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  1. #1
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    Singular They

    We have had some discussions about Darlie using "they" on the 911 tape:
    00:01:19 FC: ...somebody came here...they broke in...
    00:03:27 COl: ...ma'am...
    00:05:ll FC: ...they just stabbed me and my children...
    00:07:16 COl: ...what...
    00:08:05 FC: ...they just stabbed me and my kids...my little boys...
    Then later on the tape:
    04:05:03 FC: ...ya'll look out in the garage...look out in the garage...they left a knife laying on...


    Some people think this means she's jumping back and forth between saying there were 2 killers to just 1 killer. I think she's just using it as a singular "they", not as in more than 1 person. I found this:
    The alt.usage.english FAQ
    • Gender-neutral pronouns

      (Usage Disputes)

      "Singular 'they'" is the name generally given to the use of"they", "them", "their", or "theirs" with a singular antecedent such as "someone" or "everyone", as in "Everyone was blowing their nose."(It does not refer to the use of singular verbs in such mock-illiterate sentences as "Them's the breaks" and "Them as has, gets." Any verb agreeing with a singular "they" is plural:"Someone killed him, and they are going to pay for it.") Singular "they" has been used in English since the time of Chaucer. Prescriptive grammarians have traditionally (since 1746, although the actual practice goes right back to 1200) prescribed "he": "Everyone was blowing his nose." In 1926, Fowler wrote that singular "they" had an "old-fashioned sound [...]; few good modern writers would flout the grammarians so conspicuously." But in recent decades, singular "they" has gained popularity as a result of the move towards gender-neutral language. For a defense of singular "they", with examples from Shakespeare, Jane Austin, and others, see Henry Churchyard's page: http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html; But note that not all of us are as keen on singular "they" as Henry is. Asked to fill in the blank in sentences such as "A patient who doesn't accurately report ___ sexual history to the doctor runs the risk of misdiagnosis", only 3% of AHD3's usage panel chose "their". AHD3'susage note says: "this solution ignores a persistent intuition that expressions such as _everyone_ and _each student_ should in fact be treated as grammatically singular." An example from Fowler wittily demonstrates how singular "they" never seems to agree perfectly: "Everyone was blowing their nose"? "Everyone was blowing their noses"? "Everyone were blowing their noses"? Proposals for other gender-neutral pronouns get made from time to time, and some can be found in actual use ("sie" and "hir" are theones most frequently found on Usenet). Cecil Adams, in _Return of the Straight Dope_ (Ballantine, 1994, ISBN 0-345-38111-4), says that some eighty such terms have been proposed, the first of them in the 1850s. John Chao (chao@hoss.ee.udel.edu) was constructing a long FAQ on this topic: [...] http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/index.html. Discussions about gender-neutral pronouns tend to go round and round and never reach a conclusion. Please refrain. (We also get disputes about the use of the word "gender" in the sense of "sex", i.e., of whether a human being is male or female.This also dates from the 14th century. By 1900 it was restricted to jocular use, but it has now been revived because of the "sexual relations" sense of "sex".)

      Source: [Mark Israel, 'Usage Disputes: Gender-neutral pronouns', The alt.usage.english FAQ file,(line 1601), (29 Sept 1997)]


    Last edited by beesy; 11-28-2005 at 08:03 PM.
    Beesy Was Here

    So I held my head up high
    Hiding hate that burns inside
    Which only fuels their selfish pride
    We're all held captive
    Out from the sun
    A sun that shines on only some
    We the meek are all in one
    Creed
    My Own Prison


  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Beesy, the Comic

    Quote Originally Posted by beesy
    We have had some discussions about Darlie using "they" on the 911 tape:
    00:01:19 FC: ...somebody came here...they broke in...
    00:03:27 COl: ...ma'am...
    00:05:ll FC: ...they just stabbed me and my children...
    00:07:16 COl: ...what...
    00:08:05 FC: ...they just stabbed me and my kids...my little boys...
    Then later on the tape:
    04:05:03 FC: ...ya'll look out in the garage...look out in the garage...they left a knife laying on...


    Some people think this means she's jumping back and forth between saying there were 2 killers to just 1 killer. I think she's just using it as a singular "they", not as in more than 1 person. I found this:
    The alt.usage.english FAQ http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/aue_logo_sidebar.jpg
    • Gender-neutral pronouns

      (Usage Disputes)

      "Singular 'they'" is the name generally given to the use of"they", "them", "their", or "theirs" with a singular antecedent suchas "someone" or "everyone", as in "Everyone was blowing their nose."(It does not refer to the use of singular verbs in such mock-illiterate sentences as "Them's the breaks" and "Them as has,gets." Any verb agreeing with a singular "they" is plural:"Someone killed him, and they are going to pay for it.") Singular "they" has been used in English since the time ofChaucer. Prescriptive grammarians have traditionally (since 1746,although the actual practice goes right back to 1200) prescribed"he": "Everyone was blowing his nose." In 1926, Fowler wrotethat singular "they" had an "old-fashioned sound [...]; few goodmodern writers would flout the grammarians so conspicuously." Butin recent decades, singular "they" has gained popularity as a resultof the move towards gender-neutral language. For a defence of singular "they", with examples from Shakespeare,Jane Austen, and others, see Henry Churchyard's page: http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html; But note thatnot all of us are as keen on singular "they" as Henry is. Asked tofill in the blank in sentences such as "A patient who doesn'taccurately report ___ sexual history to the doctor runs the risk ofmisdiagnosis", only 3% of AHD3's usage panel chose "their". AHD3'susage note says: "this solution ignores a persistent intuitionthat expressions such as _everyone_ and _each student_ should infact be treated as grammatically singular." An example from Fowlerwittily demonstrates how singular "they" never seems to agreeperfectly: "Everyone was blowing their nose"? "Everyone wasblowing their noses"? "Everyone were blowing their noses"? Proposals for other gender-neutral pronouns get made from time totime, and some can be found in actual use ("sie" and "hir" are theones most frequently found on Usenet). Cecil Adams, in _Return ofthe Straight Dope_ (Ballantine, 1994, ISBN 0-345-38111-4), says thatsome eighty such terms have been proposed, the first of them in the1850s. John Chao (chao@hoss.ee.udel.edu) was constructing a long FAQon this topic: [...] http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/index.html. Discussions about gender-neutral pronouns tend to go round andround and never reach a conclusion. Please refrain. (We also get disputes about the use of the word "gender" in thesense of "sex", i.e., of whether a human being is male or female.This also dates from the 14th century. By 1900 it was restrictedto jocular use, but it has now been revived because of the "sexualrelations" sense of "sex".)

      Source: [Mark Israel, 'Usage Disputes: Gender-neutral pronouns', The alt.usage.english FAQ file,(line 1601), (29 Sept 1997)]


    hahahahahahahhah! Your signature line is hillarious, Bees! Very well done, indeed. I love the layaway notation. hahahahhahahaah!

    The language usage thing is well done, too. I have never been bothered particularly by the different usages of it. I myself do the same thing. They might be one person or two, depending on mymood or the situation. So I don't find it unusual that someone else would do it. And I did try to find something wrong with it anyway, but in all honesty I couldn't. I think there are many other things about what she says on the 911 tape that are far more incriminating.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.

  3. #3
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    QUOTE=Goody] hahahahahahahhah! Your signature line is hillarious, Bees! Very well done, indeed. I love the layaway notation. hahahahhahahaa

    You gave me the idea. I worked hard on that thing so thank you

    The language usage thing is well done, too. I have never been bothered particularly by the different usages of it. I myself do the same thing. They might be one person or two, depending on mymood or the situation. So I don't find it unusual that someone else would do it. And I did try to find something wrong with it anyway, but in all honesty I couldn't. I think there are many other things about what she says on the 911 tape that are far more incriminating.

    I agree. Of course you know I believe she did it, but I don't think using "someone" and then "they" shows any type of guilt.You mentioned she added a small-framed adult male to go along with the mysterious smeared print. Seems to me her first stories included only one man. Early on she had no reason to create a 2nd attacker and that's why I think she was using the singular they and is not something to look at as far as guilt. Many stories later, she threw the other man in the mix.
    Beesy Was Here

    So I held my head up high
    Hiding hate that burns inside
    Which only fuels their selfish pride
    We're all held captive
    Out from the sun
    A sun that shines on only some
    We the meek are all in one
    Creed
    My Own Prison


  4. #4
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    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by beesy
    You gave me the idea. I worked hard on that thing so thank you


    I agree. Of course you know I believe she did it, but I don't think using "someone" and then "they" shows any type of guilt.You mentioned she added a small-framed adult male to go along with the mysterious smeared print. Seems to me her first stories included only one man. Early on she had no reason to create a 2nd attacker and that's why I think she was using the singular they and is not something to look at as far as guilt. Many stories later, she threw the other man in the mix.
    Correct. Until the questionable hypnosis session,there was only one guy. I think CWB was the first to come up with a theory that there could have been more than one intruder and that was after the trial. In fact, I don't think he even knew the Routiers until a couple of years after the trial.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    Correct. Until the questionable hypnosis session,there was only one guy. I think CWB was the first to come up with a theory that there could have been more than one intruder and that was after the trial. In fact, I don't think he even knew the Routiers until a couple of years after the trial.

    You're right. I'm not even sure he's even seen Darlie above the neck.

  6. #6
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    Cwb

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    You're right. I'm not even sure he's even seen Darlie above the neck.
    Bummer for him. LOL!

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    You're right. I'm not even sure he's even seen Darlie above the neck.
    MTJD page 494

    and try the grits with lots!!!!! of butter and sugar

    Happy Holidays everyone.....I will be in S. Cal for the season but wish everyone a safe holiday....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma
    MTJD page 494

    and try the grits with lots!!!!! of butter and sugar

    Happy Holidays everyone.....I will be in S. Cal for the season but wish everyone a safe holiday....
    O, lucky, lucky you!! Won't you have a computer there?

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    O, lucky, lucky you!! Won't you have a computer there?
    Boy, now that you mention it......my son designs websites for Paramount Studios so his home computer system is way busy.....plus I thought I would rest the old fingers a while. Hope everyone had a great holiday, my flights both ways were perfect.

    Now an update......Darlie is back in Dallas waiting a hearing date that originally was set for LAST January......The way the legal system operates Lord only knows if there will be a hearing this year....As stated in the great film...."Rosemary's Baby"....."we shall see, we shall see."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma
    Boy, now that you mention it......my son designs websites for Paramount Studios so his home computer system is way busy.....plus I thought I would rest the old fingers a while. Hope everyone had a great holiday, my flights both ways were perfect.


    As far as I know we all did.


    Quote Originally Posted by enigma
    Now an update......Darlie is back in Dallas waiting a hearing date that originally was set for LAST January......The way the legal system operates Lord only knows if there will be a hearing this year....As stated in the great film...."Rosemary's Baby"....."we shall see, we shall see."
    Thanks for the update. Is this hearing on the DNA testing? I hear that many Texas prisononers are having a hard time getting the testing approved, even in cases where innocence is a real possibility. There is an article in Texas Monthly about it.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    [/color][/b]

    As far as I know we all did.


    [color=#0000ff][color=#000000]
    Thanks for the update. Is this hearing on the DNA testing? I hear that many Texas prisononers are having a hard time getting the testing approved, even in cases where innocence is a real possibility. There is an article in Texas Monthly about it.
    From my understanding the hearing is to get Judge Francis to approve the defense having access to pieces of evidence that were not tested for DNA, which is what the continually postponed hearing was for last year.

    I checked on mapquest for the distance and time from Eagle to Mama Darlie's and the distance was about 16 miles with a travel time of 26 minutes one way. With the traffic lights and all, I am assuming this is pretty accurate.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma
    From my understanding the hearing is to get Judge Francis to approve the defense having access to pieces of evidence that were not tested for DNA, which is what the continually postponed hearing was for last year.

    I checked on mapquest for the distance and time from Eagle to Mama Darlie's and the distance was about 16 miles with a travel time of 26 minutes one way. With the traffic lights and all, I am assuming this is pretty accurate.
    Well, that is interesting. I live 16 miles from downtown Nashville. It takes me 30 to 45 minutes in the daytime, and only about 20 minutes late at night. I would guess there would be some variances like that in Texas too.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
    __________________
    This is the humble opinion of Goody Trugritt.



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