The Grand Jury

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Nehemiah

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It has been the thoughts of some here that the GJ in the Ramsey case was used to test opinion and the political/legal waters with respect to protecting the Boulder bureaucracy.

On 10/13/1999, the Boulder grand jury wrapped up a 13-month inquiry during which it had examined 30,000 pages of testimony and evidence, bringing the $2 million investigation to an *inconclusive* finish.

Since it has been so long ago that we discussed the GJ, let's go back and remember what we used to know about it.
 
Well.. I do remember that Kane almost didnt let Lou Smit testify. But after he did, I honestly believe that he saved from John and Patsy being arrested for murdering JonBenet. :behindbar

What else does everyone remember?
 
Summergirl said:
Well.. I do remember that Kane almost didnt let Lou Smit testify. But after he did, I honestly believe that he saved from John and Patsy being arrested for murdering JonBenet. :behindbar

What else does everyone remember?
Click to expand...
How did LS do this?
 
He pleaded to Alex Hunter and Kane to show his intruder evidence.. and finally, gave in and he was allowed to show the grand jury.
 
Jeffrey Shapiro turned in the editors of the Globe to the FBI for conspiring to blackmail a police detective for sealed grand jury evidence.

There is so little that we actually know about the proceedings that it is difficult to discuss, but I was in hopes that we could start by listing out who was called before the GJ. Also, does anyone find it odd that John/Patsy themselves were not questioned?
 
I dont understand why they werent questioned.. I guess there are some things we will never know! :waitasec:

I guess Lou Smit showed enough evidence to the Grand Jury so they didnt have to go to the stand? I dont know.
 
Nehemiah said:
Also, does anyone find it odd that John/Patsy themselves were not questioned?
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Very odd. How can you not question the people who owned the house, found the note, found the child? How can you not hear from the parents of 6 year old child found dead in her own home? They questioned Burke but not John and Patsy? Maybe I just don't know how the GJ operates...
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Very odd. How can you not question the people who owned the house, found the note, found the child? How can you not hear from the parents of 6 year old child found dead in her own home? They questioned Burke but not John and Patsy? Maybe I just don't know how the GJ operates...
Click to expand...

My sentiments, exactly.

BlueCrab has his own reasoning on this, but he is absent.

We do know that Melinda, JAR, Burke, and yes, even Doug S testified. It seems that J/P would hold the keys to what the GJ needed to know.
 
Nehemiah said:
My sentiments, exactly.

BlueCrab has his own reasoning on this, but he is absent.

We do know that Melinda, JAR, Burke, and yes, even Doug S testified. It seems that J/P would hold the keys to what the GJ needed to know.
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Nehemiah,

I am very perplexed as to why JR and PR weren't called.
Even if the jury thought that it was an intruder,or minors,as some posters believe,you would think,since they called in just about everyone else,they would have called the parents in,just to get their statements under oath.

This tends to make me think .... there is information out there,that we are not privy to,but I can't imagine what it is.
 
Its true.
We do not know all the facts.
Some are being kept from us.
 
Nehemiah said:
It has been the thoughts of some here that the GJ in the Ramsey case was used to test opinion and the political/legal waters with respect to protecting the Boulder bureaucracy.

On 10/13/1999, the Boulder grand jury wrapped up a 13-month inquiry during which it had examined 30,000 pages of testimony and evidence, bringing the $2 million investigation to an *inconclusive* finish.

Since it has been so long ago that we discussed the GJ, let's go back and remember what we used to know about it.
Click to expand...

There was no reason to call the GJ in the first place. It was only done because of Steve Thomas's resignation letter. The Governor wanted something done, because he didn't want the media hounding him.

I may be wrong on this, but I believe the Ramseys weren't called because then the police would have to turn over information they didn't want the Ramseys or their attorneys to know about.

I believe Lou Smit stopped the runaway train against the Ramseys. The DNA was a big problem. Several jurors had scientific backgrounds and advanced degrees. It's no coincidence they had the BPD running around collecting DNA. I do think the DNA was inconclusive during that time, but what they did have had the same markers as that under JBR's nails and in her panties. Amazing to me that it was just a few years ago, another blood spot was tested with more markers.
 
John and Patsy were not called to testify because calling them would have entitled them to other statements and evidence that the authorities did not wish to share with them.

I don't know all the legalities but that is the reason they were not called.

The GJ itself was called just to keep the public quiet. There was never going to be an indictment, nor a trial. Haddon and Hunter would see to that. Money pays for innocence in Boulder also.
 
Barbara said:
John and Patsy were not called to testify because calling them would have entitled them to other statements and evidence that the authorities did not wish to share with them.

I don't know all the legalities but that is the reason they were not called.

The GJ itself was called just to keep the public quiet. There was never going to be an indictment, nor a trial. Haddon and Hunter would see to that. Money pays for innocence in Boulder also.
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Your accusing these public officials of taking bribes?
That's a pretty serious charge.
Do you have anything besides opinion to back that up.
 
Zman said:
Your accusing these public officials of taking bribes?
That's a pretty serious charge.
Do you have anything besides opinion to back that up.
Click to expand...

Ummm....I'll take a guess. The Ramseys were not arrested. Nor were they questioned for 4 months. You think that if this were a family on welfare this would happen?

However, it's not necessarily bribes that this money paid for.
 
The Ramseys would get access to all the evidence against them if they were arrested.
Perhaps if they were questioned by the GJ they might see evidence LE did not want them to know they had. LE certainly held back evidence from the public. Perhaps it was their strategy to not question the Ramseys because they wanted to save it for the trial and let loose for a conviction.
Some have reasoned LE was afraid the GJ would be sympathetic to the parents testimony.
Does anyone know if it is common for the indicted one to be called before the GJ? I am thinking that doesn't usually happen.
 
Barbara said:
John and Patsy were not called to testify because calling them would have entitled them to other statements and evidence that the authorities did not wish to share with them.

I don't know all the legalities but that is the reason they were not called.

The GJ itself was called just to keep the public quiet. There was never going to be an indictment, nor a trial. Haddon and Hunter would see to that. Money pays for innocence in Boulder also.
Click to expand...

That doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
If the Ramsey's were not called,because LE did not want the Ramsey's to be privy to certain statements and evidence,that could be used at trial .... so the alternative was to not call them to the GJ,so they would not be indicted,therefore there is no trial? So what good is holding this information,if it will never be used,because there is,and probably never will be a trial? I must be missing something ... because I honestly don't get it.When will this "other" evidence that the LE has,ever be acknowledge? It must be something pretty important,for the LE wanting to hide it from the Ramsey's.

Also ... the GJ being called just to keep the public quiet ... I think that back fired also.If anything,I think the public's attention was more aroused,because the Ramsey's didn't testify.

Go figure ....
 
Brefie said:
Ummm....I'll take a guess. The Ramseys were not arrested. Nor were they questioned for 4 months. You think that if this were a family on welfare this would happen?

However, it's not necessarily bribes that this money paid for.
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of bribes. Hal Haddon and Alex Hunter were very close business partners. These two shared information over breakfast every morning. Hal Haddon is one of the most, if not THE most powerful attorney in Boulder. These are FACTS.

Whether or not there were bribes or just old fashioned "good old boys" sticking together is speculative, but IMO, the corruption is absolutely blatant.

You are correct. If this family was not extremely wealthy, they would have been arrested, on trial, and very possibly sitting in prison today. You, me and certainly the family on welfare would not have had those perks, nor would they have had the powerful advocates the Ramseys had.
 
This is from Judith Phillips' interview with Mary Suma. Judith was a friend to the Ramseys and friends with their friends.

JP: yeah, and as Alex Hunter's behavior and then realizing my belief that the whole, all the DA's are tied together in a conspiracy. At the helm..

Mame: a political conspiracy

JP: a political conspiracy, and Hal Haddon pulls their strings and they're all tied together. It's not anything unlike Chicago politics with Mayor Daly.

Mame: they get stuff done.

JP: right, they get stuff done. We may not like it, but

JP: yeah, yeah, right.

Mame: What is it they always say, The city that works, what did Bailey? Say to the city? To Chicago to remind them again I didn't grow up there but I spent 20 years there. But tell me, I did an interview with Bill Wise and he told me again that Alex Hunter has never met Hal Haddon. I know you weren't there to be able to confirm it.

JP: well, I find that very curious, simply because Hal Haddon had contributed to Alex Hunter's political campaign. Now..

Mame: you know that?

JP: yes, yes

Mame: cause I've gone back and looked at the years since they've been recording it and it's not there. But Hunter's reign goes back 30 years so I haven't gotten that far back yet.

JP: yeah, yeah, I believe that to be true.
 
Barbara said:
It's not a matter of bribes. Hal Haddon and Alex Hunter were very close business partners. These two shared information over breakfast every morning. Hal Haddon is one of the most, if not THE most powerful attorney in Boulder. These are FACTS.

Whether or not there were bribes or just old fashioned "good old boys" sticking together is speculative, but IMO, the corruption is absolutely blatant.

You are correct. If this family was not extremely wealthy, they would have been arrested, on trial, and very possibly sitting in prison today. You, me and certainly the family on welfare would not have had those perks, nor would they have had the powerful advocates the Ramseys had.
Click to expand...
Yes the "good old boys" may stick together and try to help each other when it involves affairs, gambleing, drinking, hookers and back door political deals of every kind but even the "good old boys" run from being associated with the cover up of the murder of 6 year old girls.
 
Zman said:
Yes the "good old boys" may stick together and try to help each other when it involves affairs, gambleing, drinking, hookers and back door political deals of every kind but even the "good old boys" run from being associated with the cover up of the murder of 6 year old girls.
Click to expand...

Good point Zman ... and a thought that I was pondering myself.

What great hold did the Ramsey's have on the political powers that be in Boulder? Certainly,the Ramsey's were wealthy,but hardly in the same arena pehaps as the Kennedy's or Donald Trump.

What did the "good ole boys" have to gain by protecting the Ramsey's? When it seems they would have alot to lose,if it ever came out in the open,that much was corrupt in the Ramsey case.

Doesn't seem worth it ... at least not for the sake of the Ramsey's.

They just weren't that important.
 
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