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  1. #1
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    IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

    NEW RULE: IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER YOU MUST GET PERMISSION FIRST. PLEASE SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ANY OF THE MODERATORS. BE PATIENT BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE TIME TO GET BACK WITH YOU



    Dear Websleuths Members,

    Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

    People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

    They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

    Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

    I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

    You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

    Please take a moment to read our rules
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

    Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

    Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

    Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

    Tricia Griffith
    Owner/Websleuths.com

    PS. Thank you KayElJay for letting me post in your opening post.







    MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trai
    l


    Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.


    Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

    Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

    State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.

    Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls’ bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

    ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

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    *Media Maps & Timelines*

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    Case map by skibaboo updated with the latest grayhuze crime flow video
    Last edited by tlcya; 04-25-2017 at 03:39 PM. Reason: add link to previous

  2. #2
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    Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

    Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at
    (800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

    Information can also be emailed to
    Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

    Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

    SGT. KIM RILEY, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone) with CNN re: three posts in the image on the bridge

    RILEY: We have looked at it. We`ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture -- we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there`s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you`ll notice that there`s actually three poles there to keep cars from being -- trying to drive across the bridge. So that`s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks.

    Teen used cell phone to capture chilling audio of her killer: Police
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

    mni wiconi - Lakota for Water is Life.

  3. #3
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    ADMIN NOTE: Do NOT post photos of random individuals in a side by side fashion to compare with unidentified suspect. You may be sleuthing someone ten ways to Sunday but do NOT post about it here. Until there is a named suspect to sleuth it is against TOS.

    [ETA = in light of the recent search warrant executed at the property and residence of RL the decision has been made to allow limited sleuthing of RL. You may sleuth what is public record, including past criminal or legal history. You may discuss whether or not you feel his voice or appearance match the evidence shared by LE. You may NOT sleuth his family members, friends, acquaintances, etc. Please keep it on the rails.]

    If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

    Posts that are outside the rules are subject to removal without warning or explanation. Members who continue to post against the rules are subject to a loss of posting privileges.

    Please continue discussing while being mindful of the rules which can always be found linked in my signature.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

    mni wiconi - Lakota for Water is Life.

  4. #4
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    ADMIN NOTE: Because so many members were brand new, we, the owner and staff, have been very patient with you. We thought you deserved some time to learn the ropes. Well, you've had almost two weeks to figure out how we roll here. If you haven't bothered to read the Rules, especially Etiquette and Information, then shame on ya.

    Going forward, we will issue Time Outs of 24 hours or longer. No excuses, no questions asked. Consider this a fair warning.

    Bessie
    WS ADMINISTRATOR
    PODCAST ROW

    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK
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    Always give generously of yourself to support your beliefs. And when you're knocked down, give more.




  5. #5
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    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha
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    ATTENTION EVERYONE:

    With the latest search warrant being served at the home of property owner Ron Logan we have decided to open up Ron Logan to sleuthing with these rules:

    *Use his initials only (R.L.) or call him the land owner.

    *This does not mean you can sleuth his family or neighbors.

    *In the event you do discover something about someone else who happens to be connected to R.L. and you think
    it is related to the case you must check with us before you post it.

    * R.L HAS NOT BEEN NAMED A PERSON OF INTEREST. Please do not accuse him of the crime.

    If you have any questions alert on any post and send us your question. Or you can send a private message to one of the mods.

    To reiterate, You can now sleuth the land owner R.L. but ONLY R.L. No accusing R.L. or anyone of being the killer.

    Thank you,
    Tricia






    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    This just in from Alexis McAdams:

    BREAKING: ISP,FBI & Carrol Co. Sheriffs served search warrant at home of Ron Logan- owner of the property where the girls bodies were found

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumzero View Post
    Well, it remains unclear to me. I can see no difference between what we're allowed to do, even though LE has repeatedly said RL is not a suspect in the murders, and what we would be allowed to do if, in fact, LE had said RL is a suspect in the murders. In both cases, we'd have to say we don't know for sure and, therefore, it'd only be an opinion. I guess I have a hard time seeing any real limits to the sleuthing. Does that make sense?

    Let me try and clear this up for you.


    Always remember hardly anything on Websleuths is Black and White. Websleuths has lots of gray areas.


    Rarely do police ever say someone is a suspect unless it is obvious like Bridge Guy.


    What we have to do in certain cases is use our common sense.


    Why did the police get a search warrant for RL the land owner where Abby and Libby's bodies were found?


    Why did the police violate his parole? If someone could find a link verifying this. I will retract if I am incorrect.


    Why was RL given over three years in prison for driving convictions?

    Didn't the police say he was not cooperating? You have to wonder if there is a deal to be made with RL if he cooperates.


    Is there anyone else the police are looking into that has anything close to the connection to the case like RL other than BG?


    To get a search warrant for his house police needed probable cause.


    As the owner of Websleuths, it is up to me to make these decisions about who can be discussed and who can't. I do so by following the Websleuths guidelines along with discussing among the mods and using common sense.


    Here is another good example. The murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.


    Her husband Mark wasn't ever pointed out as a suspect until shortly before he was arrested. However, his behavior made it obvious he was hiding something. This is why early on Websleuths allowed Mark Sievers to be discussed as a suspect. Same with his friend Wayne.


    We take each case on its merits.


    In this case, because the police had probable cause for a search warrant members can sleuth RL ONLY. Not his family, not his friends. Also, we have stated over and over no one is saying he is guilty. If someone calls him a murderer please alert and we will remove.


    So when a member feels like a guy that used to date Abby or Libby's mom kind of looks like BG and wants to sleuth him we say absolutely not.


    RL owned the land the bodies were found on. We did not allow sleuthing him at this point at all. It was only when the police served the search warrant did we allow members to sleuth.


    Police have said he is not a suspect. They said this before, during, and after the search warrant of RL's home.


    You have to use common sense and go by what police have done in the past to make these decisions.


    One more thing, we only allow the initials of RL. Why? So when someone Googles his name Websleuths won't come up.


    However, you go to all the other sites on the Internet, and they are tearing RL apart, using his real name and sleuthing God knows what about his past.


    At Websleuths we do our best to balance between letting you discuss and being sensitive to people's situations.


    You will not find any other forum on the Internet that works harder than we do to be as fair as possible.


    Remember, if it too much for you and you feel it's wrong no one is forcing you to stay.


    Thank you,
    Tricia
    Websleuths is TEMPORARILY accepting donations.
    For a more detail explanation of why Websleuths is asking for your help CLICK HERE











  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    He's taller because I resized the photo when I worked on it, and didn't get it back down to the exact size when I was done. Part of the "skinnier" is from removing the 'aura' around him (from movement). I think I may have accidentally taken a bit of his right elbow, but I didn't slim him down. I think most of the difference is just perception, but I've been wrong before.

    MOO
    Quote Originally Posted by ab01 View Post
    Thanks for clearifying, I think some of the things people are seeing maybe do to resizing. It can bee tricky to resize and keep proportioning the same. Appreciate all your efforts....
    Admin Note

    Jumping off of these posts -
    I meant to come back and post last night after closing the thread but I fell asleep.

    Over the weekend I asked Tricia specifically about the photos that have been enhanced, altered to remove the background, zoomed in for focus, etc.... She advised that the photos posted are fine for sleuthing purposes. (Nothing new. This has been permitted in many threads.) Here's the deal - it's all about perception. Give each photo as much weight as you see fit, disregard the ones you doubt the depict differently than intended. What is not permitted is an ongoing back & forth, particularly insinuating the people working on the photos have intentionally altered the images to mislead others. Either you find them helpful, or you don't. If you don't, disregard and scroll and roll on past. It's that simple.

    Also, any mention of posters who are on time out is strictly prohibited. I easily could have TO'd a few people last night but chose not to because for the most part, this thread was very pleasant and civil until late afternoon. We are very grateful for the civility and change in tone. However, be advised any further references to those posters not currently here will result in a loss a posting privileges for the those choosing to violate that rule.

    *please bump as needed*

  8. #8
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    Reminder:

    From theindychannelcom/delphi

    All week we're remembering the lives of Abby Williams and Liberty German, two teens who were killed in the small town of Delphi, Indiana. Watch these reports each night on RTV6 at 6pm, and join us Thursday at 7pm for a special newscast; Delphi Daughters: The Untold Story of Abby & Libby. Visit theindychannel.com/delphi for more.
    Letters from Prison

    https://lettersfromprisonsite.wordpress.com


    This site is in remembrance of a dear friend that was incarcerated at the age of 16. Serving three consecutive life sentences with no chance of parole led him to suicide at the age of 25. These are excerpts from his letters during the last four years of his life, the end of 2012 to the beginning of 2017. Four days before his suicide, I received these chilling last words. "I will try to get a medication change soon. I do not think my current meds are working. At least that seems to be the case."

  9. #9
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    For those who may be unfamiliar with the scene, YouTube and WS member "Gray Hughes" pieced together various videos regarding this case, as he has for some other high-profile cases.

    This video shows the trail from the parking area to the Monon High Bridge, across the bridge, what many think happened when the girls came across Bridge Guy (BG), and the possible path taken to where they were found. Two great videos towards the end are from member Julie, and a MSM video from the crime scene (CS).



    The walk to and across the bridge is sped up 10%, according to GH.
    Last edited by Falling Down; 04-25-2017 at 07:27 PM.


    Justice for Abigail Williams and Liberty German

    Justice for Brittanee Drexel

    Justice for all child and juvenile victims of monsters

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    following


  11. #11
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    This is unbelievable. We have photos and even a snippet of an audio. We have a timeline, of a sort. And their bodies were recovered very quickly, so one would think LE has the approximate time of death and cause of death. Copious amounts of LE manpower and tips and nationwide - even worldwide attention. Yet here we are on thread #54 and no arrest. The only thing keeping me from being more discouraged is LE has additional info that can lead them to the killer and maybe they are just putting together the pieces on a possible identified person.
    Justice might be blind, but Karma has the vision of a hawk. ~ Connie Fletcher, crime author

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket View Post
    Reminder:

    From theindychannelcom/delphi

    All week we're remembering the lives of Abby Williams and Liberty German, two teens who were killed in the small town of Delphi, Indiana. Watch these reports each night on RTV6 at 6pm, and join us Thursday at 7pm for a special newscast; Delphi Daughters: The Untold Story of Abby & Libby. Visit theindychannel.com/delphi for more.
    Thanks Rocket!


    I was wondering if anyone knows if this able to play live anywhere outside of Indiana? TIA
    My posts are my opinion only unless I provided links for facts, I respect yours and all opinions that are different then mine.

    Please don't confuse facts with opinions it can effect more then our own little world.

  13. #13
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    This is unusual for me. I'm all caught up and can't think of anything to say! Rather than just let people have a break, I decided to add some of my lists I use in case they might help spur someone else on to a theory of some kind.

    First I have a list of people I think could be responsible (not names, just general types.)
    1. RSO (obviously)
    2. Young man/men who are sadistic and wanted to move on to the next step - from tormenting/killing animals and fighting weaker guys, assaulting girls, harassing people in general, etc. to actual murder.
    3. Someone having a psychotic break (not likely, I think more evidence would have been left behind.)
    4. Serial killer, experienced or beginning
    5. Serial rapist who hasn't been caught before.
    6. Someone with a personal grievance
    7. Someone who was romantically interested in one of the girls (or a mother, sister, etc.) and was spurned.
    8. Truck driver, for whatever reason
    9. Drifter who tried to steal from them but lost control of the situation.
    10. Just about anybody else

    Next is a list of how he/they got control of the girls.
    1. He used a gun or knife to threaten them.
    2. He "ambushed" them as they exited the bridge.
    3. He chased them and caught them or caught one and the other came back to help her.
    4. He struck one putting her temporarily out of commission and grabbed the other, and got the other one up after the first one grabbed was restrained.
    5. He had a partner who was hidden close by who helped.
    6. He had a partner who played their 'savior' and grabbed them when they ran to him.
    7. Any number of other ways.

    Last one for now is how he got away unseen.
    1. He had a car parked close by and cut through the wooded area to get to it.
    2. He had a car parked at/by the cemetery and calmly drove away
    3. He lives close by and walked home.
    4. He works close by and he walked to work (second shift) when done.
    5. He works close by and returned to work to get his car when done.
    6. He stayed out of sight and joined the searchers when they started arriving.
    7. He hid out in an out building on a near property until after dark.
    8. He's smarter than I am and had another way.

    Sorry if this is useless info, but it does help me to organize things in my mind if I write them down.
    All MOO
    Every murderer is someone's old friend ... Agatha Christie

  14. #14
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    I'm self-moderating and editing my post.

    Background: I asked a question based on an LE quote that I totally misread. Now that I understand the original quote, my question is 100% OBE.

    Thanks to everyone who helped me understand my error. I so appreciate it!

    and
    Last edited by SomeoneElse333; 04-25-2017 at 08:28 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeoneElse333 View Post
    In the previous thread, I read a quote from LE that said something about not having seen anything like this in this country before.

    LE's statement gives me pause. I wonder why they qualified​ that statement with "in this country."

    In a much earlier thread, someone theorized that A&L might have been the victims of an acid attack. I had never heard of that before, and it sounded like a reach. I've since seen a few stories about it happening abroad. Now I'm wondering about that and anything else that might make this crime unique in the U.S. Has this been discussed? I apologize if so...the volume of info makes it challenging to keep up at times.
    It made me want to research crimes the county has seen, I felt the same and paused. Imo always but no worries here on bringing up anything like that again, especially given LE said those words. It makes ya wonder.

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