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  1. #121
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    Here are questions I'm going to ask the detective in a phone call next week. Please add/suggest/criticize before I lock 'em in.

    I have an appointment coming up next week with a detective in San Juan County, New Mexico. It'll be helpful to be able to get me these questions down right now. And it will be helpful to be criticized or have other ideas that I may add to ask. This is what I propose:


    1. My father died in a very quiet area, with only two other people from miles. Are there parts of this investigation that seat to exclude his wife or the other man that was living on the property? The body was described as Native American or Hispanic and he was a Caucasian male. The body in the autopsy also stated that there were no recent signs of surgery when just a week before he had surery for a stab wound to his lower abdomen.


    2. By his wife's father who was dying. He said, “If I die, you die,” buy a witness in the records. Was this witness just dismissed out of hand? His wife’s father died they inherited a $2 million estate. This is a huge inheritance. Nikki submits herself that she believed her father had “put a hit out” on my father “Sam Smith” because her father disliked mine.


    3. My father fled Washington State and his two firstborn son's in order to avoid paying child support. New Mexico was one of the last few States in the union tonight work with other states to make sure child support was paid even when a parent fled. In 1984 this changed, my father was sued and lost in the state of New Mexico and was ordered to start paying back child support and child support going forward to his only to natural shoulder in Seattle.


    4. This burden would hangover him and his wife until we were both 18, effectively costing them money straight out of pocket. This problem hanged over both of their heads, as they were married. One can see in the records, for one reason or another, he transferred all of his interests in property to his wife. Since she was the only survivor and got to write history, we don't know why or how this happened.


    5. I do not see any information in these records that showed that Nikki Smith, other man that lives on The property, or anyone else being investigated as being a part of this death. Nikki admits to fabricating witness and evidence, and both of their stories contradict each other. Joe, the man on the property, says he found the body first. Nicky Smith says she found the body first. And in another testimony she said they both found the same time. Joe admits to moving the firearm from who knows where to wherever he left it. Harley Smith was still alive when they found him-and was greeting. Who knows whether he uttered any last words or what they were, but obviously if they were damaging, nobody would relay them for obvious reasons.


    6. All the stories that are related from neighbors seem to stem from Nicki’s words. I am in unable able to procure any investigation information about my fathers assault well he was working at a local Shamrock service station. He was handcuffed and stabbed during a minor robbery. Yes, I suppose it is possible one could be sick enough to stab themselves, but the descriptions of friends and family were that he was a fighter, survivor, and do not seem to have a death wish.


    7. His wife went out of her way to exclude, lie, and commit lies of omission about the fact he had to first one son in Seattle and did her best to obfuscate the fact, and infected knowingly said they were not his sons as a witness. The investigators new this was alive, yet we were never reached out to about inheritance, they will (which she said never existed, and in evidence says they're indeed wasn't a will and I would like to know what is in it).


    8. Knowing that he had two sons in Seattle, she did not even ask her family heirlooms or any of my fathers heritage back to his two sons. She did her best to lie and make sure we were erased from history and the fact that we were due ½ of whatever his possessions were.


    9. His farmer’s insurance agent stated he had 11 policies. I'm just an average Joe, but I only have four policies and that seems like a lot. What were these policies? What did they cover? Who did they pay out to?


    10. Less than six months after my father's death, their home which was occupied 100% of the time (I learned this from family members who I've communicated with) had a fire during the one weekend and no one was home. The only things lost or damaged turned out to be my father's possessions (per her words). The fire report indicates in incendiarism (arson). Started by someone in the middle of nowhere… whomever that was… I have the fire report and it can be crosschecked with the fire department there.


    11. After assuring and somehow convincing agents, police, insurance and anyone else in the town that exert influence his wife has advertisements for auctions of the Smith property that state over $2 million in value. In addition to this, she out right lied about doing my father since age 3. This is an impossible statement, yet no one looked into it.


    12. His wife also lied about the date they were married, as my parents (my mother and my father… Harley Smith's first marriage) was not annulled until 1980.


    13. I would like to know why his wife was never a suspect in this murder. The fingerprints on the gun could never be tested with partial prints. The only two people there we're the only two survivors. Police had already patrolled the area due to records five minutes before in 15 minutes after not seeing any activity with cars or motorcycles on a 2-lane road with only one way in and out.


    14. I was once rear-ended by a semi whose driver was on cocaine. He was doing 65 miles an hour and nearly killed me; indeed it was a near-death experience. There are better records, and more investigative material from this accident in this crime scene surrounding the death of a human being. The hair and all the evidence on the gun in the records were never able to be tested. They were sent to be tested, but could be matched.


    All of this does not add up to me. Throughout all the evidence, it is clear Harley Smith was in a severely weakened state. He could not walk without punching over and seems to be he would be easily malleable if someone wanted to protect him from going outside, alone, in the dark.


    The fact that he was a 1st Cavalry sniper and combat scout with a Purple Heart in Vietnam seems he would be smarter than to keep the lights off and go outside into the dark. I believe and will never be able to prove that this is how this happened. The smart move, obviously, when all witnesses say he would be unable to defend himself be to turn on all the lights announce yourself and that you are armed.


    Nicky stated to me visit she was cremated without her permission. He was cremated only three days after his death, ensuring that nothing else on his body could ever be examined. He was cremated with no service, no honor guard for the disabled American veterans who served in the first cavalry, and to my knowledge there is no memorial for Harley smith. This does not seem appropriate for someone who would've cared about him.


    I believe all of these things out of to a higher standard an average for investigating his life is murder suspect number one. Perhaps he did kill himself, but her lies, doubling back and trying to make it look like someone killed him (other than himself) could only be one of two things. Occam's razor would have us believe:


    Either Harley Smith killed himself;


    Either Harley Smith killed himself or someone else did and she tried to ensure that she would get benefits from his quarter of $1 million life insurance;


    Or she or her partner murdered him adjusted the crime scene, and did it so well that look like a suicide.


    I still do not know what she collected in inheritance insurance, if there is an insurance policy 50% of that should've went do is to first natural born son which from the beginning both of them were under the burden of to pay for and he still was up until the day he died.


    I believe all of this goes above and beyond the reason to investigate her and her finances and evidence more deeply for what happened that night.


    These point by point note that I made here are far from complete and her lies of omission, flat out lies, misdirection, and lies about evidence and happenings leading up to his death.
    Last edited by allfalldown; 11-16-2017 at 03:29 AM. Reason: cleaning up grammar and completing thoughts better.
    I'm 44 years old and still don't know for sure if my dad was murdered he committed suicide:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...in-Butt-of-Gun

    "I love you all, but I gotta haul."

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfalldown View Post
    Here are questions I'm going to ask the detective in a phone call next week. Please add/suggest/criticize before I lock 'em in.

    I have an appointment coming up next week with a detective in San Juan County, New Mexico. It'll be helpful to be able to get me these questions down right now. And it will be helpful to be criticized or have other ideas that I may add to ask. This is what I propose:


    1. My father died in a very quiet area, with only two other people from miles. Are there parts of this investigation that seat to exclude his wife or the other man that was living on the property? The body was described as Native American or Hispanic and he was a Caucasian male. The body in the autopsy also stated that there were no recent signs of surgery when just a week before he had surery for a stab wound to his lower abdomen.


    2. By his wife's father who was dying. He said, “If I die, you die,” buy a witness in the records. Was this witness just dismissed out of hand? His wife’s father died they inherited a $2 million estate. This is a huge inheritance. Nikki submits herself that she believed her father had “put a hit out” on my father “Sam Smith” because her father disliked mine.


    3. My father fled Washington State and his two firstborn son's in order to avoid paying child support. New Mexico was one of the last few States in the union tonight work with other states to make sure child support was paid even when a parent fled. In 1984 this changed, my father was sued and lost in the state of New Mexico and was ordered to start paying back child support and child support going forward to his only to natural shoulder in Seattle.


    4. This burden would hangover him and his wife until we were both 18, effectively costing them money straight out of pocket. This problem hanged over both of their heads, as they were married. One can see in the records, for one reason or another, he transferred all of his interests in property to his wife. Since she was the only survivor and got to write history, we don't know why or how this happened.


    5. I do not see any information in these records that showed that Nikki Smith, other man that lives on The property, or anyone else being investigated as being a part of this death. Nikki admits to fabricating witness and evidence, and both of their stories contradict each other. Joe, the man on the property, says he found the body first. Nicky Smith says she found the body first. And in another testimony she said they both found the same time. Joe admits to moving the firearm from who knows where to wherever he left it. Harley Smith was still alive when they found him-and was greeting. Who knows whether he uttered any last words or what they were, but obviously if they were damaging, nobody would relay them for obvious reasons.


    6. All the stories that are related from neighbors seem to stem from Nicki’s words. I am in unable able to procure any investigation information about my fathers assault well he was working at a local Shamrock service station. He was handcuffed and stabbed during a minor robbery. Yes, I suppose it is possible one could be sick enough to stab themselves, but the descriptions of friends and family were that he was a fighter, survivor, and do not seem to have a death wish.


    7. His wife went out of her way to exclude, lie, and commit lies of omission about the fact he had to first one son in Seattle and did her best to obfuscate the fact, and infected knowingly said they were not his sons as a witness. The investigators new this was alive, yet we were never reached out to about inheritance, they will (which she said never existed, and in evidence says they're indeed wasn't a will and I would like to know what is in it).


    8. Knowing that he had two sons in Seattle, she did not even ask her family heirlooms or any of my fathers heritage back to his two sons. She did her best to lie and make sure we were erased from history and the fact that we were due ½ of whatever his possessions were.


    9. His farmer’s insurance agent stated he had 11 policies. I'm just an average Joe, but I only have four policies and that seems like a lot. What were these policies? What did they cover? Who did they pay out to?


    10. Less than six months after my father's death, their home which was occupied 100% of the time (I learned this from family members who I've communicated with) had a fire during the one weekend and no one was home. The only things lost or damaged turned out to be my father's possessions (per her words). The fire report indicates in incendiarism (arson). Started by someone in the middle of nowhere… whomever that was… I have the fire report and it can be crosschecked with the fire department there.


    11. After assuring and somehow convincing agents, police, insurance and anyone else in the town that exert influence his wife has advertisements for auctions of the Smith property that state over $2 million in value. In addition to this, she out right lied about doing my father since age 3. This is an impossible statement, yet no one looked into it.


    12. His wife also lied about the date they were married, as my parents (my mother and my father… Harley Smith's first marriage) was not annulled until 1980.


    13. I would like to know why his wife was never a suspect in this murder. The fingerprints on the gun could never be tested with partial prints. The only two people there we're the only two survivors. Police had already patrolled the area due to records five minutes before in 15 minutes after not seeing any activity with cars or motorcycles on a 2-lane road with only one way in and out.


    14. I was once rear-ended by a semi whose driver was on cocaine. He was doing 65 miles an hour and nearly killed me; indeed it was a near-death experience. There are better records, and more investigative material from this accident in this crime scene surrounding the death of a human being. The hair and all the evidence on the gun in the records were never able to be tested. They were sent to be tested, but could be matched.


    All of this does not add up to me. Throughout all the evidence, it is clear Harley Smith was in a severely weakened state. He could not walk without punching over and seems to be he would be easily malleable if someone wanted to protect him from going outside, alone, in the dark.


    The fact that he was a 1st Cavalry sniper and combat scout with a Purple Heart in Vietnam seems he would be smarter than to keep the lights off and go outside into the dark. I believe and will never be able to prove that this is how this happened. The smart move, obviously, when all witnesses say he would be unable to defend himself be to turn on all the lights announce yourself and that you are armed.


    Nicky stated to me visit she was cremated without her permission. He was cremated only three days after his death, ensuring that nothing else on his body could ever be examined. He was cremated with no service, no honor guard for the disabled American veterans who served in the first cavalry, and to my knowledge there is no memorial for Harley smith. This does not seem appropriate for someone who would've cared about him.


    I believe all of these things out of to a higher standard an average for investigating his life is murder suspect number one. Perhaps he did kill himself, but her lies, doubling back and trying to make it look like someone killed him (other than himself) could only be one of two things. Occam's razor would have us believe:


    Either Harley Smith killed himself;


    Either Harley Smith killed himself or someone else did and she tried to ensure that she would get benefits from his quarter of $1 million life insurance;


    Or she or her partner murdered him adjusted the crime scene, and did it so well that look like a suicide.


    I still do not know what she collected in inheritance insurance, if there is an insurance policy 50% of that should've went do is to first natural born son which from the beginning both of them were under the burden of to pay for and he still was up until the day he died.


    I believe all of this goes above and beyond the reason to investigate her and her finances and evidence more deeply for what happened that night.


    These point by point note that I made here are far from complete and her lies of omission, flat out lies, misdirection, and lies about evidence and happenings leading up to his death.
    About the life insurance. Are you assuming 50% should go to you or was that stated in the policy? If you weren’t a beneficiary I don’t think there would be any guarantee that you would receive any amount. No offense but if he was dodging child support, it doesn’t seem like he’d have a policy naming you as a beneficiary.


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  3. #123
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    Hey never paid - he was just ordered to before his death. A significant hit to him & his wife.

    Clearly ducked responsibility. In the divorce decree it was ordered any life insurance he took had to name his children the beneficiaries.

    It’s beyond the money now. I just want justice if it hasn’t been done. At the time though - I think these points matters to some degree.

    To which degree I have no idea.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfalldown View Post
    Hey never paid - he was just ordered to before his death. A significant hit to him & his wife.

    Clearly ducked responsibility. In the divorce decree it was ordered any life insurance he took had to name his children the beneficiaries.

    It’s beyond the money now. I just want justice if it hasn’t been done. At the time though - I think these points matters to some degree.

    To which degree I have no idea.
    That seems really odd. Are you sure the decree didn’t say he must have *a* life insurance policy naming you guys the beneficiaries? And that it was for an amount that would cover his child support responsibility? I can’t see why ANY life insurance policy he had must name you guys beneficiaries.

    Many divorce decrees state that a life insurance policy must be kept for the entirety of the child support obligation duration, but unfortunately many people cancel these policies shortly after the divorce is finalized. My husbands ex did it too.


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  5. #125
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    I am not proficient in the law and do not know the answers to your questions, although it makes sense he could've ended one life insurance policy and added another.

    Regardless, when a person has two children and remarries, the benefits should be split 50% between his children and 50% to his new wife. That is the way I understand family law works.


    I could be completely wrong.


    But her stating that his two children were not his seems to me at least part of a motive to at least investigate her.
    I'm 44 years old and still don't know for sure if my dad was murdered he committed suicide:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...in-Butt-of-Gun

    "I love you all, but I gotta haul."

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfalldown View Post
    I am not proficient in the law and do not know the answers to your questions, although it makes sense he could've ended one life insurance policy and added another.

    Regardless, when a person has two children and remarries, the benefits should be split 50% between his children and 50% to his new wife. That is the way I understand family law works.


    I could be completely wrong.


    But her stating that his two children were not his seems to me at least part of a motive to at least investigate her.
    That’s actually not the way it should be. There should be a policy for his kids and a policy for his wife. Separate. The policy for kids should be enough to cover his child support obligations until the kids are 18 or whenever child support ends (every state varies). Idk if there are statutes of limitations for this type of thing, but if you feel you are owed money from the policy, contact a lawyer who will give you a free consultation and maybe sue his wife.


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  7. #127
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    This is so not right....

    Maybe this sounds ridicule but why don't you try to make a documentary of your story...like The Witness or Keepers...just to smoke them out....(mean me)
    Still believe in the human race.....

  8. #128
    Where did she state that you and your brother weren't his kids? I missed that comment somehow.

  9. #129
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyballplayer View Post
    Where did she state that you and your brother weren't his kids? I missed that comment somehow.
    It is in the investigators notes. They took her at her word, but in the end they noted she lied about it. Amongst other changes/Inaccuracies/false statements.
    I'm 44 years old and still don't know for sure if my dad was murdered he committed suicide:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...in-Butt-of-Gun

    "I love you all, but I gotta haul."

  10. #130
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bit of hope View Post
    This is so not right....

    Maybe this sounds ridicule but why don't you try to make a documentary of your story...like The Witness or Keepers...just to smoke them out....(mean me)
    No ridicule taken. Only when I step outside of being involved in this do I realize it is kinda a good story. If it doesn't happen to you!
    I'm 44 years old and still don't know for sure if my dad was murdered he committed suicide:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...in-Butt-of-Gun

    "I love you all, but I gotta haul."


  11. #131
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    - The lack of fingerprints from your dad on the gun is bothering me. How can you shoot yourself and not leaving your fingerprints or only partial fingerprints. Maybe LE didn't handled the evidence well or the prints got lost when Joe moved the gun? Did he touched it -his fingerprints would be on there to- did he touched it protecting his hand with gloves or a cloth, or swept it away with his foot oid. Nothing about that mentioned if I recall right.
    - On the toxicology report race states C so Caucasian. In the autopsy report I read Caucasian male. Where did you read Native/Hispanic?
    - Your parents were married between 1971 and 1980, both you and your brother were born in this period. Of course there is always the possibility that you have another biological father, but I don't believe that. So Nikki lied flat out about the fact that you where from another relationship and not your fathers sons. Why, would you lie to LE about that? Didn't she knew any better, I don't believe that, she also must have seen the petition(s) for support. Was it because of stupid jealousy, greed? Did your father kept them from her? I'm missing the logic here. What do you think about that?
    Still believe in the human race.....

  12. #132
    Any updates? I check here often hoping for a break through.

  13. #133
    allfalldown's Avatar
    allfalldown is offline Verified Family - Very Strange Story/Note from 1985 Found in Butt of Gun Case
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    NS knew very well we were HS's sons. They both tried to kidnap us once before getting out of the state. And I'm the spitting image of HS - even inherited some of his health problems.

    I saw one one police report that stated he was Native/Hispanic. I'd have to go back through. Really weird.

    Other than that, I fear there are no breakthroughs to be had....

    Adam Christian Smith
    I'm 44 years old and still don't know for sure if my dad was murdered he committed suicide:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...in-Butt-of-Gun

    "I love you all, but I gotta haul."

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