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  1. #1
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    IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #56

    NEW RULE: IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER YOU MUST GET PERMISSION FIRST. PLEASE SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ANY OF THE MODERATORS. BE PATIENT BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE TIME TO GET BACK WITH YOU



    Dear Websleuths Members,

    Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

    People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

    They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

    Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

    I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

    You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

    Please take a moment to read our rules
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

    Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

    Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

    Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

    Tricia Griffith
    Owner/Websleuths.com

    PS. Thank you KayElJay for letting me post in your opening post.







    MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trai
    l


    Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.


    Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

    Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

    State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.

    Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls’ bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

    ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

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    *Media Maps & Timelines*

    IMAGE Discussion Thread

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    Case map by skibaboo updated with the latest grayhuze crime flow video
    Last edited by tlcya; 05-02-2017 at 07:36 PM. Reason: add link to prev thread

  2. #2
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    Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

    Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at
    (800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

    Information can also be emailed to
    Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

    Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

    SGT. KIM RILEY, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone) with CNN re: three posts in the image on the bridge

    RILEY: We have looked at it. We`ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture -- we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there`s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you`ll notice that there`s actually three poles there to keep cars from being -- trying to drive across the bridge. So that`s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks.

    Teen used cell phone to capture chilling audio of her killer: Police
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  3. #3
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    ADMIN NOTE: Do NOT post photos of random individuals in a side by side fashion to compare with unidentified suspect. You may be sleuthing someone ten ways to Sunday but do NOT post about it here. Until there is a named suspect to sleuth it is against TOS.

    [ETA = in light of the recent search warrant executed at the property and residence of RL the decision has been made to allow limited sleuthing of RL. You may sleuth what is public record, including past criminal or legal history. You may discuss whether or not you feel his voice or appearance match the evidence shared by LE. You may NOT sleuth his family members, friends, acquaintances, etc. Please keep it on the rails.]

    If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

    Posts that are outside the rules are subject to removal without warning or explanation. Members who continue to post against the rules are subject to a loss of posting privileges.

    Please continue discussing while being mindful of the rules which can always be found linked in my signature.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

    mni wiconi - Lakota for Water is Life.

  4. #4
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    ADMIN NOTE: Because so many members were brand new, we, the owner and staff, have been very patient with you. We thought you deserved some time to learn the ropes. Well, you've had almost two weeks to figure out how we roll here. If you haven't bothered to read the Rules, especially Etiquette and Information, then shame on ya.

    Going forward, we will issue Time Outs of 24 hours or longer. No excuses, no questions asked. Consider this a fair warning.

    Bessie
    WS ADMINISTRATOR
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  5. #5
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    ATTENTION EVERYONE:

    With the latest search warrant being served at the home of property owner Ron Logan we have decided to open up Ron Logan to sleuthing with these rules:

    *Use his initials only (R.L.) or call him the land owner.

    *This does not mean you can sleuth his family or neighbors.

    *In the event you do discover something about someone else who happens to be connected to R.L. and you think
    it is related to the case you must check with us before you post it.

    * R.L HAS NOT BEEN NAMED A PERSON OF INTEREST. Please do not accuse him of the crime.

    If you have any questions alert on any post and send us your question. Or you can send a private message to one of the mods.

    To reiterate, You can now sleuth the land owner R.L. but ONLY R.L. No accusing R.L. or anyone of being the killer.

    Thank you,
    Tricia






    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    This just in from Alexis McAdams:

    BREAKING: ISP,FBI & Carrol Co. Sheriffs served search warrant at home of Ron Logan- owner of the property where the girls bodies were found

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumzero View Post
    Well, it remains unclear to me. I can see no difference between what we're allowed to do, even though LE has repeatedly said RL is not a suspect in the murders, and what we would be allowed to do if, in fact, LE had said RL is a suspect in the murders. In both cases, we'd have to say we don't know for sure and, therefore, it'd only be an opinion. I guess I have a hard time seeing any real limits to the sleuthing. Does that make sense?

    Let me try and clear this up for you.


    Always remember hardly anything on Websleuths is Black and White. Websleuths has lots of gray areas.


    Rarely do police ever say someone is a suspect unless it is obvious like Bridge Guy.


    What we have to do in certain cases is use our common sense.


    Why did the police get a search warrant for RL the land owner where Abby and Libby's bodies were found?


    Why did the police violate his parole? If someone could find a link verifying this. I will retract if I am incorrect.


    Why was RL given over three years in prison for driving convictions?

    Didn't the police say he was not cooperating? You have to wonder if there is a deal to be made with RL if he cooperates.


    Is there anyone else the police are looking into that has anything close to the connection to the case like RL other than BG?


    To get a search warrant for his house police needed probable cause.


    As the owner of Websleuths, it is up to me to make these decisions about who can be discussed and who can't. I do so by following the Websleuths guidelines along with discussing among the mods and using common sense.


    Here is another good example. The murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.


    Her husband Mark wasn't ever pointed out as a suspect until shortly before he was arrested. However, his behavior made it obvious he was hiding something. This is why early on Websleuths allowed Mark Sievers to be discussed as a suspect. Same with his friend Wayne.


    We take each case on its merits.


    In this case, because the police had probable cause for a search warrant members can sleuth RL ONLY. Not his family, not his friends. Also, we have stated over and over no one is saying he is guilty. If someone calls him a murderer please alert and we will remove.


    So when a member feels like a guy that used to date Abby or Libby's mom kind of looks like BG and wants to sleuth him we say absolutely not.


    RL owned the land the bodies were found on. We did not allow sleuthing him at this point at all. It was only when the police served the search warrant did we allow members to sleuth.


    Police have said he is not a suspect. They said this before, during, and after the search warrant of RL's home.


    You have to use common sense and go by what police have done in the past to make these decisions.


    One more thing, we only allow the initials of RL. Why? So when someone Googles his name Websleuths won't come up.


    However, you go to all the other sites on the Internet, and they are tearing RL apart, using his real name and sleuthing God knows what about his past.


    At Websleuths we do our best to balance between letting you discuss and being sensitive to people's situations.


    You will not find any other forum on the Internet that works harder than we do to be as fair as possible.


    Remember, if it too much for you and you feel it's wrong no one is forcing you to stay.


    Thank you,
    Tricia
    Websleuths is TEMPORARILY accepting donations.
    For a more detail explanation of why Websleuths is asking for your help CLICK HERE











  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    He's taller because I resized the photo when I worked on it, and didn't get it back down to the exact size when I was done. Part of the "skinnier" is from removing the 'aura' around him (from movement). I think I may have accidentally taken a bit of his right elbow, but I didn't slim him down. I think most of the difference is just perception, but I've been wrong before.

    MOO
    Quote Originally Posted by ab01 View Post
    Thanks for clearifying, I think some of the things people are seeing maybe do to resizing. It can bee tricky to resize and keep proportioning the same. Appreciate all your efforts....
    Admin Note

    Jumping off of these posts -
    I meant to come back and post last night after closing the thread but I fell asleep.

    Over the weekend I asked Tricia specifically about the photos that have been enhanced, altered to remove the background, zoomed in for focus, etc.... She advised that the photos posted are fine for sleuthing purposes. (Nothing new. This has been permitted in many threads.) Here's the deal - it's all about perception. Give each photo as much weight as you see fit, disregard the ones you doubt the depict differently than intended. What is not permitted is an ongoing back & forth, particularly insinuating the people working on the photos have intentionally altered the images to mislead others. Either you find them helpful, or you don't. If you don't, disregard and scroll and roll on past. It's that simple.

    Also, any mention of posters who are on time out is strictly prohibited. I easily could have TO'd a few people last night but chose not to because for the most part, this thread was very pleasant and civil until late afternoon. We are very grateful for the civility and change in tone. However, be advised any further references to those posters not currently here will result in a loss a posting privileges for the those choosing to violate that rule.

    *please bump as needed*

  8. #8
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    reminder, that you can get into the nitty gritty of the images of BG in the IMAGE THREAD which is linked in the opening post of this thread. It is fine to post images associated with this case here and generally discuss them. For in-depth breakdown of various areas and features of the images, zooms, enhancements and alterations in effort to better discern what clues those images hold - go to the image thread.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Lee View Post
    Has anyone theorized that maybe, just maybe, that BG did not initially follow the girls as it appears in the photos?? Could it be possible that BG was walking towards(facing) them...possibly saying something or gesturing to them (in a suspicious manner possibly) as he passed and then continued walking away from them....until ultimately turning around and following them....prompting Libby to point the camera at him.

    Sent from my Commodore 64


    I think he followed them after they all exited the bridge.

    In fact, it's possible they started walking home because he spooked them and he followed either on foot or in a vehicle. /moo and all of that/

  10. #10
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    Wow. Thread 55. Sad


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    What I see that you describe as rope, seems to me to be flexible tubing that goes to his mouth and even, possibly, to a mouthpiece that is in his mouth.
    If that is true...What do you think it could possibly be?

    Sent from my Commodore 64

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Lee View Post
    If that is true...What do you think it could possibly be?

    Sent from my Commodore 64
    At first I thought something medical but I don't know of anything like that. I haven't mentioned it since I couldn't come up with what it could be.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    What I see that you describe as rope, seems to me to be flexible tubing that goes to his mouth and even, possibly, to a mouthpiece that is in his mouth.
    I know Han. It is startling image to see, those white tube-like structures around the neck of the suspect. As many have pointed out, in one of the pics, it looks like a big, white question mark (which figuratively speaking is what it is). Others (I think) see that white shape as cigarette smoke. Looking at the simplest answer, it may be draw strings from his hoodie or the inside of a white zipper in his coat that were distorted by the small pixelation of the video and the enlarged images taken as photo stills. I would like to know for sure. Thanks always.

  14. #14
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    ADMIN NOTE: Copy pastes of comments from social media, including those made by your fellow members, are not allowed.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J Lee View Post
    Has anyone theorized that maybe, just maybe, that BG did not initially follow the girls as it appears in the photos?? Could it be possible that BG was walking towards(facing) them...possibly saying something or gesturing to them (in a suspicious manner possibly) as he passed and then continued walking away from them....until ultimately turning around and following them....prompting Libby to point the camera at him.

    Sent from my Commodore 64


    I think he followed them after they all exited the bridge.

    In fact, it's possible they started walking home because he spooked them and he followed either on foot or in a vehicle. /moo and all of that/
    I do think it is likely this killer was trailing them. I am not convinced he knew them before that day. That this case keeps going on and on with no arrest, it does make me think the suspect stumbled across them. How that happened is anyone's guess.
    Last edited by Jabarn; 05-02-2017 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Typo

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