Teens Arrested After ‘Terrorizing’ NorCal Grocery Store

[h=1] Humm, watchcha wanna do today?[/h]
"Lets go destroy the grocery store"

"Sounds fun lets go"

What is going on?

http://ktla.com/2015/02/14/teens-arrested-after-video-captures-them-terrorizing-norcal-grocery-store/

What happens when the store owner pulls out a gun and stops the destruction?

"Investigators believed the motive may have been retaliation, as three of the teens involved had been arrested two days prior to the incident on shoplifting charges, authorities said."

http://ktla.com/2015/02/14/teens-ar...ptures-them-terrorizing-norcal-grocery-store/

posted Feb 14....................................................................... Updated at 10:54AM, February 14, 2015

^
Weren't they little valentines, 2 yrs ago? /sarc, jm2cts.

" ....a bottle of cooking oil, which left the store's floor slippery and caused a 64-year-old ... to fall...."He actually slipped in a puddle of cooking oil on the floor, he landed very violently on his left side,"...
The man possibly fractured his elbow and had to be taken to an area medical center for treatment..."
^ beyond vandalism, when they caused bodily injury to others.
"At one point, the teens grabbed a bottle of alcohol from the liquor aisle and allegedly began drinking, according to the station.
That ^ seems to be on vid (if bottle has booze. Another crime chg, perhaps?.

"Authorities estimated the total damage to the store was in the thousands of dollars.
However, it did not appear that they stole anything from the store." bbm
Maybe nothing 'stolen' but to the grocery store, all that merchandise is as good as stolen: they can't sell 1/2 bottle of cooking oil, broken eggs, what-ev.

"Several employees tried to intervene and stop the group, including a manager who was punched in the face by one of the teens..."
^ more bodiy injury to a third person.

"Two officers who responded to the scene also sustained minor injuries when the attempted to arrest the teens and one allegedly resisted."
Two LEO's w "minor injuries."

Not the end of the world, but what the what?!?!
Jm2cts.

rob said:

What happens when the store owner pulls out a gun and stops the destruction?

Click to expand...

If this ^ had been store owner's reaction, we can speculate about defenses to poss criminal chgs against owner. Or shooter, if another person had fired. Here's mine.

When does store owner/manager--- azz-uming s/he carries or has easy, immed gun access --- shoot (at) teens?

1. After teens throw food from shelves onto floor? Can mgr/owner use deadly force in defense of prop? No, imo.
2. After man slips in cooking oil puddle & falls, snapping bone? Plausible defense of others argument? Unless teens were posing further threat of seriously bodily harm to man on floor, IDTS/IDK.
3. If store owner above is also the manager who was punched in face (per link), perhaps if 2, 3, 4, or 5 teens made threatening gestures, waved knife, brandished gun or other weapon right there by mgr, maaaybbbeeee would have plausible basis for lawful self defense. IDK.
4. After prop damages in #1, the fall in #2, and #3 mgr being punch in face (but no other threats), do these acts cumulatively provide a shooter w lawful SD or Def/Others argument?

If owner shoots, doubtful jmo there is a strong lawful SD argument for firing a gun, deadly force, except in #3.

Ditto a store employee, jmo.
Ditto a store patron ('good guy w a gun'?), jmo.

Ditto, any of above ppl firing a 'warning shot' into store ceiling, jmo.
Ditto, any ^ chasing teens out of store, to parking lot or street & firing at them, jmo.
Seems any shot (by person considered to be victim of less lethal force) could pose deadly threat to others, jmo.

Is owner, employee or patron shooting warranted in ^ situation?

Would we think the same or differently re the two LEOs who sustained "minor injuries" in trying to arrest teens, w one allegedly resisting arrest? Plausible argument for lawful SD or lawful Def/Others? Thoughts, anybody?

Pepperspray.

cuffem said:

Pepperspray.

Click to expand...

As approp or inapprop weapon for store owner, mgr, or employee to use on these teens? TiA.

If I owned a store and a gang of people came in, regardless of age, reeking havoc, damaging property, causing injury to others, fighting employees trying to remove them, and I can't shoot them if necessary, well, I just dont' know.
If I'm on the jury of the shooter, he'll walk.
If this type of fun for teens is allowed to happen, it will continue and escalate. I just don't believe in criminals having all the rights and law-abiding citizens having none.
JMO

rob said:

If I owned a store and a gang of people came in, regardless of age, reeking havoc, damaging property, causing injury to others, fighting employees trying to remove them,...JMO

Click to expand...

^sbm Yes, in those ^ circumstances, it might be tempting to use force, but hard to conclude imo that using firearm was warranted. JM2cts.

ETA: I think success of use of force defense would depend on a lot we don't know.

al66pine said:

" ....a bottle of cooking oil, which left the store's floor slippery and caused a 64-year-old ... to fall...."He actually slipped in a puddle of cooking oil on the floor, he landed very violently on his left side,"...
The man possibly fractured his elbow and had to be taken to an area medical center for treatment..."
^ beyond vandalism, when they caused bodily injury to others.
"At one point, the teens grabbed a bottle of alcohol from the liquor aisle and allegedly began drinking, according to the station.
That ^ seems to be on vid (if bottle has booze. Another crime chg, perhaps?.

"Authorities estimated the total damage to the store was in the thousands of dollars.
However, it did not appear that they stole anything from the store." bbm
Maybe nothing 'stolen' but to the grocery store, all that merchandise is as good as stolen: they can't sell 1/2 bottle of cooking oil, broken eggs, what-ev.

"Several employees tried to intervene and stop the group, including a manager who was punched in the face by one of the teens..."
^ more bodiy injury to a third person.

"Two officers who responded to the scene also sustained minor injuries when the attempted to arrest the teens and one allegedly resisted."
Two LEO's w "minor injuries."

Not the end of the world, but what the what?!?!
Jm2cts.

Click to expand...

What is so bizarre about this kinda stuff (the 4 who tortured the impaired dude) is how on earth do you morons not think your gonna get caught?

Especially at their age group - they know technology is everywhere??

Oh good lord - was trying to followup on this story and get this

Police in Brooklyn are searching for a teenage boy who set four separate fires inside a grocery store.

who would have known that more than one result would come back - give me a break!!

http://abc7ny.com/news/teen-sought-for-setting-4-fires-inside-brooklyn-grocery-store/1736888/

Let me try again god .......................

Stubborn fire !!

CARIIS said:

What is so bizarre about this kinda stuff (the 4 who tortured the impaired dude) is how on earth do you morons not think your gonna get caught?
Especially at their age group - they know technology is everywhere??

Click to expand...

^bbm. Yes, teens know about the technology.

But imo, some ppl think, based on their life experiences, that there are there are no or virtually no punishments, not even unpleasant consequences for their actions, whether accidental or deliberate.

Well, maybe they think they'll get a hard stare or a stern lecture, or for super serious injury, be yelled at in a very LOUD voice. (
Not just some teens who anticipate that 'nobody's gonna do anything about it', but ppl across all age categories, imo).

JM2cts and worth every penny. [wink emoji]

al66pine said:

^sbm Yes, in those ^ circumstances, it might be tempting to use force, but hard to conclude imo that using firearm was warranted. JM2cts.

ETA: I think success of use of force defense would depend on a lot we don't know.

Click to expand...

I haven't been here in a week.
I felt like what I listed came from your post #5. How much is the public required to take from punks? IMO, if more people fought back (with deadly force) fewer events like this would occur.
But, let me say, I'm southern, conservative, Baptist, slightly red-neck, etc, so maybe I see things a little differently.
Just my opinion, and I respect others opinions.

rob said:

I haven't been here in a week.
I felt like what I listed came from your post #5. How much is the public required to take from punks?IMO, if more people fought back (with deadly force) fewer events like this would occur.
But, let me say, I'm southern, conservative, Baptist, slightly red-neck, etc, so maybe I see things a little differently.
Just my opinion, and I respect others opinions.

Click to expand...

^bbm Hey, rob Thank you very much for your response and kind Southern courtesy.

Agreeing w your thought ^ I bolded; imo many others would agree.
Just saying, there could be some unhappy consequences for ppl responding w deadly force. For ex, crim charges.
And another real-life possibility of some shoplifters/vandals/prop destroyers/assaulters/attackers shooting back.
Hard to conclude imo this store owner/manager (hypo) use of firearm would have been justified --- technically, in the legal sense.

What about owner's (hypo) use of less-lethal force? Fists? Kick in the shins? A.S.P.? Taser? Stun-gun? Or? Anyone?

From a yankee who has enjoyed many visits in SC