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  1. #1
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    2017.04.26 - Sanders & Dems Introduce $15 Minimum Wage Bill

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b081a5c0f9539c

    Under the proposal, the federal minimum wage would go from $7.25 to $9.25 in 2017, before proceeding to $12 in 2020 and $15 in 2024. Thereafter, the minimum would rise in tandem with median wage growth.

    The legislation would also gradually increase the lower minimum wages for tipped workers and workers with disabilities employed in specialized workplaces so they achieve parity with the broader minimum wage.
    It's a much needed increase. The federal minimum wage hasn't been increased since 2009.

    Since it's inception, increases in the federal minimum wage have always been followed by increases in job growth. The only exception was 2008, when the US economy experienced it's biggest economic crash since the Great Depression. Not surprising. The economic crash that began in 2008 was related to the near collapse of the US banking industry.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-minimum-wage/

    This is a great development, a step towards reducing our growing economic inequality in the US.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  2. #2
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    ignorant losers. whats their bill do for skilled hourly workers making above minimum wage?
    “You may choose to look the other way but you can never say again that you did not know.”

    ― William Wilberforce

    "Be sure and make a good job of it!"

    -Harry Harbord Morant

    "All we ask is to be let alone."

    -Jefferson Davis

  3. #3
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    I remember the last time minimum wage was increased. We were in line at the check out at Walmart and all the cashiers were angry. They said they could barely afford to buy food and diapers on their minimum wage as it was and the prices would go up more than their increase would cover.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tillicum View Post
    I remember the last time minimum wage was increased. We were in line at the check out at Walmart and all the cashiers were angry. They said they could barely afford to buy food and diapers on their minimum wage as it was and the prices would go up more than their increase would cover.
    Right! So sad the Walton's with their billions have us supporting their workers with food stamps and other assistance. The taxpaper pays and the Walton's rake in their billions. I never ever ever ever shop at Walmart. Never

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tillicum View Post
    I remember the last time minimum wage was increased. We were in line at the check out at Walmart and all the cashiers were angry. They said they could barely afford to buy food and diapers on their minimum wage as it was and the prices would go up more than their increase would cover.
    That would be WalMart's fault.


    Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance

    Walmart's low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.
    "It found that a single Walmart Supercenter cost taxpayers between $904,542 and $1.75 million per year, or between $3,015 and $5,815 on average for each of 300 workers."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangelo View Post
    ignorant losers. whats their bill do for skilled hourly workers making above minimum wage?
    I don't support a federal $15/ hr minimum because it will not help the very people it is aiming to help-- low skilled entry level workers. In fact, it is a huge incentive for franchises and small businesses to eliminate jobs, or reduce hours, and return to paying people "under the table". YOu have to remember that if this is enacted, EVERYONE will be paying more for everything. And that will affect low income people disproportionately. Everyone will be paying more for diapers, gas, milk, etc. So any gains from the increase in hourly wage for the lowest income workers will be eliminated very rapidly, as will many of their jobs.

    IMO, "income inequality" (stratification of income according to skill and demand) is a sign of a healthy economy. No one should be in a minimum wage job for very long-- none of these kind of jobs are intended to be lifestyle careers. They are places to gain experience on the way to more skilled and higher income jobs.

    So what we'd like to know is what is the level of a minimum wage where it starts to have large effects?

    The actual state of knowledge of the impact that the minimum wage has on employment in North America, and especially in Québec, leads to the conclusion that a minimum wage that is greater than 50% of the average wage is harmful to small wage earners and that a minimum wage that is less than 45% has very little risk for this group of workers. Between these limits, the area of 45% to 50% would represent an increasing danger to employment.

    There's our cut off point. 45 to 50% of the average wage: go above that level and we're harming low paid workers (by making them no longer workers) not helping them. And the median hourly wage for the US is $16.71. The proposal for a $15 an hour minimum wage will make the minimum wage 90% of the median hourly wage: at which point we know very well that we'll be harming low income workers, not aiding them.

    A $15 an hour minimum wage is an absurdity.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#288937053f44

    Ironically, one of the original arguments for the minimum wage was that it would push nonwhites — and women — out of the labor market. Stanford sociologist E.A. Ross defended the minimum wage on the grounds that "(Chinese laborers), though he cannot outdo the American, can underlive him." Some argued that employers should be required to pay immigrants twice the wage of American-born worker so that no firm would hire them.

    Simply put, a minimum wage is no different from a tax on firms that use low-wage and unskilled labor. And if there's anything that economists agree upon, it's that if you tax something you get less of it.

    Even California Gov. Jerry Brown understands this. He just doesn't care. When he signed the new minimum-wage law, he proclaimed, "Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially and politically, they make every sense because it binds the community together to make sure parents can take care of their kids."


    This amounts to grotesque cowardice. If Brown understands that his policy doesn't work economically, he understands that the moral benefits will not materialize (though he'll reap political benefits from those aforementioned unions).

    Assuming it's in everyone's interest to raise the wages of low-income workers, then the government can subsidize those wages without penalizing businesses that give jobs to those most in need of work and work experience. We could, for instance, boost the Earned Income Tax Credit or pay businesses to bump up their payrolls. These approaches have drawbacks too, but they stand a better chance of achieving the moral goals that Brown, Sanders and Clinton have in mind.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...20-column.html

    Four consequences of a $15 minimum wage


    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...htmlstory.html

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    I don't support a federal $15/ hr minimum because it will not help the very people it is aiming to help-- low skilled entry level workers. In fact, it is a huge incentive for franchises and small businesses to eliminate jobs, or reduce hours, and return to paying people "under the table". YOu have to remember that if this is enacted, EVERYONE will be paying more for everything. And that will affect low income people disproportionately. Everyone will be paying more for diapers, gas, milk, etc. So any gains from the increase in hourly wage for the lowest income workers will be eliminated very rapidly, as will many of their jobs.

    IMO, "income inequality" (stratification of income according to skill and demand) is a sign of a healthy economy. No one should be in a minimum wage job for very long-- none of these kind of jobs are intended to be lifestyle careers. They are places to gain experience on the way to more skilled and higher income jobs.



    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#288937053f44



    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...20-column.html



    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...htmlstory.html
    I understand what you're saying, but the bill as introduced will only increase the minimum wage to $9.25 in 2017, with gradual increases in the following years. It won't reach $15 an hour until 2024. This will have a more subtle affect on company costs.

    We have to realize that most companies today are enjoying record profit levels, as evidenced by the booming stock market. There's room for moderate, gradual increases in the minimum wage without a need for increasing prices. The other benefit is that, for these lower wage workers, every extra dollar they earn in wages will be plowed right back into the economy through increased purchasing power. They'll be able to buy a newer car or fix up their home, buy some new clothes, take the family on a small vacation, etc. There's a great deal of pent up demand in markets today with consumers needing to purchase products, but not able to do so because wages have been stagnant for so long. All of that extra purchasing power will continue to make the US economy grow more. As the link to the Pew report shows, over half of the people benefiting from a minimum wage increase are people over age 31.

    In my memory (since the 1960s), every increase in the minimum wage has been opposed by some saying it will harm the economy. It doesn't. It's leaving wages stagnant or declining for years that slows consumer markets.

    ETA: Forbes always argues against minimum wage increases. It's their job. They're just saying what their customers want to hear.

    And as Bernie Sanders says, no American should have to work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, to keep a roof over their heads. $7.25 hr is a starvation wage for an adult.
    Last edited by Betty P; 04-29-2017 at 12:23 AM.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangelo View Post
    ignorant losers. whats their bill do for skilled hourly workers making above minimum wage?
    As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats. A raise in the minimum wage usually trickles up into higher wage categories. The growing economy a wage raise creates makes employers compete with each other to pay for the labor of more highly skilled workers. Like any other item, labor has value, too.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  9. #9
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    How can anyone live on $8 an hour? They cannot so we subsidize businesses such as Walmart and McDonald's. We are paying for these workers anyway so I would rather pay the workers than the Walton's.

    Why should we subsidize the Walton's?

    I think people who can should be able to afford the extra dime or nickel for a product.

  10. #10
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    Moronic.


  11. #11
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    Do unto others. Why do we accept that people have to live in poverty with crap wages? Makes me sick

  12. #12
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    "God helps those who help themselves."

    A $15 minimum wage will not "fix" all of the social problems and bad life choices of adults over age 21 who are unable to get a job paying more than minimum wage.

    The problem is not the $8/hr job, or the "greedy" employer-- the problem, IMO, is the expectation that $8/hr jobs should be "living wages", and that if someone can't live on $8/hr, then we should subsidize their lifestyle and their choices so they are more "equal" to others who have made better life choices and can get jobs paying more than $8/hr.

    No one is forced to take an $8/hr job, and none of these jobs were ever intended to be "careers". Minimum wage jobs are short term bridges to better paying jobs, intended to provide a work history and experience.

    We need to encourage all of our young citizens to stay in high school and graduate, first of all.

    We need to encourage all teens, and ESPECIALLY young women, to take strong and reliable measures to delay having any children until they have a high school diploma, AND a marketable skill to support themselves, and any kids they end up having and raising alone.

    We need to encourage all young people to refrain from criminal activity, so they stay out of jail and prison.

    Then we need to provide cost effective, and subsidized or free, technical and vocational training so that the majority of our young citizens have a marketable skill, and can get a job paying more than minimum wage.

    Finally, we need to encourage those who go to colleges and universities to major in *something* that will produce a marketable professional SKILL that will allow them to get a job paying more than minimum wage, so they can support themselves, pay taxes, and pay back their loans.

    We need to stop subsidizing economically worthless college degrees with federal grants and loans, and instead make a list of highly skilled and highly educated career fields that are in demand in the workforce. These are the career fields we should be subsidizing with free tuition, grants, and low interest loans.

    We must explain to every citizen (over and over) that they must take responsibility for their own life actions, and their own decisions, good and bad, and that they will almost certainly have to change jobs and professions several times over a lifetime.

    Every citizen must understand that if there are no good paying jobs where they live, then they need to move to another town or state where there are jobs. Or return to school to get a new skill.

    Every citizen must live within their means, to the best of their ability, and understanding that social safety nets should be only for catastrophic situations, and for very limited time frames.

    We must explain over and over and over that America is the land of EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, not the land of “EQUAL OUTCOMES FOR ALL”.

    Finally, we must make certain that every citizen understands that it is not the job of the “government” to take care of all of their needs, wants, and desires from cradle to grave.

    **There are certain groups of people, such as the severely disabled working in sheltered workshops, for whom we should subsidize their income and their needs. These are the most vulnerable among us, the ones deserving of cradle to grave safety nets. That's where our economic compassion and our social supports should be focused, IMO.
    Last edited by K_Z; 04-29-2017 at 12:42 PM.

  13. #13
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    We also need to be reminded that Obamacare lead to many full time jobs being reduced to part time jobs. The people that are creating jobs and taking risks aren't working forty hour work weeks. They are working the equivalent, hourly, of several part time jobs.
    All posts are my opinion only unless otherwise stated.
    Thanks!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats. A raise in the minimum wage usually trickles up into higher wage categories. The growing economy a wage raise creates makes employers compete with each other to pay for the labor of more highly skilled workers. Like any other item, labor has value, too.
    Mandating a $15/hr minimum wage does not "grow the economy" by creating more competition for workers.

    The ONLY thing that "grows the economy" is more jobs. And the only source of more jobs is more businesses, or growing businesses.

    An artificially mandated increase in the minimum wage will only produce rapid inflation, and fewer jobs for fewer hours.

    Labor is a cost, a raw material. Businesses don't produce jobs simply because there is a big pool of unskilled workers they *might* hire.

  15. #15
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    Getting rid of illegal aliens will solve the entire problem.

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