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  1. #1
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    The phone calls mean there IS an image of LISK.

    I apologize if this has been covered at length...Ive only started getting serious about this case recently.

    What really jumps out at me is that there were several phone calls made to a victims sister. Phone calls placed from Times Square and Penn Station. Law Enforcement seems to claim that because those locations are so busy that we cannot ID the perp from surveillance footage.

    I dont buy that. If we had access to footage from both places at the time the calls were made I bet we could find something. Now....maybe the footage no longer exists and its erased. But even if he is not easily picked out....we DO have an image of LISK. Id like the chance to see footage from the times and locations these phone calls were made.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for opening it Bessie. I didnt realize that's how it worked, I am a bit of a lurker here. Sorry.

    Now that I have been mulling this over for a few hours - it occurs to me we dont need the surveillance footage.

    I was in NYC in 2007 and 2008. I have tons of photos from both trips that I can still to this very day go back and look at at tell you exactly when they were taken. The Iphone was released in 2007. IIRC the phone calls were made in 2009. That means there are many, many people that took a photo of LISK making those phone calls. That means that those photos can be dated and time-stamped to the precise moment and what's more, a phone is going to get its time from the carrier network. So any photos that were taken on a phone will show to the second and match up exactly with the records of the calls.

    While I understand that it would be very time consuming to go through thousands of photos and could overwhelm a LE agency - what's to stop this community from asking for photos from those dates and times and going through them? Take any digital photo and put it into a free exif data program and boom, you've got your timestamp. If LE would share with us the exact times of the calls, we can cross reference anyone on a phone in Times Square and in Penn Station at the times the calls were made. What's more - and I think this is more likely in Times Square, there is every chance that we could see him dialing and hanging up. Match up the times to the phone records and though it doesnt PROVE the case it sure would be excellent circumstantial evidence and at least be a lead.

    Something else occurred to me as well. If he was in these places, someone heard at least a smidgen of what he said. You can hear someone talking right next to you. If not, he mustve ducked into a more private place which might also show up in photos. If someone DID hear him, would that not have stuck in someones mind?

    I deeply believe that these phone calls can still lead right to him.

    The more attention this case gets the better. Anyone that took a photo should be encouraged by LE and news agencies to put it up on a website to be combed through.

  3. #3
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    Just to illustrate what I am talking about- I did a quick google image search for Times Square 2009. One of the first hi res images that came up is this one:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mes_Square.jpg

    I went to exifdata.com and plugged it in. It was taken May 31, 2009 at 6:49 P.M. with a Pentax. Now, we have to assume that the camera's date and time was correct in this instance, but with a cell phone the timestamp WILL be accurate because it is set by the carrier. Of course, this image does us no good at all but this was 3 minutes of research. How many photos are there of the day he made his calls?

  4. #4
    Not necessarily, he could have been in a car parked on the street, of even been in a building around Penn. I always picture 31st street because it's pretty dead even though it's outside Penn

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmessier View Post
    Just to illustrate what I am talking about- I did a quick google image search for Times Square 2009. One of the first hi res images that came up is this one:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mes_Square.jpg

    I went to exifdata.com and plugged it in. It was taken May 31, 2009 at 6:49 P.M. with a Pentax. Now, we have to assume that the camera's date and time was correct in this instance, but with a cell phone the timestamp WILL be accurate because it is set by the carrier. Of course, this image does us no good at all but this was 3 minutes of research. How many photos are there of the day he made his calls?
    Hi Cmessier

    Here is a link to a post I posted back in 08-11-2015, the post contains a lot of info on the phone calls that LISK made to Melissa Barthelemy's little sister + some more :

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...1#post11994261
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theforeigner View Post
    Hi Cmessier

    Here is a link to a post I posted back in 08-11-2015, the post contains a lot of info on the phone calls that LISK made to Melissa Barthelemy's little sister + some more :

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...1#post11994261
    Most of the calls were made on Thursdays and Sundays. Most of the girls disappeared on those days also.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmessier View Post
    Just to illustrate what I am talking about- I did a quick google image search for Times Square 2009. One of the first hi res images that came up is this one:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mes_Square.jpg

    I went to exifdata.com and plugged it in. It was taken May 31, 2009 at 6:49 P.M. with a Pentax. Now, we have to assume that the camera's date and time was correct in this instance, but with a cell phone the timestamp WILL be accurate because it is set by the carrier. Of course, this image does us no good at all but this was 3 minutes of research. How many photos are there of the day he made his calls?
    I think you have a great theory, if it were a smaller town. I will tell you why:

    Times Square - 480,000 people go through there in the course of one day. Also surrounded by high risers, restaurants at all levels and stores.

    Penn Station - moves 650,00 people a day in that hub, it it also under Madison Square Garden which houses 1000's at any given event. On top of Madison Square Garden are 1 & 2 Penn 2 high rise office buildings, across the street is a large hotel in the front In addition Penn Station is one square block front, side, and back entrances all surrounded by office buildings.

    As Picture snatcher mentioned could have been in a car too.

    One thing is check the dates of the calls if they were in coincidence with basketball or Hockey games someone could of had seasonal tickets. Times square is only 9 blocks north can be easily walked. There is also a possibility they would have parked west of Times Square for the Garden events since it is much cheaper and walked down through Times Square and South 9 blocks to the Garden it's a nice walk in the summer months.

    Now a days everyone is on their telephones. The cameras should have been looked at early on for someone throwing a phone in one of the garbage pails, if they even tossed it in the area.
    Last edited by DQN; 02-18-2017 at 01:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DQN View Post

    One thing is check the dates of the calls if they were in coincidence with basketball or Hockey games someone could of had seasonal tickets. Times square is only 9 blocks north can be easily walked.
    Now a days everyone is on their telephones. The cameras should have been looked at early on for someone throwing a phone in one of the garbage pails, if they even tossed it in the area.
    That info is buried on here somewhere, one day was a Britney spears concert.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DQN View Post
    I think you have a great theory, if it were a smaller town. I will tell you why:

    Times Square - 480,000 people go through there in the course of one day. Also surrounded by high risers, restaurants at all levels and stores.

    Penn Station - moves 650,00 people a day in that hub, it it also under Madison Square Garden which houses 1000's at any given event. On top of Madison Square Garden are 1 & 2 Penn 2 high rise office buildings, across the street is a large hotel in the front In addition Penn Station is one square block front, side, and back entrances all surrounded by office buildings.

    As Picture snatcher mentioned could have been in a car too.

    One thing is check the dates of the calls if they were in coincidence with basketball or Hockey games someone could of had seasonal tickets. Times square is only 9 blocks north can be easily walked. There is also a possibility they would have parked west of Times Square for the Garden events since it is much cheaper and walked down through Times Square and South 9 blocks to the Garden it's a nice walk in the summer months.

    Now a days everyone is on their telephones. The cameras should have been looked at early on for someone throwing a phone in one of the garbage pails, if they even tossed it in the area.
    I respectfully disagree. In a small town, the likelihood of people taking photos at any given time goes down. The reason I am so convinced that photos exist and can be cross referenced is because we are talking about some of the most photographed locations in the entire world. At any given time there are people taking photos in Times Square...really all over Manhattan but especially Times Square. There are photos out there of LISK - even if he is in his car it could prove useful. I'm looking back through photos I took in NYC in 2008 and there are at least 6 or 7 where I've inadvertently photographed other tourists taking photos. It's too bad I didnt happen to be there in July of 2009...I've got plenty of photos of Times Square where there are dozens of people that would be able to be IDed from my photographs even though I wasnt taking pictures of people. Im absolutely not the only one. The most annoying thing about NYC is tourists stopping in the sidewalk in front of you to take pictures. If you live there or if you have visited enough you know what I am talking about.

    Someone out there, Im sure MANY people out there have photographs of LISK making these phone calls. Of course, they have no clue, but they are out there. If we could get times and locations of the calls made, SPECIFIC times and locations, then we could try and get people who were there at those times to send in pictures. Even as it stands, I would not at all be surprised if there are several on sites like Flickr, facebook, etc. There have to be thousands upon thousands of photos on memory cards and hard disks all over the world of the areas at those times.

    Has the NYPD ever shared their footage, has anyone even asked the question? Do we know it's gone? I've got several photos where their security cameras show up, again without intending to photograph them.

    As far as him being anywhere else but in a car or on the sidewalk, I have trouble believing that. Inside a building the din drops to a point where his conversations would be MUCH more audible to anyone around him. If he was in his car ... plate numbers can still be visible, make/model/color is easy to see and I have plenty of photos where I can clearly see the faces of people in their cars.

    I think we can get this guy. I think the information is out there. I KNOW the information is out there .... it's just a matter of getting it and getting our collective eyes on it.
    Last edited by Cmessier; 02-18-2017 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #10
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    I will add this - if it were downtown, then I would say we might be outta luck. I am always surprised how thin the crowds are downtown aside from Wall St. Plenty of out of the way places in the financial district where nobody could see or hear you.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cmessier View Post
    I respectfully disagree. In a small town, the likelihood of people taking photos at any given time goes down. The reason I am so convinced that photos exist and can be cross referenced is because we are talking about some of the most photographed locations in the entire world. At any given time there are people taking photos in Times Square...really all over Manhattan but especially Times Square. There are photos out there of LISK - even if he is in his car it could prove useful. I'm looking back through photos I took in NYC in 2008 and there are at least 6 or 7 where I've inadvertently photographed other tourists taking photos. It's too bad I didnt happen to be there in July of 2009...I've got plenty of photos of Times Square where there are dozens of people that would be able to be IDed from my photographs even though I wasnt taking pictures of people. Im absolutely not the only one. The most annoying thing about NYC is tourists stopping in the sidewalk in front of you to take pictures. If you live there or if you have visited enough you know what I am talking about.

    Someone out there, Im sure MANY people out there have photographs of LISK making these phone calls. Of course, they have no clue, but they are out there. If we could get times and locations of the calls made, SPECIFIC times and locations, then we could try and get people who were there at those times to send in pictures. Even as it stands, I would not at all be surprised if there are several on sites like Flickr, facebook, etc. There have to be thousands upon thousands of photos on memory cards and hard disks all over the world of the areas at those times.

    Has the NYPD ever shared their footage, has anyone even asked the question? Do we know it's gone? I've got several photos where their security cameras show up, again without intending to photograph them.

    As far as him being anywhere else but in a car or on the sidewalk, I have trouble believing that. Inside a building the din drops to a point where his conversations would be MUCH more audible to anyone around him. If he was in his car ... plate numbers can still be visible, make/model/color is easy to see and I have plenty of photos where I can clearly see the faces of people in their cars.

    I think we can get this guy. I think the information is out there. I KNOW the information is out there .... it's just a matter of getting it and getting our collective eyes on it.
    How woul there be more chance of him being overheard if he was alone in a room in one of the buildings across the streets that surround penn than if he was on a busy street surrounded by people? I don't think the calls were made in a crowd. First off he was probably touching himself. I think you are overestimating how busy the area around Penn station is. The 31st between 7th and 8the southside of Penn is not highly traveled. Even at Rush hour you wont pass more than a couple people because there are no businesses until the bars or restaurants way down towards 8th avenue. No one is ever taking photos on this street. Cross 8th and it's 100% residential. Then take for another instance the lot/tunnel thing under penn. All the foot traffic is on 7th and 8th avenue and 34th, etc.
    Besides the killer could work in a building surrounding Penn, or even in Penn. Or he could have been alone in a bathroom in a less popular bar. The problem is we don't know how exact they pinpointed the ping.

  12. #12
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    Regarding the cell phone pings: Rather than pinpoint a suspect’s whereabouts, cell-tower records can put someone within an area of several hundred square miles or, in a congested urban area, several square miles.

    Therefore Times Square area could be a radius of a mile however pinpointed at the landmark of "Times Square Area"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DQN View Post
    Regarding the cell phone pings: Rather than pinpoint a suspectís whereabouts, cell-tower records can put someone within an area of several hundred square miles or, in a congested urban area, several square miles.

    Therefore Times Square area could be a radius of a mile however pinpointed at the landmark of "Times Square Area"
    However the information is more precise, it says specifically Penn Station and PA Bus Terminal

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PictureSnatcher View Post
    However the information is more precise, it says specifically Penn Station and PA Bus Terminal
    Maybe so I imagine there are many more cell towers in Manhattan than any where else. Especially after the WTC attacks when we all lost cell phone communication due to the cell phone towers on the towers.

  15. #15
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    Penn Station is extremely busy near the 32nd st. entrance. Especially at the height of rush hour. The killer called Amanda between the hours of five thirty and six thirty in the evening.

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