MA - Aaron Hernandez, New England Patriots player, charged with homicides #6

KateB · Jun 4, 2015

Aaron Hernandez Double Murder Trial to Begin in December
BOSTON — Jun 4, 2015, 4:46 PM ET
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/judge-set-date-aaron-hernandez-boston-murder-trial-31516786

Jury selection for the double murder trial of former New England Patriots player Aaron Hernandez will be tentatively scheduled for Dec. 1, a judge said Thursday.

Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Locke also set a date of Jan. 4 for the trial to begin in earnest. Hernandez was not present in court Thursday.

Coldpizza · Apr 2, 2017

Prosecution Presents Final Witness In Aaron Hernandez Double Murder Trial
March 31, 2017

BOSTON (CBS) The prosecution presented their final witness in the double murder trial of former New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez. They plan to rest their case on Monday.

Sixty-four witnesses with a months worth of testimony and evidence to go with it was all capped off by the toughest yet, the medical examiner. Those in the family section clutched hands as Dr. Katherine Lindstrom explained one of the victims may have felt pain in his last moments of life.

Most of Aaron Hernandezs relatives had left by this point, where earlier one of them flashed his former #81 Patriots jersey. It was the first time his family showed up since the trial began.

KaraKitty · Apr 2, 2017

THANKS, ColdPizza, for the new thread!!! :tyou:

KaraKitty · Apr 2, 2017

To BUF, THANK YOU for that Odin Lloyd Timeline link you added to the previous thread. :tyou:

As a matter of fact I did not follow that trial as closely as this TRIAL so on Friday evening I started back to watching the entire OL trial online!!!

(From the online trial link, I had no idea a young 15yo found OL's body and from your Timeline, OL was shot TEN times.) :cry:

katydid23 · Apr 2, 2017

Coldpizza said:
Prosecution Presents Final Witness In Aaron Hernandez Double Murder Trial
March 31, 2017

BOSTON (CBS) – The prosecution presented their final witness in the double murder trial of former New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez. They plan to rest their case on Monday.

Sixty-four witnesses with a month’s worth of testimony and evidence to go with it was all capped off by the toughest yet, the medical examiner. Those in the family section clutched hands as Dr. Katherine Lindstrom explained one of the victims may have felt pain in his last moments of life.

Most of Aaron Hernandez’s relatives had left by this point, where earlier one of them flashed his former #81 Patriots jersey. It was the first time his family showed up since the trial began.

Not sure why his family would flash his jersey? Seems silly and makes the point that AH is an idiot for giving that life up by living the gang life.

And they never showed up except that once, where they stayed half of the day? Again, kind of silly and pointless if you are trying to act like you are supporting him.

katydid23 · Apr 2, 2017

Alexander Bradley, who prosecutors say was shot in the face by the ex-NFL player.

Robert Lindsey, who was testifying against his will, said Bradley called him after the shooting in Florida and told him “’This (expletive) (expletive) (expletive) Aaron’ shot him.”

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/31/aaron-hernandez-double-murder-trial-prosecution-testimony/

[I thought that was good for the CW that they got the statement to AB's cousin that it was AH who shot him, That was made right after the shooting. ]

Boston Police Detective Paul MacIsaac was next on the stand, testifying about the ensuing investigation into the July 2012 murders of Daniel de Abreu and Safiro Furtado in Boston’s South End.

About one year after the murders, police executed a search warrant and found the Toyota 4-Runner that Hernandez was riding in.
MacIsaac said the vehicle had cobwebs on it when police located it.

[Finding the car hidden in the garage, with cobwebs on it, was important too. Who stashes a perfectly good free car away, when he had a large family, with little money. ]

[ And their testimony that they put it in there so people didn't know when AH was visiting made no sense= obvious lie.]

I think the CW had an OK final day. They wrapped up a few loose ends. Brought the focus back to the Boston shootings. The DT put up LKB the attack dog. And she was very aggressive. But it was not about anything that denied AH was the shooter. It was about whether they died within seconds or minutes. So not that much of an issue in the end. She also pointed out a measurement error in one of the wounds. Again, not that big of a deal in the end. The ME was pretty calm,cool collected through the assault.

A lot of this will depend upon the defense case and whether Baez is able to show some 'credible' reasonable doubt. Just because one victim had some THC in his system, does not mean he had made a bad drug deal with AB in the club. Baez will need more than that.

Baez will have to dirty up the dead victims to make that argument. And that is a risky thing to do. Their families have been there everyday, seeing horrible photos, crying, grieving. They seem like pretty sympathetic characters.

Rocco · Apr 2, 2017

I still haven't quite figured out what further punishment could be handed out to AH if he's found guilty in this trial. He's already serving LWOP for the murder of OL. Is this trial a matter of justice for the families--- getting a conviction of the person who killed their loved ones? The defense isn't 'fighting for his life' as Drama Queen Baez stated in his outburst as AH's life is already over with the previous sentence of LWOP.

BUF · Apr 2, 2017

KaraKitty said:
To BUF, THANK YOU for that Odin Lloyd Timeline link you added to the previous thread. :tyou:

As a matter of fact I did not follow that trial as closely as this TRIAL so on Friday evening I started back to watching the entire OL trial online!!!

(From the online trial link, I had no idea a young 15yo found OL's body and from your Timeline, OL was shot TEN times.) :cry:

Oh my karakitty, you must really be on AH overload by now!

(I think OD was shot six times, which is quite an overkill. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/04/aaron_hernandez_guilty_of_first-degree_murder_in_k.html)

BUF · Apr 2, 2017

Rocco said:
I still haven't quite figured out what further punishment could be handed out to AH if he's found guilty in this trial. He's already serving LWOP for the murder of OL. Is this trial a matter of justice for the families--- getting a conviction of the person who killed their loved ones? The defense isn't 'fighting for his life' as Drama Queen Baez stated in his outburst as AH's life is already over with the previous sentence of LWOP.

The verdict doesn’t matter much — except to the families of the dead — because Hernandez is already doing a life-long jolt for murdering another man in 2013.

^^^ This. These families have waited nearly five years for justice to be served. Hope they get it. I too really hope that these murdered young men don't get re-victimized again by the defense with any false accusations.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/01/nfl-star-aaron-hernandez-had-it-all

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
Too many discrepancies in the Common Wealth case. ME confirms on cross her notes were incorrect. Detectives not following through on case. Stuff that should been addressed by the CW prior to going to court. I look forward to the Def and Closing. Did not realize (duh moment) that there were threads here for this one

Click to expand...

orig katydid23 03-31-2017, 05:21 PM#1048 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?63633-katydid23
The discrepancies were very tiny. Seconds vs minutes in time of death from the bullets. It is just a guess anyway.The ME cannot know for sure.

And the other so called discrepancy was a measurement of a wound. But it has no real bearing on this case. It does not change who was shooting and who wasn't/

The detectives followed through just fine. The defense is just trying to make up 'important' things the state never looked into. There is always going to be other things that could have been investigated. You don't have time nor resources to do it all

RBBM, from last thread.Def is certainly going to bring about a defense. For a refresher here is Cross of the ME by LKB starting at 27:25 mark Day 21 Part 5 [video=youtube;qUVaDa6uRCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUVaDa6uRCY[/video]

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

Remainder of Cross, as well as ReDirect and ReCross. Day 21 Part 6 [video=youtube;GF27tLZ-5rw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF27tLZ-5rw[/video]

katydid23 · Apr 2, 2017

Rocco said:
I still haven't quite figured out what further punishment could be handed out to AH if he's found guilty in this trial. He's already serving LWOP for the murder of OL. Is this trial a matter of justice for the families--- getting a conviction of the person who killed their loved ones? The defense isn't 'fighting for his life' as Drama Queen Baez stated in his outburst as AH's life is already over with the previous sentence of LWOP.

I think it is insurance. AH is appealing the prior conviction. If that appeal is successful, it would be nice if this one kicked in. :jail:

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

Day 21 Part 5 Cross My notes:
ME office called 7/16/12 3:14 am, removed from crime scene (if I understood correctly) 1:48 p.m. or arrived at the Cororners office at 1:48 pm

LKB when first seen bodies where they wrapped in white sheets
ME: not that I recall, sheets could have been in body bags.
ME has only seen photos from crime scene.

Re time onset of injury til death. In ME notes and Death Certificate for both Daniel deAbreu and Safiro Furtado : SECONDS.
No amended reports or amended DC

LBK asks when did ME change from seconds to seconds to minutes. Never changed documents. Said when met with Pros they asked how long think deAbreu lived,said she believes may have said seconds poss minutes When did she first realize the Pros need pain and suffering for de Abreu? OBJ, Over Ruled
Document from Pros (CW) stated that you would testify to minutes. OBJ Side Bar
Many objections by the CW and were overruled by judge.

katydid23 · Apr 2, 2017

arkansasmimi said:
Day 21 Part 5 Cross My notes:
ME office called 7/16/12 3:14 am, removed from crime scene (if I understood correctly) 1:48 p.m. or arrived at the Cororners office at 1:48 pm

LKB when first seen bodies where they wrapped in white sheets
ME: not that I recall, sheets could have been in body bags.
ME has only seen photos from crime scene.

Re time onset of injury til death. In ME notes and Death Certificate for both Daniel deAbreu and Safiro Furtado : SECONDS.
No amended reports or amended DC

LBK asks when did ME change from seconds to seconds to minutes. Never changed documents. Said when met with Pros they asked how long think deAbreu lived,said she believes may have said seconds poss minutes When did she first realize the Pros need pain and suffering for de Abreu? OBJ, Over Ruled
Document from Pros (CW) stated that you would testify to minutes. OBJ Side Bar
Many objections by the CW and were overruled by judge.

None of this denies that AH was the shooter.

It only goes to the sentencing. More time is given if there was pain and suffering.

But it does nothing to show that AH is not the shooter.

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

Day 21 Part 6
Measurements de Abreau in ME Autopsy report July 17, 2012 **she came to Boston Mass job in 2011 Board Certified year prior to autopsies**
exhibit #371
A: 13 1/2 inches right side from top of head
B: 14 1/2 inches from top of head
C:12 3/4 inches from top of head
D: 15 (or 15 1/2 inch heard both) from top of head

Currently believes the measurements are incorrect. Did not refer back to XRays to make this determination, just by looking at photos. Did not make any Amended notes or Amend any documents as to the measurements being off.

LKB asked about "puckering" of skin above the dowel. ME says cant tell

Met with DA in Jan 2017 to prepare for what would testify to at trial. Pros stated in their documents to Def/Court that ME would testify to seconds to minutes ME did not authorize the DA to state that (CW obj and Judge Locke overruled)

ME noted on autopsy report term that means they were wrinkly -palms of hands and bottom of feet wet like been wet. ME testifies she thinks it was raining that night LKB says you think it was raining that night? ME yes but do not know for sure and LKB asks did she check on that, ME no I did not. **From video I have seen played it does not appear to have been raining to me**

LBK when first time learned would be involved in testifying in AH case
ME not sure
LKB at time completed autopsies not aware of AH
ME correct

ME did not change opinion on wound tract, no doc that reflects measurements did not review xrays.

**LKB keeps asking about referring back to xrays. So I feel sure the Def expert will have done that**

ME too photo of body with dowels in anatomically correct position. laying flat, arms to side palms up.
LKB Possibly had arm up at time of shooting?
ME can't answer

Furtado arm dowel Def exhibit #376 Left is comp generated completed to help pros Right is actual black and white photo
LKB asked about the skin pulled up by dowel in Right photo. *asked prior but ME wasnt sure what speaking of now recognizes photo.
LKB ask about trajectory analysis change
ME not sure how to answer

ME's CV has no Forensic Pathology Publications,

Started autopsy of Furtato at 10:25 a.m. and at 10:50 a.m. started de Abreu no end time listed for either autopsy.

LKB asked about with tank tshirt and outer shirt with holes in back. ME believes they line up with exit wound. **jmho this will come into play for Def on measurements.

Wounds abrasion collar directional was not done
Did do angulation no nor was asked to.

an·gu·la·tion (ăng′gyə-lā′shən)
n.
1. The formation of angles.
2. An angular part, position, or formation.

angulation (ˌæŋɡjʊˈleɪʃən)
n
1. an angular formation
2. (Surveying) the precise measurement of angles
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/angulation

katydid23 · Apr 2, 2017

arkansasmimi said:
Day 21 Part 6
Measurements de Abreau in ME Autopsy report July 17, 2012 **she came to Boston Mass job in 2011 Board Certified year prior to autopsies**
exhibit #371
A: 13 1/2 inches right side from top of head
B: 14 1/2 inches from top of head
C:12 3/4 inches from top of head
D: 15 (or 15 1/2 inch heard both) from top of head

Currently believes the measurements are incorrect. Did not refer back to XRays to make this determination, just by looking at photos. Did not make any Amended notes or Amend any documents as to the measurements being off.

LKB asked about "puckering" of skin above the dowel. ME says cant tell

Met with DA in Jan 2017 to prepare for what would testify to at trial. Pros stated in their documents to Def/Court that ME would testify to seconds to minutes ME did not authorize the DA to state that (CW obj and Judge Locke overruled)

ME noted on autopsy report term that means they were wrinkly -palms of hands and bottom of feet wet like been wet. ME testifies she thinks it was raining that night LKB says you think it was raining that night? ME yes but do not know for sure and LKB asks did she check on that, ME no I did not. **From video I have seen played it does not appear to have been raining to me**

LBK when first time learned would be involved in testifying in AH case
ME not sure
LKB at time completed autopsies not aware of AH
ME correct

ME did not change opinion on wound tract, no doc that reflects measurements did not review xrays.

**LKB keeps asking about referring back to xrays. So I feel sure the Def expert will have done that**

ME too photo of body with dowels in anatomically correct position. laying flat, arms to side palms up.
LKB Possibly had arm up at time of shooting?
ME can't answer

Furtado arm dowel Def exhibit #376 Left is comp generated completed to help pros Right is actual black and white photo
LKB asked about the skin pulled up by dowel in Right photo. *asked prior but ME wasnt sure what speaking of now recognizes photo.
LKB ask about trajectory analysis change
ME not sure how to answer

ME's CV has no Forensic Pathology Publications,

Started autopsy of Furtato at 10:25 a.m. and at 10:50 a.m. started de Abreu no end time listed for either autopsy.

LKB asked about with tank tshirt and outer shirt with holes in back. ME believes they line up with exit wound. **jmho this will come into play for Def on measurements.

Wounds abrasion collar directional was not done
Did do angulation no nor was asked to.

an·gu·la·tion (ăng′gyə-lā′shən)
n.
1. The formation of angles.
2. An angular part, position, or formation.

angulation (ˌæŋɡjʊˈleɪʃən)
n
1. an angular formation
2. (Surveying) the precise measurement of angles
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/angulation

What does any of this prove?

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

Day 21 part 6 cont

ME is from N.M asked about Michael Haag (Michael Haag Bullet Forensics Testified earlier in this case) She know of him He did not call her nor did she speak to anyone.

ReDirect only asked abound wound reconstruction, ME unsure if shooter was in a fixed position . LKB obj multiple times and was Sustained. (leading witness)
Asked about the pruning of feet and hands. ME Says there was documentation from EMTs about excessive sweating **but on Cross she thought that it was rainging?**

ReCross, LKB asked about washing of hands and feet and would not be excessibe, ME not excessive.

LKB asked if ME knew of Dr. Jamie Downs,
ME Yes, believes taught a course that ME was at ** THIS IS Def Expert Witness see next post

LKB asked if ME taught courses of wound construction (iirc asked if was certified to teach and said no, but could be misremembering on this)
ME No
LKB do you teach wound reconstruction to LEO or FBI
ME No

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

COMMONWEALTH
V.
AARON HERNANEZ
AMENDED DEFENDANT’S LIST OF POTENTIAL WITNESSES
Pg 1/11
Dr. Jaime Downs. Forensic Pathologist who will be discussing ME jurisdiction
and preservation of evidence related to human bodies at scenes, appropriate ME
scene procedures and rationale for same; Autopsy procedure & evidence
collection, documentation, & preservation and the rationale for same; Cause &
Manner of death; The nature of gunshot wounds, to include but not limited to
entry wounds, exit wounds, fragmentation, atypical entry wounds, range of fire,
trajectory, relative position, the use of bullet fragments to determine
trajectory, distance and angle of gunfire based on wound circumstances and
patterns; Responsive to any opinions of Dr. Lindstrom or any other state’s expert
who testifies in areas relating to the expertise of Forensic Pathology; Wound
interpretation of decedents as it relates to the surrounding evidence including the
BMW; and the wound of passenger Freire; and That the evidence is consistent
with 6 shots being fired. http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_4afbf5aaf0dd4afbaa056f2b97a2b945.pdf

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

katydid23 said:
What does any of this prove?

Respectfully nothing if you have your mind made up already. I personally as I always try to do, go by evidence as presented at trial. The ME was not cool and collects. She was anything but. No matter what her ability at present, these 2 autopsies were done 1 year after she was board certified and had not done many gun shot autopsies. Made errors that she now sees and yet not. amended. The Def is showing that prior to knowing it was AH trial the length of time was seconds, yet now since Jan 2017 she states seconds to minutes, yet has no documentation saying that. And once seeing her own discrepancy in the inches, did not review the xrays and be prepared to answer questions about it. JMHO the questions about the 2 shirts are going to come back up and there will be measurements of those and will conflict with the ME testimony and report.

ME said she thought it was raining when first asked about the wet hands and feet? Did you see any rain in those videos? **granted I have not checked but will to see if was and if they could been left layed out in water.

Respect, JMHO So far the CM seems not very strong in their evidence and especially their witnesses. You can disregard testimony if you wish. I choose not to. My opinion nor anyone not in that jury box matters in the verdict. I just spoke up on my opinion as others do on any cases on WS. My opinions reflect not on my emotions but on actual testimony which I referenced back to.

arkansasmimi · Apr 2, 2017

katydid23 said:
None of this denies that AH was the shooter.

It only goes to the sentencing. More time is given if there was pain and suffering.

But it does nothing to show that AH is not the shooter.

And on ReDirect the CW did not address any of the autopsy notes/DC statements of SECONDS, and the ME not authorizing CW to state minutes. There is a lot that can still fall to reasonable doubt. Trial not over yet only the CW. They could always bring someone back as Rebuttal. Defense is doing what Defense is suppose to do.

MA - Aaron Hernandez, New England Patriots player, charged with homicides #6

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