The Bread Knife

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Desilu

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Was the knife used to cut the screen tested for any presence of blood that might have been washed off?
 
Yes, I believe that it was and none was found. You'd have to search the transcripts though for a source.
 
I do think finding no trace of blood can mean perhaps two things.

That the murders were premeditated, meaning she slit the window before she killed the boys.
That Darin participated by slitting the window.

I can't see her not getting blood on the bread knife, after she had gotten her wounds. With all the dripping in the utility room, I would think some blood would have gotten on that knife.
 
Desilu said:
I do think finding no trace of blood can mean perhaps two things.

That the murders were premeditated, meaning she slit the window before she killed the boys.
That Darin participated by slitting the window.

I can't see her not getting blood on the bread knife, after she had gotten her wounds. With all the dripping in the utility room, I would think some blood would have gotten on that knife.
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I think Darin slit the screen. I think he did the outside things. But, remember those paper-cut like cuts on Darlie's fingers? Could those have been from holding the screen taunt to cut it?
 
beesy said:
I think Darin slit the screen. I think he did the outside things. But, remember those paper-cut like cuts on Darlie's fingers? Could those have been from holding the screen taunt to cut it?
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I don't think so. I have a hard time envisioning that.
 
Desilu said:
I do think finding no trace of blood can mean perhaps two things.

That the murders were premeditated, meaning she slit the window before she killed the boys.
That Darin participated by slitting the window.

I can't see her not getting blood on the bread knife, after she had gotten her wounds. With all the dripping in the utility room, I would think some blood would have gotten on that knife.
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I dont think Darin had anything to do with the murders -I think he may have been involved in the coverup- were ther any fingerprints on the knife in question?
I believe they were premediated...by Darlie...........
 
Goody said:
I don't think so. I have a hard time envisioning that.
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yeah, that's why I keep thinking Darin cut the screen. I just can't get those little cuts out of my head
 
beesy said:
yeah, that's why I keep thinking Darin cut the screen. I just can't get those little cuts out of my head
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I think he cut the screen because there was no blood found outside. It seems more logical to me that he did it. Also, if she yelled "Darin" instead of "Karen", it was probably because he was taking too long and she was getting nervous. However, I don't think that theory holds up with what is on the 911 tape. I've never done a serious study of it.

If Darin didn't cut the screen, it had to be premeditated. Maybe poorly planned but planned in advance and I have a hard time seeing her doing all of that by herself without at least moral support.
 
j2mirish said:
I dont think Darin had anything to do with the murders -I think he may have been involved in the coverup- were ther any fingerprints on the knife in question?
I believe they were premediated...by Darlie...........
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Darin has too many conflicting things about him to not be involved somehow. For example, Darin sounds like he is legitimately in shock and upset on the 911 tape. He desribes things as appearing to be in slow motion. It seems like a surreal experience. All things that point to an innocent Darin. But then he is already coming up with excuses for Darlie at the hospital even before police are suspecting her. So now we have an innocent Darin who doesn't ask about his kids AND has decided within minutes he needs to explain why she would be the perfect target for some guy....she is so pretty, beautiful, did you see her breast? I don't buy the notion that he turned on a dime that morning. "I am so hysterical and devastated that my kids are dead that I must protect my wife in case she did it...Oops." It doesn't add up.

But then if he cut the screen to help her do the staging, why did he go to the house on Bond street right before the trial to look at the screens there?
 
Goody said:
I think he cut the screen because there was no blood found outside. It seems more logical to me that he did it. Also, if she yelled "Darin" instead of "Karen", it was probably because he was taking too long and she was getting nervous. However, I don't think that theory holds up with what is on the 911 tape. I've never done a serious study of it.
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Which theory, that she's calling Darin? That happens at about 1 and a half mins into the tape and at a place where he is not heard in the background. The first PO doesn't arrive until about 2 mintues later. It fits just fine. I can also see her becoming nervous. One and a half minutes seems like a long time. Dispatch was telling her someone was on the way. I too think Darin sounds upset on the tape. You're right he does describe some trauma reactions. So when did he turn? I know when I first heard the tape, I thought Darlie sounded real too. I listened and listened to it and finally heard the whiny voice. It's hard to listen to it and not hear horror because you expect it to be there. Could we be hearing something in Darin's voice that is also an act? He's always in the background. His voice is never clear. It's difficult to figure out what he's even saying. And remember there's that place on the tape where it sounds like she's saying "WTF are doing Darin, you're screwing up the story". At that point he's already faking things within just a minute or so of the upset sounding voice. We don't know how long they waited before she called 911. I believe he was horrified when he first came downstairs. How long did it take him to decide to help her? He must be faking it on the tape, otherwise, he would have had to turned on a dime, right?

If Darin didn't cut the screen, it had to be premeditated. Maybe poorly planned but planned in advance and I have a hard time seeing her doing all of that by herself without at least moral support
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 Well I suppose most murders, except self-defense are premeditated, even if just by a few minutes. She made the decision to go get that knife. But, as far as inventing that story and doing some of the other things, those were done of the fly. IMO So the question is did she think of her story before she killed them and cut the screen or was it something they both thought up after talking about it for what several minutes? Was there any coagulated blood around Devon?
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Goody said:
He desribes things as appearing to be in slow motion. It seems like a surreal experience. All things that point to an innocent Darin.
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He describes the shock only as occuring right when he comes downstairs
But then he is already coming up with excuses for Darlie at the hospital even before police are suspecting her. So now we have an innocent Darin who doesn't ask about his kids AND has decided within minutes he needs to explain why she would be the perfect target for some guy....she is so pretty, beautiful, did you see her breast? I don't buy the notion that he turned on a dime that morning. "I am so hysterical and devastated that my kids are dead that I must protect my wife in case she did it...Oops." It doesn't add up.
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It seems he was already defending her or creating a story while she is on the phone with 911. Remember the "someone came in here and intentionally did this, Darin"?

But then if he cut the screen to help her do the staging, why did he go to the house on Bond street right before the trial to look at the screens there?
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Explain this again, I can't remember
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Well I suppose most murders, except self-defense are premeditated, even if just by a few minutes. She made the decision to go get that knife.
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Just because of the sheer horror of the murders, and in not understanding how a mother could do this I tend to think she just flipped out and started stabbing. If she cut that screen first, that shows much more clear thinking in my mind.

Now she could have very well wrapped a towel around her cut arm and gone out to the garage, then came back and cut her throat.

Those tiny cuts are her hands can be from just about anywhere, I liken them to paper cuts and could have occured anytime.
 
beesy said:
I think Darin slit the screen. I think he did the outside things. But, remember those paper-cut like cuts on Darlie's fingers? Could those have been from holding the screen taunt to cut it?
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I think that the testimony was that the screen was a fiber or fabric type thing and not metal. I don't think holding it would cut anyone. Or going through cut screen would not scratch anyone. I can assume that the material was fiberglass sisnce we have fiberglass rods playing so heavy a part in the discussions.
 
Desilu[b said:
Just because of the sheer horror of the murders, and in not understanding how a mother could do this I tend to think she just flipped out and started stabbing. If she cut that screen first, that shows much more clear thinking in my mind.[/b]
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I don't think she cut the screen first either, well most of me doesn't. If she freaked out and just started stabbing though, that means she would have been near the knife when she grabbed it in a fit of passion. I don't think that's what happened. She had to get it into her head to leave the family room and go to that butcher block, even if it was only seconds.
Those tiny cuts are her hands can be from just about anywhere, I liken them to paper cuts and could have occured anytime.
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Maybe from the bills and insurance papers she was looking at that night..lol
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beesy said:
[/b][/color][/b][/color]
Which theory, that she's calling Darin? That happens at about 1 and a half mins into the tape and at a place where he is not heard in the background. The first PO doesn't arrive until about 2 mintues later. It fits just fine. I can also see her becoming nervous. One and a half minutes seems like a long time. Dispatch was telling her someone was on the way. I too think Darin sounds upset on the tape. You're right he does describe some trauma reactions. So when did he turn? I know when I first heard the tape, I thought Darlie sounded real too. I listened and listened to it and finally heard the whiny voice. It's hard to listen to it and not hear horror because you expect it to be there. Could we be hearing something in Darin's voice that is also an act? He's always in the background. His voice is never clear. It's difficult to figure out what he's even saying. And remember there's that place on the tape where it sounds like she's saying "WTF are doing Darin, you're screwing up the story". At that point he's already faking things within just a minute or so of the upset sounding voice. We don't know how long they waited before she called 911. I believe he was horrified when he first came downstairs. How long did it take him to decide to help her? He must be faking it on the tape, otherwise, he would have had to turned on a dime, right?
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Yes, And the turning on the dime doesn't fit. I mean, who does that in the real world? Maybe some drugged out low lifes in the trashy trailer park, but not regular folks like the Routiers. Maybe they weren't as regular as some of us,but they still fit into the average category. Believing Darin came downstairs and went hysterical when he saw that his kids were not going to live long enough to get medical help, and a few seconds later said to himself, "O, crap, my wife did this. Guess I had better back her up so the cops don't think I was in on it," is crazy. That didn't happen.


beesy said:
[/b]
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beesy said:
Well I suppose most murders, except self-defense are premeditated, even if just by a few minutes. She made the decision to go get that knife. But, as far as inventing that story and doing some of the other things, those were done of the fly. IMO So the question is did she think of her story before she killed them and cut the screen or was it something they both thought up after talking about it for what several minutes? Was there any coagulated blood around Devon? [/b][/color][/color]
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I don't know what the blood around Devon was like, but if you read the autopsy report, there is no time of death listed for him. That is because no medical personnel were with him when he died. The body temperature drops only about a degree to a degree and a half every hour, so he easily could have been dead sometime before the 911 call was made, before Damon was even stabbed.

When you look at the stories, evidence,etc, about half of it appears organized and the other half haphazard. What would cause that?

When I first looked at the blood evidence, it seemed like someone had tracked back and forth bleeding just to mess up the crime scene, to make it harder for investigators to track later. Then I thought there were really two crime scenes, meaning the murders had not happened at the same time so one crime scene tracked over on top of the other in parts. Now I think that it was more likely just Darlie pacing back and forth in a nervous attempt to make sure she had covered everything, which may or may not have included some of my first two theories.

That caused her to have to come up with a story that would have her going back and forth between the two rooms. That and she had to explain why she hadn't tried to hold one of her boys to comfort him....she'd been too busy bringing them wet towels to sit still anywhere and give comfort.

Sort of makes one wonder if that wasn't her parenting m.o. in general. We hear lots of talk about the things they did, the nice things she bought for them, her interactions with them as far as talking to them or reprimanding them, but nothing about her cuddling them or tickling them or playing with them, etc. I wonder how loving she actually was, whether she was touchy feely or distant and detached. I know, off track a bit here. <heh-heh>
 
beesy said:
I don't think she cut the screen first either, well most of me doesn't. If she freaked out and just started stabbing though, that means she would have been near the knife when she grabbed it in a fit of passion. I don't think that's what happened. She had to get it into her head to leave the family room and go to that butcher block, even if it was only seconds.
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It all depends on which theory you prefer. She could have planned it earlier, cutting the screen after Darin went to bed, and setting the scene or part of it before the murders. Or she could have lost it and just grabbed the knife that was laying nearby from an earlier dramatic event with Darin. I don't have a problem seeing him holding a knife to his heart and asking her to just cut it out when she starts demanding a separation in an effort to make him hound his customers for money due him. He might have left the knife on the coffee table before he went to bed without thinking twice about it.



beesy said:
Maybe from the bills and insurance papers she was looking at that night..lol
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beesy said:
Don't laugh. That is exactly where she could have gotten them. They say they were arguing over money. Maybe he snatched some papers out of her hands and cut her fingers. Maybe she somehow cut her fingers slightly on the knife. Maybe, maybe, maybe......
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First of all this forum is fantastic!

I've been reading the transcripts and just about everything I can get my hands on and the bread knife confuses me.

Was it used to cut the screen, the point of entry? If so, since Darlie claims it was intruder(s) who stabbed her babies and herself, how did they (intruders) manage to get the bread knife so they could enter the home before entering the home?
 
Turnadot said:
First of all this forum is fantastic!

I've been reading the transcripts and just about everything I can get my hands on and the bread knife confuses me.

Was it used to cut the screen, the point of entry? If so, since Darlie claims it was intruder(s) who stabbed her babies and herself, how did they (intruders) manage to get the bread knife so they could enter the home before entering the home?
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Darlie and her team dispute the evidence on the bread knife being the knife that actually cut the screen. They try to say that the micro fibers/glass rods found on the knife were from the fingerprint dusting brush.

Yes, I enjoy this forum too. Some very smart people here who will help you sort out any confusion you might have....
 
whitywendy said:
Darlie and her team dispute the evidence on the bread knife being the knife that actually cut the screen. They try to say that the micro fibers/glass rods found on the knife were from the fingerprint dusting brush.

Yes, I enjoy this forum too. Some very smart people here who will help you sort out any confusion you might have....
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Hmm, well, that sounds absurd.

Thank you, whitywendy :)
 
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