IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

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NEW RULE: IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER YOU MUST GET PERMISSION FIRST. PLEASE SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ANY OF THE MODERATORS. BE PATIENT BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE TIME TO GET BACK WITH YOU



Dear Websleuths Members,

Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

Please take a moment to read our rules
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules


If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

PS. Thank you KayElJay for letting me post in your opening post.


MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

Missing%20Girls_1487042903108_55088620_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.



Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.


Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

Pictures of Abby and Libby
Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

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*Media Maps & Timelines*
IMAGE Discussion Thread
Scanner Thread
Rules Etiquette & Information


Case map by skibaboo updated with the latest grayhuze crime flow video
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at
(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to
Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

SGT. KIM RILEY, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone) with CNN re: three posts in the image on the bridge

RILEY: We have looked at it. We`ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture -- we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there`s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you`ll notice that there`s actually three poles there to keep cars from being -- trying to drive across the bridge. So that`s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks.

Teen used cell phone to capture chilling audio of her killer: Police
 
ADMIN NOTE: Do NOT post photos of random individuals in a side by side fashion to compare with unidentified suspect. You may be sleuthing someone ten ways to Sunday but do NOT post about it here. Until there is a named suspect to sleuth it is against TOS.

[ETA = in light of the recent search warrant executed at the property and residence of RL the decision has been made to allow limited sleuthing of RL. You may sleuth what is public record, including past criminal or legal history. You may discuss whether or not you feel his voice or appearance match the evidence shared by LE. You may NOT sleuth his family members, friends, acquaintances, etc. Please keep it on the rails.]

If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

Posts that are outside the rules are subject to removal without warning or explanation. Members who continue to post against the rules are subject to a loss of posting privileges.

Please continue discussing while being mindful of the rules which can always be found linked in my signature.
 
ADMIN NOTE: Because so many members were brand new, we, the owner and staff, have been very patient with you. We thought you deserved some time to learn the ropes. Well, you've had almost two weeks to figure out how we roll here. If you haven't bothered to read the Rules, especially Etiquette and Information, then shame on ya.

Going forward, we will issue Time Outs of 24 hours or longer. No excuses, no questions asked. Consider this a fair warning.

Bessie
WS ADMINISTRATOR
 
ATTENTION EVERYONE:

With the latest search warrant being served at the home of property owner Ron Logan we have decided to open up Ron Logan to sleuthing with these rules:

*Use his initials only (R.L.) or call him the land owner.

*This does not mean you can sleuth his family or neighbors.

*In the event you do discover something about someone else who happens to be connected to R.L. and you think
it is related to the case you must check with us before you post it.

* R.L HAS NOT BEEN NAMED A PERSON OF INTEREST. Please do not accuse him of the crime.

If you have any questions alert on any post and send us your question. Or you can send a private message to one of the mods.

To reiterate, You can now sleuth the land owner R.L. but ONLY R.L. No accusing R.L. or anyone of being the killer.

Thank you,
Tricia






This just in from Alexis McAdams:

BREAKING: ISP,FBI & Carrol Co. Sheriffs served search warrant at home of Ron Logan- owner of the property where the girls bodies were found

[video=twitter;842769551901282304]https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/842769551901282304[/video]
 
Well, it remains unclear to me. I can see no difference between what we're allowed to do, even though LE has repeatedly said RL is not a suspect in the murders, and what we would be allowed to do if, in fact, LE had said RL is a suspect in the murders. In both cases, we'd have to say we don't know for sure and, therefore, it'd only be an opinion. I guess I have a hard time seeing any real limits to the sleuthing. Does that make sense? :eek:


Let me try and clear this up for you.


Always remember hardly anything on Websleuths is Black and White. Websleuths has lots of gray areas.


Rarely do police ever say someone is a suspect unless it is obvious like Bridge Guy.


What we have to do in certain cases is use our common sense.


Why did the police get a search warrant for RL the land owner where Abby and Libby's bodies were found?


Why did the police violate his parole? If someone could find a link verifying this. I will retract if I am incorrect.


Why was RL given over three years in prison for driving convictions?

Didn't the police say he was not cooperating? You have to wonder if there is a deal to be made with RL if he cooperates.


Is there anyone else the police are looking into that has anything close to the connection to the case like RL other than BG?


To get a search warrant for his house police needed probable cause.


As the owner of Websleuths, it is up to me to make these decisions about who can be discussed and who can't. I do so by following the Websleuths guidelines along with discussing among the mods and using common sense.


Here is another good example. The murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.


Her husband Mark wasn't ever pointed out as a suspect until shortly before he was arrested. However, his behavior made it obvious he was hiding something. This is why early on Websleuths allowed Mark Sievers to be discussed as a suspect. Same with his friend Wayne.


We take each case on its merits.


In this case, because the police had probable cause for a search warrant members can sleuth RL ONLY. Not his family, not his friends. Also, we have stated over and over no one is saying he is guilty. If someone calls him a murderer please alert and we will remove.


So when a member feels like a guy that used to date Abby or Libby's mom kind of looks like BG and wants to sleuth him we say absolutely not.


RL owned the land the bodies were found on. We did not allow sleuthing him at this point at all. It was only when the police served the search warrant did we allow members to sleuth.


Police have said he is not a suspect. They said this before, during, and after the search warrant of RL's home.


You have to use common sense and go by what police have done in the past to make these decisions.


One more thing, we only allow the initials of RL. Why? So when someone Googles his name Websleuths won't come up.


However, you go to all the other sites on the Internet, and they are tearing RL apart, using his real name and sleuthing God knows what about his past.


At Websleuths we do our best to balance between letting you discuss and being sensitive to people's situations.


You will not find any other forum on the Internet that works harder than we do to be as fair as possible.


Remember, if it too much for you and you feel it's wrong no one is forcing you to stay.


Thank you,
Tricia
 
He's taller because I resized the photo when I worked on it, and didn't get it back down to the exact size when I was done. Part of the "skinnier" is from removing the 'aura' around him (from movement). I think I may have accidentally taken a bit of his right elbow, but I didn't slim him down. I think most of the difference is just perception, but I've been wrong before.

MOO

Thanks for clearifying, I think some of the things people are seeing maybe do to resizing. It can bee tricky to resize and keep proportioning the same. Appreciate all your efforts....:cheers:

Admin Note

Jumping off of these posts -
I meant to come back and post last night after closing the thread but I fell asleep. :blushing:

Over the weekend I asked Tricia specifically about the photos that have been enhanced, altered to remove the background, zoomed in for focus, etc.... She advised that the photos posted are fine for sleuthing purposes. (Nothing new. This has been permitted in many threads.) Here's the deal - it's all about perception. Give each photo as much weight as you see fit, disregard the ones you doubt the depict differently than intended. What is not permitted is an ongoing back & forth, particularly insinuating the people working on the photos have intentionally altered the images to mislead others. Either you find them helpful, or you don't. If you don't, disregard and scroll and roll on past. It's that simple.

Also, any mention of posters who are on time out is strictly prohibited. I easily could have TO'd a few people last night but chose not to because for the most part, this thread was very pleasant and civil until late afternoon. We are very grateful for the civility and change in tone. :) However, be advised any further references to those posters not currently here will result in a loss a posting privileges for the those choosing to violate that rule.

*please bump as needed*
 
Anyone know of any farm type auctions near Delphi/Lafayette between February 10-13??? I'm not able to go back on any public auction calendars to previous months...

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The plastic bag or the rope people believe is what's around BGs neck I do now think it's a neck scarf of a skull face. My buddy has one and wears while riding his Harley on cool, windy nights. He bought it at a Harley Davidson shop. He's had that for 5 or more years now. You can wear it different ways. Around your face under the eyes all the way around your face. Or lower. He's worn it as a do- rag also.
I read up on all thread I missed. Awesome sleuthing folks! Today be the day!

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Good morning. Prayers for today to be THE day. What's happened to these 2 girls has went unanswered for far too long. It's time for justice.

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Anyone know of any farm type auctions near Delphi/Lafayette between February 10-13??? I'm not able to go back on any public auction calendars to previous months...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I was trying to search too but didn't have any luck - also couldn't go back to previous months on a couple of those sites.
 
I was trying to search too but didn't have any luck - also couldn't go back to previous months on a couple of those sites.
I searched as well, but it was more or less a vague internet auction that i acme upon, not much else if i find ill help and link it to y'all.
Anyone know of any farm type auctions near Delphi/Lafayette between February 10-13??? I'm not able to go back on any public auction calendars to previous months...

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Thank you for the separate image discussion thread. To those who suggested I scroll past...that's what I've been doing, for weeks. But I don't have a lot of time to read here, and when I do, it's frustrating to have to scroll through pages of image discussion to try to find non-Image related posts. I end up giving up and not reading the thread at all sometimes.
 
For reference, I'm just posting a collection of several videos and pics of crime scene area:

Reference Videos and Pictures of Crime Scene Area:

Thanks so much, cloudajo. ( not good at snipping for space, hoping I didn't fluff it up sorry if i did)

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This is a snippet from an interview with Libby's other grandfather that describes the conflicting emotions on the day the girls went missing. He also lives near Delphi. Anyone here who's a parent knows how normal it is to attempt to rationalize what might be going on when teens aren't where they're supposed to be. It's absolutely a worse nightmare if the reason they're late is because they're no longer alive.

"He said that he and his wife had a call from family in Delphi on Monday afternoon, alerting them to the fact that the girls had gone missing.

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

'You don't know – a 14-year-old girl, she could have had an argument. Things like that go through your mind.

'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

'And then they'll get tired and come back tomorrow morning or they'll call. Something like that.'

However, Bridge said that his granddaughter was conscientious and he didn't believe that she would have simply lost track of time.

'If Libby said she was going to be back at three-thirty, she would have done that,' he said.

'Unless there was a scenario – and the other said, "Ok, I'm your best friend, I'm going to go with you."

'That's what you hope for. That's what I hoped for.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html#ixzz4feIxBbHK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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As far as we know from what has been released by a collaborated effort from the local and state police, with guidance from the FBI, the picture of the guy on the bridge is the only suspect. That would lead me to think the voice capture released by this collaborative effort is likely that of the only suspect identified. While no one has come forward to identify him, I would say it it likely the image and voice are the one, lone suspect. I am stymied with the reward so high, no one has come forward to name him successfully.

Why could that be? Is he so off the radar that no one knows him? Is he so technically ignorant to not know what a cell phone with these capabilities could do?

Trying to put it all together and understand why he would not see the importance of a teen girl's phone and what evidence it could provide versus how he has not been identified. All I can think tonight is he must be completely off the grid.

It is very unusual that no one has put the suspect's name forward with enough information that the police can attach a name to the face. I think the man is dressed differently than he normally dresses, and his is voice is probably altered to some degree as well because of the intensity of the situation. He might be surrounded by friends who joke about how much he looks like the suspect.

Regarding the phone, I've thought that Libby left clues during the abduction starting with the photo/video, sliding down the hill, leaving footprints where possible, and it's possible that she tossed her phone to prevent the suspect from taking it.
 
The plastic bag or the rope people believe is what's around BGs neck I do now think it's a neck scarf of a skull face. My buddy has one and wears while riding his Harley on cool, windy nights. He bought it at a Harley Davidson shop. He's had that for 5 or more years now. You can wear it different ways. Around your face under the eyes all the way around your face. Or lower. He's worn it as a do- rag also.
I read up on all thread I missed. Awesome sleuthing folks! Today be the day!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk
What's a "do-rag" ?
 
What's a "do-rag" ?

"A do-rag (also spelled variously as a doo-rag, dew-rag, du-rag or durag), is a piece of cloth used to cover the top of one's head, sometimes made of nylon material and having a "skullcap" fit. It may also be referred to as a "wavecap". According to the Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster dictionary, the term derives from 'do as in hairdo.[1][2]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-rag
 
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