 deer die of natural causes, car accidents, hunters etc. Now you have 80 deer. 50 does, 30 bucks.

Next spring, 30 of the does have twins, the other 20 have singles. Now you have 160 deer on the 500 acres. 60 die. Now you have 75 does, 25 bucks. 50 does have twins, 25 have singles. Now you have 225 deer. And so on. These are really conservative numbers. Suppose 100 does have twins the following year - mild winter, lots of food. Suddenly, you have 425 deer on the same 500 acres!!!!!

See how it goes? Loss of area to development doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Deer LOVE suburban lawns. They are not the least bit deterred by having Chem-lawn enriched shrubberies for breakfast instead of natural forest. Without predators, including hunting, the population QUICKLY grows way beyond the ability of the land to sustain the animals. Each buck can service dozens of does! Each doe will have AT LEAST 1 baby, probably 2, sometimes 3 EVERY YEAR!!!!!!

I don't care how the predation occurs. Ok by me to re-introduce wolves and mountain lions to the entire eastern seaboard. I don't have cows or horses or sheep or goats - I can share the earth with big predators. Until wolves are an everyday event, though, it seems to me that hunting is necessary to control the growth of the deer population.

concernedperson said:

Not to be morose or anything, but it is open season on humans. We have seen more baby cases of abuse than ever. Also, entire families wiped out. The killers take aim at anyone than upsets their plans.

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This is so true! I know what you're saying and I agree.
My point on that is that we are more humane to people who kill, rape, abuse, or are child predators by feeding, clothing, sheltering, keeping in isolation for their protection, than we are to innocent animals who just want some of thier space back. That's who I want open season on...beings that do not deserve to be here. Not just people in general.
The animals are just doing what is natural to them. We are infringing on them with our bigger and better lives. I live in West Virginia, back in the woods, along a creek. Deer are every where. The only thing I care to shoot them with is my camera. I slow down on the back roads...watch for them, & am vigilant. It's their world too. Where do we, as a race, draw the line on who/what we can kill that gets in our way? If you ask me...that line is already very blurry to some...

Like I said though, my husband hunts. He has great reasons for doing so as well. I just can't help but seeing it at as ending a life force that we have no right to end. But, that is just my opinion...

luthersmama said:

There are no longer any natural predators for deer in the eastern US. No wolves, no mountain lions. So the only "control" is human activity: hunting and automobiles.

Most states now permit, and even encourage, killing does. This is necessary because each mature doe has at least 2 fawns per year. Even without habitat loss, the natural growth of the deer population without predation quickly overwhelms the natural balance of things.

Let's assume that you have a property of about 500 acres. You start out with 50 deer. 20 bucks and 30 does. Next year, 15 of the does have 1 fawn each. 15 have 2 fawns each. Now you have 95 deer on the same 500 acres.

Let's assume that 15 deer die of natural causes, car accidents, hunters etc. Now you have 80 deer. 50 does, 30 bucks.

Next spring, 30 of the does have twins, the other 20 have singles. Now you have 160 deer on the 500 acres. 60 die. Now you have 75 does, 25 bucks. 50 does have twins, 25 have singles. Now you have 225 deer. And so on. These are really conservative numbers. Suppose 100 does have twins the following year - mild winter, lots of food. Suddenly, you have 425 deer on the same 500 acres!!!!!

See how it goes? Loss of area to development doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Deer LOVE suburban lawns. They are not the least bit deterred by having Chem-lawn enriched shrubberies for breakfast instead of natural forest. Without predators, including hunting, the population QUICKLY grows way beyond the ability of the land to sustain the animals. Each buck can service dozens of does! Each doe will have AT LEAST 1 baby, probably 2, sometimes 3 EVERY YEAR!!!!!!

I don't care how the predation occurs. Ok by me to re-introduce wolves and mountain lions to the entire eastern seaboard. I don't have cows or horses or sheep or goats - I can share the earth with big predators. Until wolves are an everyday event, though, it seems to me that hunting is necessary to control the growth of the deer population.

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My only answer to that is; for billions of years, nature's check and balance system seemed to work. Humans are the ones destroying the Earth's eco system, not the animals.

I see what your point is, however, it still bruises my heart to see innocent life taken for any "good" reason. If a person hunts for the meat...well I can kind of understand that, even though I don't eat meat myself. I'd just rather see nature take its course. At least then these animals die on their own terms. JMO.

I would prefer nature's original system,too. Deer overpopulation is rapidly killing off other of nature's plants and creatures. Many wild orchids are gone, ground-nesting birds, reptiles and amphibians....its a mess. Yes, it was caused by human intervention, but I can't think of a "natural" solution short of moving all humans back to the cities and repopulating the suburbs with wolves.

I went to a dinner last night at Paul's Golf Club and the main course was rack of venison

It was actually very nice - but felt like I was eating Rudolph :snooty:

nanandjim said:

There is an overpopulation of (whitetail) deer, so much so that many of them are starving to death. We have lots and lots of deer in our area that roam through our yard and eat our shrubs, plants, etc.

A deer darted out in front of my husband when we lived in Kentucky. It was on a major highway and he could not stop. There was over $3,000 worth of damage done to his car.

We now live in New York; and drivers have to be careful, especially at dawn and dusk when deer are out and crossing the roadways. It is very scary because you never know when a deer will dart out in front of your car. Plus, when you see one, there are usually one of two others right behind it.

Click to expand...

I am sorry about the damage to your car and am glad no one was hurt.

You can go to the store and buy a black whistle that inserts into the front if of your car/the bumper or the grate. It's black. It doesn't affect you but it's like a dog whistle and it blows out an air signal that alerts the animal to let them know not to run in your general direction ... I'm sure you can find out more about them online.

ember said:

My only answer to that is; for billions of years, nature's check and balance system seemed to work. Humans are the ones destroying the Earth's eco system, not the animals.

I see what your point is, however, it still bruises my heart to see innocent life taken for any "good" reason. If a person hunts for the meat...well I can kind of understand that, even though I don't eat meat myself. I'd just rather see nature take its course. At least then these animals die on their own terms. JMO.

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:clap:

And as far as hunting goes... who needs to hunt? Are we in Ethiopia??
Yeah, it's not like we're starving!!!
It's not like we're in pre-civilization times where we had to hunt for food.
My family was poor and we ate macaroni and cheese. 55 cents a box.

People destroy the world as we know it. And people will continue to detroy it, not deer. :doh:
Green grass and flower will continue to grow back, they have roots under ground. Once an animal becomes extinct, there's nothing that even cloning can do to bring it back in it's true form.

I probably will ramble here. Growing up, I lived in an area where hunting was BIG! I think most males there hunted from the time they were children. I was raised by a Dad whose big sport was fishing, and I was always so grateful he never hunted. I saw enough dead deer hanging off the back of trucks and heads mounted on walls to last me three lifetimes. I swore I would get out of there, and never marry a man who had ever hunted, and I was successful on both counts. ha Deer were so rampant there, at least then. We would see them all over and my worst experience with one personally was when my friend was driving us back from church, and we hit one. I went home crying after it dragged itself into the woods and begged my Dad to let me take him back to the place to find it and shoot it. Ironic, huh? I thought about that deer suffering for a long time, and it was awful. Anyway, I see deer when we camp now all the time and love the thought that at least noone is allowed to kill those particular deer, because they are protected. Those are just my personal feelings. I eat meat, so I guess I could be a little hypocritical... end of rant.

PrayersForMaura said:

:clap:

And as far as hunting goes... who needs to hunt? Are we in Ethiopia??
Yeah, it's not like we're starving!!!
It's not like we're in pre-civilization times where we had to hunt for food.
My family was poor and we ate macaroni and cheese. 55 cents a box.

People destroy the world as we know it. And people will continue to detroy it, not deer. :doh:
Green grass and flower will continue to grow back, they have roots under ground. Once an animal becomes extinct, there's nothing that even cloning can do to bring it back in it's true form.

Click to expand...

Exactly! And it is known in the medical world that meat is not good for us anymore. Colon polyps, which can lead to colon cancer, appear more on people who eat meat than people who do not. Red meat especially. I tend to believe that the hormones that they are putting in meats, especially chicken, now adays is why we see so many more young girls developing early. These little girls are starting to get little breasts at age 8 or 9 now. Diabolical changes are made to everyone of us and our offspring with all of these hormones. May be why we have more mental illnesses also. Pigs are scavengers...we are ingesting what they ingest. It's like having sex without a condom. Shouldn't alarms be going off? What ARE they putting in our food?

Not only the health factor for me, but the guilt factor as well. When I look into the eyes of my animals, I see their soul. They fear, love, have sorrow, pain, joy, ya know? Why are we humans so arrogant to think we are the only living things with real feelings? I see the calfs run around in the field behind my house. They run up to their mothers and nuzzle, nip and love them. Same with the piggies. Deer, I believe show affection towards their own as well. So I can't eat them. Some people say that because we are smarter, that is why we're at the top of the food chain. Well, are we? The animals can live off the land. I don't think most humans can. It would be ugly how fast people would die off if we had to revert to living that way now.

The guilt is just too much for me. Here's a kind of funny story about me dealing with that guilt. Like I said my husband hunts. And y'all know how it is when you're first in love...sometimes you put aside your feelings to make the other person happy. I thought I could handle a 14 point deer head hanging on my wall, so I let him put it up. Well, he's a union worker and is away alot. Often times I would sit in the living room and snack. I would swear that the deer was watching me, thinking I used to be able to roam free and snack too. Finally I asked him to take it down. It bothered my daughter too. He said it was his trophy and he wanted it where it can be seen. I told him that I hope he never loves me that much or thinks that I am that beautiful that when I die, he has my head stuffed and hangs me on the wall. He said that was just morbid. I said so is that corpse hanging on my wall. After a pretty heated discussion, he still wasn't budging. So I ripped the deer head from the wall and ape stomped it! No more dead deer on my wall. Now we agree to disagree on the subject and he keep all trophy's in his shed...

If you don't believe me that meat is nasty, nasty, nasty...go to www.meetyourmeat.com and see for your self, if you can stand it.