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  1. #1
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    Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #24

    'Most painful torture': Douglas Garland triple murder trial hears of internet search
    By Meghan Grant, CBC News Posted: Jan 31, 2017



    The Crown's theory is evidence of files, photos and search history found on a hidden hard drive in the Garland home tells a story of an obsession with torture, killing, kink and murder victims Alvin and Kathy Likness.

    Const. Doug Kraan was responsible for poring over 112 gigabytes of information on the drive. In earlier testimony, jurors heard about files on the drive that included research on dismembered bodies, autopsy tools and sexual photos of adults in diapers.

    On Monday, Kraan said the main user of computer "would have been Douglas Garland," because of emails found on the hard drive.

    But under cross-examination, Kraan confirmed to defence lawyer Kim Ross it is his "opinion" as an expert that Garland is the one who used the computer and could not state it as fact.

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  2. #2
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    Can anyone remind me how long the trial is expected to last? I'm trying the get a general feeling as to how far the Crown is into their case.

    They still haven't touched on forensic analysis of blood/DNA evidence, the truck video, the aerial video, the financial motive/grudge....what else is still to come?
    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    Therefore, send not to know, for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.
    ~John Dunne


    #TeamCivilization

  3. #3
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    In regards to the CCTV footage, his pants look quite big for him. Could it be that he is wearing them that large to hide the fact that he's wearing a diaper?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopster View Post
    Can anyone remind me how long the trial is expected to last? I'm trying the get a general feeling as to how far the Crown is into their case.

    They still haven't touched on forensic analysis of blood/DNA evidence, the truck video, the aerial video, the financial motive/grudge....what else is still to come?
    Crown said a 5 week trial. First it was reported they had 60 witnesses, then it suddenly reduced to 50 witnesses. Up to end of yesterday, there had been 29 witnesses on the stand. Of that 5 week time estimation, they are allowing for the defence to call their own witnesses, but if none are called, it may reduce the length? I think they also estimate on the high side when determining the length of a trial?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Female
    I took a bit of time this evening to download PDF versions of books found and must say I'm surprised the jury doesn't have to read them. It's piecing together why certain items were purchased and why certain things were searched in further detail on the Web. I understand reading would be hard for the jury, but to connect those dots was huge for me just now. For example the one speaks about disabling or killing a "target" with a piano wire Garotte. We know piano wire was found and DGs parents questioned about if they (or DG) played and DG had garotte images saved to his hard drive yet crown hasn't connected that dot for the jury yet. We also know acupuncture needles were found and the book goes into detail about a method called dim mak - death touch - delayed death via acupuncture.
    This is from the previous thread and had to manually create the reply.

    Thanks Female for doing that. I was hoping someone had read the books he bought.

    I would be curious if you find other things that closely match what he read in the books. It is almost like he was using things in the books and trying to do what they told him to do.

    I hope LE also read the books to help find evidence in the house and find other evidence. I agree that even the jury it would be helpful if they had a reading assignment for these books. It may help them tie things together.

    We appreciate you doing this because those books are disturbing but they do help in this case to help know what he was trying to do. The books he bought and read seem to be a very important part of this case. Since he took some actions directly related to the books it seems.

  6. #6
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    Following along thru this trial yesterday's testimony made me feel so nauseated. A friend of mine and I have this sort of running joke between us about what other customers in line or the cashier thinks about what's in our shopping cart at the hardware store or WalMart (or wherever). Things like a shovel, bleach, work gloves, duct tape and a frozen pizza. I couldn't help but think about that as I read through the tweets of yesterday's testimonies. To my friend and I it's a joke because obviously we're not buying tools to torture and murder anyone.

    But DG was. I can only hope this family passed before he had a chance to do unspeakable things to them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopster View Post
    Can anyone remind me how long the trial is expected to last? I'm trying the get a general feeling as to how far the Crown is into their case.

    They still haven't touched on forensic analysis of blood/DNA evidence, the truck video, the aerial video, the financial motive/grudge....what else is still to come?
    Re BBM
    I find it very interesting that some of the most important things are still to come. It sure seems like the prosecution is waiting till the very end to bring all the important stuff up right at the end.

    It seems like a strange tactic to me for a case this long. I could see that strategy being used with a smaller length case but for a case this long I dont think I could wait this long to start to bring up some of the really important things.

    I find that quite interesting about the prosecution strategy.

  8. #8
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    Going back to the shoes and the video. Obviously it's not clear enough if the shoes in the video are the delta 2's or the crown would have presented the video as shoe evidence. Either the crown itself wasn't sure enough or the judge didn't allow the evidence. I do agree that they for sure are tissues he was arrested in but I wouldn't be one hundred percent sure they are the Delta twos. Remember how many shoes were found in that house so it's not a stretch to think he had more than two pairs of running shoes.

    I'm also wondering if he would be smart enough to buy new shoes just for this crime.

  9. #9
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    On the shoes...

    Here is the first item I find when I google 'Dr Scholl's Delta shoes Walmart'. I see there are a few types, but as someone else pointed out, it's a great chance these are the 'Delta 2' that matches the empty box and that the witness mentioned having difficulty finding because they are discontinued (can't remember now if that last part was in testimony or our conclusion). Notice there are only a few available online of this model.

    It does have a dark stripe up the middle of the tongue, which I think looks similar in the CCTV. It's so hard to be sure with the grainy pics!

    It's worth noting that when I search, my 'local store' would be the closest Walmart to DG's home at that time so maybe that affects results?

    http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/dr-schol.../6000195979989


    All this is to say: I believe he wore the same Delta 2 shoes for quite some time, committed the crime in them, then burned them before arrest.

    MOO
    Last edited by gunner.; 02-01-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  10. #10
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    Anyone else notice how narrow his feet seem in the video?? He clearly did not need WIDE shoes.

    The oversized everything suggests to me some kind of aversion to anything uncomfortable or restrictive (this is a common symptom in those on the autism spectrum or with sensory disorders). Autistic folks can also have difficulty with social interactions (eye contact), are often highly methodical, need to follow order and instructions exactly (book instructions on murder perhaps), and can become obsessed with things. (I'm speaking here from my own personal past experience working with autistic kids.)


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Female View Post
    I took a bit of time this evening to download PDF versions of books found and must say I'm surprised the jury doesn't have to read them. It's piecing together why certain items were purchased and why certain things were searched in further detail on the Web. I understand reading would be hard for the jury, but to connect those dots was huge for me just now. For example the one speaks about disabling or killing a "target" with a piano wire Garotte. We know piano wire was found and DGs parents questioned about if they (or DG) played and DG had garotte images saved to his hard drive yet crown hasn't connected that dot for the jury yet. We also know acupuncture needles were found and the book goes into detail about a method called dim mak - death touch - delayed death via acupuncture.
    It doesn't sound like he had an actual plan, but instead read all about homicide tools and then he proceeded to purchase them all.

  12. #12
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    Morning!
    Thanks for the new thread ColdPizza and ...

    Welcome to Kfox! Thanks for contributing!


    A few disjointed thoughts this morning:

    1. Female, you are a brave soul to tackle that reading. Hugs.
    2. DG feet are absolute SKIS
    3. Thanks Kamille and GIALLO for posting the CCTV from Princess Auto
    4. While watching it - knowing what we now know - is nauseating and chilling lets give a shout out to Princess Auto for having excellent, clear CCTV technology and inventory/purchasing systems in place; they clearly have their act together
    5. Its astounding to me how well so much was kept under wraps over the last 2.5 years - CPS is amazing (and MSM too in this case - they've known a lot all along)
    6. I can't believe what fantastic sleuthers we have here! Great posts last night.

    Here'w what lies ahead today:

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugmom View Post
    In regards to the CCTV footage, his pants look quite big for him. Could it be that he is wearing them that large to hide the fact that he's wearing a diaper?
    omg. Yes! He sure could be.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner. View Post
    On the shoes...

    Here is the first item I find when I google 'Dr Scholl's Delta shoes Walmart'. I see there are a few types, but as someone else pointed out, it's a great chance these are the 'Delta 2' that matches the empty box and that the witness mentioned having difficulty finding because they are discontinued (can't remember now if that last part was in testimony or our conclusion). Notice there are only a few available online of this model.

    It does have a dark stripe up the middle of the tongue, which I think looks similar in the CCTV. It's so hard to be sure with the grainy pics!

    It's worth noting that when I search, my 'local store' would be the closest Walmart to DG's home at that time so maybe that affects results?

    http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/dr-schol.../6000195979989


    All this is to say: I believe he wore the same Delta 2 shoes for quite some time, committed the crime in them, then burned them before arrest.

    MOO
    There is a very good chance he wore the delta 2's for a long time. The police were not able to find video evidence of him buying them from walmart so he probably bought them long before the crime. Anyone know how long stores keep video? A few months at least based on the princess auto video.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner. View Post
    Anyone else notice how narrow his feet seem in the video?? He clearly did not need WIDE shoes.

    The oversized everything suggests to me some kind of aversion to anything uncomfortable or restrictive (this is a common symptom in those on the autism spectrum or with sensory disorders). Autistic folks can also have difficulty with social interactions (eye contact), are often highly methodical, need to follow order and instructions exactly (book instructions on murder perhaps), and can become obsessed with things. (I'm speaking here from my own personal past experience working with autistic kids.)
    Wow gunner, good thinking here.

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