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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    Hi, Hannah. Welcome to W/S!

    There is lots of discussion on Travis' cell phone on this thread, but especially on the theories thread. I hope you join us there. Also, in the second episode of the "Unconcluded" podcast, Mrs. Kesse talks about both phones. She says they were both powered off at the same time.

    To date, neither phone has been found.

    Now, a few things here I had never heard--the dirty dish or fork in the sink. I heard a mug in the dish tray. But Jennifer didn't like hot beverages, so I find that interesting.

    I think all the little details matter, too.

    I used to share a similar theory, but the more I learn about this case; the less sure I become. I have myself favoring a morning abduction--just as Jennifer stepped out of her condo unit and turned to lock the door. However, I stand with the information that one of the phones pinged at least once and maybe more, and then both went dead shortly after the pinging, around 10:40 PM, on the evening of the 23rd. So, where that is something I believe, it doesn't fit with the theory I have at present.

    We have to be a little careful at W/S--we can't point too directly at persons who have not been named as a suspect or person of interest.

    I can't resist--I heard he was stopped for speeding that morning. Strange though, it still indicates he was running late. It's certainly an interesting morning to be running so late that your speed exceeded the limits enough that you attracted the attention of law enforcement. (And then were nasty enough with them that you got yourself detained for extra time. I think I heard that.)

    I wonder if anyone asked why; or perhaps this was run of the mill behavior.

    Until recently, I even shared your opinion about the POI receiving pay for parking Jenn's vehicle. However, it was so deliberate. Seemingly so planned. He parked it at high noon. He took time to park perfectly in the spot. He spent 32 seconds maybe gathering a cigarette butt but being bold enough to leave his ashes; pulling the seat forward, wiping everything down. He walked calmly back towards the balcony side of Jenn's condo. He manages to have his face behind the gate posts at every interval the surveillance camera records. He lurks behind a palm tree as he turns to look back at the spot where he parked Jennifer's car.

    I can no longer see all the above as the actions of a random person parking Jenn's car for a little bit of extra cash--no questions asked.

    Basically, I change my thoughts around on my "theory" on almost a daily basis. I don't know that we have all the pieces for something firmer. I keep hoping with enough people sharing their opinions, I'll finally come across the piece I need to make "it" fit.

    We've had some great discussion here lately.
    <modsnip>

    With regards to Travis phone, could Jennifer have placed it into her briefcase to take to work with her the next morning? I have worked with professional women at BCBS who used their briefcase to carry shoes, wallets, phones, iPods, makeup so that they only had the briefcase to carry...Perhaps Jennifer did this as well...

    I have thought that Jennifer disappeared sometime Monday night after talking to Rob because of the phones pinging and her security alarm that supposedly not armed....I think if the security system was working she would have set it on her way out Tuesday morning????

    I have read that there was Chinese take out boxes in Jennifers fridge, now whether that was left from her brother or his friends staying there or if Jennifer had Chinese food delivered or stopped on her way home from work....
    Last edited by Harmony 2; 06-04-2017 at 09:42 PM. Reason: information from unapproved site

  2. #32
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    <modsnip>Ohhh--thanks for this. I had that confused then.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    With regards to Travis phone, could Jennifer have placed it into her briefcase to take to work with her the next morning? I have worked with professional women at BCBS who used their briefcase to carry shoes, wallets, phones, iPods, makeup so that they only had the briefcase to carry...Perhaps Jennifer did this as well...
    I certainly believe this is very plausible; however, suppose there is truth in the "information" that both phones went dead together at 10:40 PM on the evening of the 23rd. It does look pretty certain that the simultaneous or nearly simultaneous going dead event for both phones did happen. Apparently, it's the time of the occurrence that is questionable--according to Mrs. Kesse.

    This makes me think both phones were together somewhere. Maybe both in her briefcase? But I think her purse is missing, too; and I have this feeling that she would want to carry her own phone in her purse.

    Now that I type that out though, I'm thinking maybe she could have had Travis' phone in her briefcase and her own phone in her purse. As both her purse and briefcase are missing, (I think) there is nothing to say that someone couldn't have quickly retrieved Jenn's phone from her purse, did whatever to cause it to go dead; then opened her briefcase and did whatever to cause Travis' phone to go dead. (The person would have had to have known that she had Travis' phone, though.) It could have been Jenn herself, I suppose; but I can't understand why she would turn her own phone off. According to Mr. Kesse and Rob, she often used her phone for safety purposes when she was alone. Also, some people suggest she used it as her morning alarm, plus she usually communicated with Rob in the morning on her way to work.

    I can see her turning Travis' phone off--especially after they talked. (I wish we had a time for that call, but I do assume it would have been before her phone conversation with Rob.) And, she was supposedly ready for bed when she talked to Rob.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    I have thought that Jennifer disappeared sometime Monday night after talking to Rob because of the phones pinging and her security alarm that supposedly not armed....I think if the security system was working she would have set it on her way out Tuesday morning????
    Yes, the security alarm bothers me. I'm sure Jenn would have set it regularly, without fail. Even if she ran out unexpectedly Monday, later evening.

    Interesting, too--if her alarm was set, it should have sounded if her balcony door was accidentally left unlocked, or if someone tried to enter her condo by popping the door lock or something.

    So, there are three ways she could have "disappeared" Monday night. One: She went out on her own for some unknown reason. Now, I consider that her parents say that would never happen. As well, if she went out to try to mail Travis' cell phone, why would she get herself all done up and place his cell phone in her briefcase? If it was me, I would throw on my most comfy clothes, stick my hair in a pony tail, not bother with my contacts, grab Travis' phone, throw it in my purse with my own cell phone, and be off. As well, why would safety conscious Jennifer have not called someone to say she was going out alone and asked them to stay on the line with her while she ran her errand?

    Surely, she would not have been really rushing, so she should have taken time to set her alarm and lock her door.

    Plus, I can't fit in why the appearance of a morning shower. If she disappeared in this way, surely no one would have returned to shower.

    One more thing I'll add in here--if she went out unexpectedly and came across the evil SOB, how would he have known how much gas was in her vehicle so he could gas it up to make it look like it wasn't driven much further than 1.2 miles? I'm willing to concede that he could have gassed it up, or even been prepared with a gasoline can, but it doesn't fit if Jenn's abduction was a random event.

    Two: After she talked to Rob, someone came to her condo, she knew the person, she let the person in. But that makes me think whatever went down, went down in her condo; so, why no signs of violence? How did that condo end up "maid clean". Interestingly enough, Jenn's car could also have been considered "maid clean." Plus, if Jenn knew him it's highly likely someone who knew Jenn also knew him. Why could no one recognize the POI that parked her car--assuming it's one and the same person.

    Three: Similar to above, but this person is a stranger or a casual acquaintance. He somehow gained entrance to her condo, maybe through the balcony. He may have surprised her as she was dozing off to sleep. And here we go--why no signs of struggle; why move Jennifer's car; why move her? Why leave her night clothes on the bathroom floor, but take time to throw a towel over the washer? Why wouldn't the alarm have sounded?

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    I have read that there was Chinese take out boxes in Jennifers fridge, now whether that was left from her brother or his friends staying there or if Jennifer had Chinese food delivered or stopped on her way home from work....
    Absolutely, either of these thoughts could be the one. There is one more, though. What if someone she knew turned up with some Chinese food, piping hot. Maybe an old friend who asked her to remember how many times they had shared Chinese takeout and talked the night away. Maybe she just didn't want to slam the door in his face and send him away.

    But, see #2 above.

    I don't think the morning shower and the evening phone pings/power off events are both correct. One is, and one is not. And still, neither of them work alone. All I can say is that I'm missing something. I keep looking. Maybe the podcast will bring something to light.

    Now I wrote a small novel and have to apologize for the length. Sorry.
    Last edited by Harmony 2; 06-04-2017 at 09:43 PM. Reason: snipped quoted post

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    Ohhh--thanks for this. I had that confused then.

    I certainly believe this is very plausible; however, suppose there is truth in the "information" that both phones went dead together at 10:40 PM on the evening of the 23rd. It does look pretty certain that the simultaneous or nearly simultaneous going dead event for both phones did happen. Apparently, it's the time of the occurrence that is questionable--according to Mrs. Kesse.

    This makes me think both phones were together somewhere. Maybe both in her briefcase? But I think her purse is missing, too; and I have this feeling that she would want to carry her own phone in her purse.

    Now that I type that out though, I'm thinking maybe she could have had Travis' phone in her briefcase and her own phone in her purse. As both her purse and briefcase are missing, (I think) there is nothing to say that someone couldn't have quickly retrieved Jenn's phone from her purse, did whatever to cause it to go dead; then opened her briefcase and did whatever to cause Travis' phone to go dead. (The person would have had to have known that she had Travis' phone, though.) It could have been Jenn herself, I suppose; but I can't understand why she would turn her own phone off. According to Mr. Kesse and Rob, she often used her phone for safety purposes when she was alone. Also, some people suggest she used it as her morning alarm, plus she usually communicated with Rob in the morning on her way to work.

    I can see her turning Travis' phone off--especially after they talked. (I wish we had a time for that call, but I do assume it would have been before her phone conversation with Rob.) And, she was supposedly ready for bed when she talked to Rob.

    Yes, the security alarm bothers me. I'm sure Jenn would have set it regularly, without fail. Even if she ran out unexpectedly Monday, later evening.

    Interesting, too--if her alarm was set, it should have sounded if her balcony door was accidentally left unlocked, or if someone tried to enter her condo by popping the door lock or something.

    So, there are three ways she could have "disappeared" Monday night. One: She went out on her own for some unknown reason. Now, I consider that her parents say that would never happen. As well, if she went out to try to mail Travis' cell phone, why would she get herself all done up and place his cell phone in her briefcase? If it was me, I would throw on my most comfy clothes, stick my hair in a pony tail, not bother with my contacts, grab Travis' phone, throw it in my purse with my own cell phone, and be off. As well, why would safety conscious Jennifer have not called someone to say she was going out alone and asked them to stay on the line with her while she ran her errand?

    Surely, she would not have been really rushing, so she should have taken time to set her alarm and lock her door.

    Plus, I can't fit in why the appearance of a morning shower. If she disappeared in this way, surely no one would have returned to shower.

    One more thing I'll add in here--if she went out unexpectedly and came across the evil SOB, how would he have known how much gas was in her vehicle so he could gas it up to make it look like it wasn't driven much further than 1.2 miles? I'm willing to concede that he could have gassed it up, or even been prepared with a gasoline can, but it doesn't fit if Jenn's abduction was a random event.

    Two: After she talked to Rob, someone came to her condo, she knew the person, she let the person in. But that makes me think whatever went down, went down in her condo; so, why no signs of violence? How did that condo end up "maid clean". Interestingly enough, Jenn's car could also have been considered "maid clean." Plus, if Jenn knew him it's highly likely someone who knew Jenn also knew him. Why could no one recognize the POI that parked her car--assuming it's one and the same person.

    Three: Similar to above, but this person is a stranger or a casual acquaintance. He somehow gained entrance to her condo, maybe through the balcony. He may have surprised her as she was dozing off to sleep. And here we go--why no signs of struggle; why move Jennifer's car; why move her? Why leave her night clothes on the bathroom floor, but take time to throw a towel over the washer? Why wouldn't the alarm have sounded?

    Absolutely, either of these thoughts could be the one. There is one more, though. What if someone she knew turned up with some Chinese food, piping hot. Maybe an old friend who asked her to remember how many times they had shared Chinese takeout and talked the night away. Maybe she just didn't want to slam the door in his face and send him away.

    But, see #2 above.

    I don't think the morning shower and the evening phone pings/power off events are both correct. One is, and one is not. And still, neither of them work alone. All I can say is that I'm missing something. I keep looking. Maybe the podcast will bring something to light.

    Now I wrote a small novel and have to apologize for the length. Sorry.
    Some have speculated that Jennifer had left her briefcase in her car but if this place was as crime ridden as reported , would she intentionally leave her briefcase in the car? Did her briefcase contain something from work that the suspect was interested in ? Or, wanted to keep someone else from work discovering?

    Perhaps she did have her phone and Travis' phone in her purse....I have read that Travis phone's battery was dead or nearly dead.....would a phone with a nearly dead battery still ping? Would the cell phone carrier still be able to tell when Travis phone pinged last or when it was turned off since the battery was nearly dead?

    I wonder if the balcony door had a security mechanism in it? Could it have been left without the security mechanism so that it could be opened at night for fresh air? Could the balcony doors on the second and third floors not have the security mechanism because someone would have to climb up a ladder to access the apartment from the outside? Probably not??? I do believe that she would have set the alarm if she were able to if she left her condo the night before or the morning of the 24th....

    To me, I think it is within the realm of possibility that Jennifer was not the last one to use her shower.....Could the POI seen parking Jennifer's car at the HOTG driven her car there from the Mosaic just up the road after he showered and cleaned up in her condo....People have stated that her car was not seen in her parking space at the Mosaic , could it have been parked elsewhere on the Mosaic property and no one noticed it? From what I gather the Mosaic was a happening place with a few residents and construction workers , delivery people etc coming and going in and out of there...

    The POI may have gone to Jennifer's to stage it if the crime scene was Jennifer's condo....I know, I know , it did not appear to be the crime scene but crime scenes do not always look like crime scenes.....Did the POI leave his sweater there accidentially or to be "snarky"......From what I have read , the owner of the sweater has never been established.....

    To me , if the security alarm was not set when the managers went to make the "wellness check" at Jennifer's condo is a very important clue that something was wrong before Jennifer was to leave for work on Tuesday am....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    <modsnip>

    With regards to Travis phone, could Jennifer have placed it into her briefcase to take to work with her the next morning? I have worked with professional women at BCBS who used their briefcase to carry shoes, wallets, phones, iPods, makeup so that they only had the briefcase to carry...Perhaps Jennifer did this as well...

    I have thought that Jennifer disappeared sometime Monday night after talking to Rob because of the phones pinging and her security alarm that supposedly not armed....I think if the security system was working she would have set it on her way out Tuesday morning????

    I have read that there was Chinese take out boxes in Jennifers fridge, now whether that was left from her brother or his friends staying there or if Jennifer had Chinese food delivered or stopped on her way home from work....
    I'm going to respond to your post marable but also taking into account Truth's response as well.

    I would hope that source of contents of refigerator is not a question. Her brother and friends would know if they left contents in there or not, I would expect not, but that should not be an open question nor sensitive information to withhold. It would be of interest if left from visitor's weekend visit, picked up after work, or Jennifer left in evening and picked it up, if that could be determined.

    I think an alternative scenario is due here. There are too many loose ends not accounted for.

    The first aspect is what all bags and cases that are missing could be expected to have been usually kept in car overnight by Jennifer? I'm going to speculate everything but her purse. I'll be interested to hear if it's less than that. That would also include her missing alligator skin shoes left in her briefcase.

    Is there any reasonable scenario where Jennifer takes her purse containing her phone and the friend's phone out to her car, intending to return and not setting the alarm, and is abducted at her car? Not a few minutes before 8am but a few minutes after 10pm? I think there could be.

    I have never been comfortable with an attack of such proficiency as to locate and disable within same minute both her cell phone and an unexpected (to all but but one or two people) additional cell phone. Let's say given an abduction of Jennifer out at her car with all items missing in the car or what she's carrying, I would expect a more likely scenario is that everything in her car was ditched in water at 10:40 pm. What I don't know is if there is a reasonably deep accessible water to throw her items into that you could drive up to that is also within a couple of miles or so. Anything further would leave a multi-tower ping record of travel direction.

    I would also say that the POI images do not rule out all known associates of Jennifer or possible associates from the Ocoee area.
    Last edited by Harmony 2; 06-04-2017 at 09:43 PM. Reason: snipped quoted post

  5. #35
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    OK, I can see someone taking the purse - money, credit cards, etc. But take the briefcase and not the DVD player? If anything could easily have been pawned or sold that was it. And if so, who would have noticed it missing? Maybe Rob, but the initial assumption might be that she took it and it was in the apartment somewhere.

    Why the briefcase? What could have been in there that someone would want?

    I just finished watching the latest ID Discovery episode on this, "Girl Interrupted" and Joyce Kesse's first impression of the HOTG surveillance video was the person was an adolescent. That is a different viewpoint I had not considered given the height of the POI. That is so new to me I can't imagine a scenario.
    Justice might be blind, but Karma has the vision of a hawk. ~ Connie Fletcher, crime author

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    Some have speculated that Jennifer had left her briefcase in her car but if this place was as crime ridden as reported , would she intentionally leave her briefcase in the car? Did her briefcase contain something from work that the suspect was interested in ? Or, wanted to keep someone else from work discovering?
    This small detail could be important because it could go directly to motive.

    Concerning the contents of the briefcase and where Jenn left it on the 23rd--this can be argued every which way and all viewpoints have equal strength. So, going solely with my own instincts, I would say that Jennifer almost always would have taken both her purse and her briefcase up to her condo unit upon exiting her vehicle when returning from her work day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    Perhaps she did have her phone and Travis' phone in her purse....I have read that Travis phone's battery was dead or nearly dead.....would a phone with a nearly dead battery still ping? Would the cell phone carrier still be able to tell when Travis phone pinged last or when it was turned off since the battery was nearly dead?
    BBM - This is the logical conclusion. However, if Travis was at Jenn's condo for a long weekend stay, would it be possible that he brought the charger for it and left both the phone and it's charger at her condo? Maybe he had plugged it in to charge, and due to finding a plug in an out of the way place, that is how he came to forget it.

    Even though Mrs. Kesse holds firm on a morning abduction, she recognizes that both phones went out at the same time.

    I can't talk myself out of believing that it was at the moment those two phones went out together that Jennifer's ordeal was beginning. That is if, of course, it did happen that way, ruling out the questions you asked above. I don't see it being that firm yet--I don't think we are there yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    I wonder if the balcony door had a security mechanism in it? Could it have been left without the security mechanism so that it could be opened at night for fresh air? Could the balcony doors on the second and third floors not have the security mechanism because someone would have to climb up a ladder to access the apartment from the outside? Probably not??? I do believe that she would have set the alarm if she were able to if she left her condo the night before or the morning of the 24th....
    I wish I knew more about home security. My mother had a system, and that thing was fussy. You had to have all doors and windows closed and locked tightly or it would not let you set it for the night. It would positively drive me crazy.

    I believe Jenn would have set hers--no doubt about it in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    To me, I think it is within the realm of possibility that Jennifer was not the last one to use her shower.....Could the POI seen parking Jennifer's car at the HOTG driven her car there from the Mosaic just up the road after he showered and cleaned up in her condo....
    I have to admit that I think the possibility exists. It's a horrible thought to contemplate, and made worse by the fact that LE didn't even try to gather any evidence from what could have been the very scene of the crime.

    Still though, we have Jenn's missing contacts, her make-up, hair dryer--everything all in it's place. Was anything ever said about a toothbrush?

    A little thing I find odd is the pj things on the bathroom floor, but the towel thrown over the washer. If it was me and I took time to put the towel over the washer, I really feel I would also have grabbed my sleeping wear from the floor and pitched them in the washer or hamper or wherever. If I was really rushing, the towel would have landed and stayed on the floor, too. Just saying--I could see a "staging" discrepancy here.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    People have stated that her car was not seen in her parking space at the Mosaic , could it have been parked elsewhere on the Mosaic property and no one noticed it? From what I gather the Mosaic was a happening place with a few residents and construction workers , delivery people etc coming and going in and out of there...
    I wonder if there is a time given for when Mrs. Kesse was told that Jenn's vehicle was not in her parking space. I believe I heard that it was while Mr. & Mrs. Kesse were driving to Orlando on the 24th. I think with driving times taken into consideration, the high noon parking of Jenn's vehicle on the 24th could easily have taken place before Mrs. Kesse's call.

    Good point about maybe it was parked on the other side or something. I bet no one bothered checking very thoroughly.

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    The POI may have gone to Jennifer's to stage it if the crime scene was Jennifer's condo....I know, I know , it did not appear to be the crime scene but crime scenes do not always look like crime scenes.....Did the POI leave his sweater there accidentially or to be "snarky"......From what I have read , the owner of the sweater has never been established.....
    I always forget to take into account the sweater. Surely, surely LE has that sweater in their possession. Surely it was bagged and tagged and properly sent off to forensics? It sounds like the Chinese food--just passed around to whoever was at Jenn's condo unit. Oh my gosh, you know? Oh my gosh.

    From seeing some of his actions around the disposal of Jennifer's vehicle, I would go with "snarky".

    Quote Originally Posted by marable View Post
    To me , if the security alarm was not set when the managers went to make the "wellness check" at Jennifer's condo is a very important clue that something was wrong before Jennifer was to leave for work on Tuesday am....
    And you are correct. Absolutely correct. So couldn't some sort of records of that thing being turned on or off or disabled or whatever, been available? Did anything on there coincide within a few moments of the cell phones going dead? What about Jennifer's land line phone? I wonder if that remained in working order.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I'm going to respond to your post marable but also taking into account Truth's response as well.

    I would hope that source of contents of refigerator is not a question. Her brother and friends would know if they left contents in there or not, I would expect not, but that should not be an open question nor sensitive information to withhold. It would be of interest if left from visitor's weekend visit, picked up after work, or Jennifer left in evening and picked it up, if that could be determined.
    I hope so, too; however, from what Mr. Kesse said in at least one interview--they didn't really know (or much care) how the Chinese food got into the refrigerator. He seemed to imply that he hadn't given it much thought, and never mentioned that Logan or Travis had offered anything to clarify.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I think an alternative scenario is due here. There are too many loose ends not accounted for.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    The first aspect is what all bags and cases that are missing could be expected to have been usually kept in car overnight by Jennifer? I'm going to speculate everything but her purse. I'll be interested to hear if it's less than that. That would also include her missing alligator skin shoes left in her briefcase.
    I would always bring my purse and briefcase in with me. Automatic--I valued the contents of both.

    In Jenn's case, supposing that is what she usually did, she could have made an exception on the 23rd. Even at 24 years of age, she had had a long day, starting with the early morning drive from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando. She left work a little after 6 PM, called and talked to her father and Logan; maybe stopped for gas and a few groceries for company she was expecting the next evening. (I think I heard that.) Then finally home and had to bring her luggage up, besides all the usual stuff like purse and briefcase. Also her food purchases, if she bought anything. Then there was the DVD player which obviously was left in her vehicle.

    She went on to speak with Travis and her life long girl friend; and possibly Mrs. Kesse. Finally with Rob, ending the call around 10 o'clock ish. She told him she was ready for bed.

    Sometime in between unloading her vehicle and talking on her phone, she did a little unpacking.

    My point is she didn't have a lot of time that evening. It would be easy to justify leaving something in her vehicle that she would not normally leave--if for no other reason than to reduce her trips from car to condo; from condo to car and back and forth; back and forth.

    Also, this time frame indicates everything inside her condo had to have been pretty much like her brother and friends had left it. But was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Is there any reasonable scenario where Jennifer takes her purse containing her phone and the friend's phone out to her car, intending to return and not setting the alarm, and is abducted at her car? Not a few minutes before 8am but a few minutes after 10pm? I think there could be.
    I think the possibility is open, too. One thing about the contacts, once you are used to them, you can plop them in and out quickly without much bother. Some people can see to drive better with them as they give a more natural rounded vision with no blind spots that can't be avoided with glasses. Just mentioning this as it could account for how they came to be missing.

    That still leaves the little problem of the missing three diamond necklace that was mentioned in the first episode of the "Unconcluded" podcast. And the male sweater found in her condo.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I have never been comfortable with an attack of such proficiency as to locate and disable within same minute both her cell phone and an unexpected (to all but but one or two people) additional cell phone. Let's say given an abduction of Jennifer out at her car with all items missing in the car or what she's carrying, I would expect a more likely scenario is that everything in her car was ditched in water at 10:40 pm. What I don't know is if there is a reasonably deep accessible water to throw her items into that you could drive up to that is also within a couple of miles or so. Anything further would leave a multi-tower ping record of travel direction.
    This is excellent, but it does discount the morning shower. If there was a shower at all, it would have had to have been in the evening--after Jenn talked to Rob.

    Travis should be able to offer something to this discussion. What time did they speak and Jenn tell him that he had several messages? How important did he consider his messages? Did he pressure her to go out to mail his phone without meaning any harm, of course? As a young male, he probably was not aware of the danger he could be asking an attractive female to put herself in. Her parents hold that Jennifer would have never agreed to this--but I can see it as a maybe. Really I can.

    Jenn may have tipped the perpetrator off to having the phone or phones in her purse. Maybe she was trying to call for help and when he realized what she was doing he ripped away her purse and pulled both SIM cards. (Before this happened they could have had time to ping once or a few times, if we are believing that.)

    Water, I agree would be a good place to disappear any incriminating items; also a dumpster somewhere along the way; destroying the items in your back yard fire pit and disposing of the ruins in your trash. I see a few good options here. It would depend on how much time he had and where the crime actually occurred, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I would also say that the POI images do not rule out all known associates of Jennifer or possible associates from the Ocoee area.
    I agree that the images do not rule out all known associates, and especially not casual associates. I think, though, that a little weight should be given to the fact that they really are clear enough--even with all the distortion--that a person's instincts might kick in to allow thoughts about how much the image resembles their 2nd cousin, twice removed, or someone like that. (Someone very close to the POI should have serious "instinct" alarms going off upon viewing them).

    But considering the seriousness of this case, maybe they would not call it in. Maybe they think the person they think the images look like could never do something like what is implied.

    Eleven years later, I hope they reconsider.

    I also can't help but thinking that if in all this time the images never resulted in one decent tip, then there is something seriously wrong with the images. Even images rendered by sketch artists result in a ton of tips--why not these images? I don't get it at all.
    Last edited by Truth Prevails; 05-22-2017 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JnRyan View Post
    OK, I can see someone taking the purse - money, credit cards, etc. But take the briefcase and not the DVD player? If anything could easily have been pawned or sold that was it. And if so, who would have noticed it missing? Maybe Rob, but the initial assumption might be that she took it and it was in the apartment somewhere.
    I could accept this if the motivation for the crime began with robbery. At this point, I don't think robbery was the motive. I'm always open to changing my mind, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Why the briefcase? What could have been in there that someone would want?
    Plans in the developmental stage for work? She was very intelligent. Or perhaps they wanted nothing at all--just got their jollys rumaging through her things after they finished with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I just finished watching the latest ID Discovery episode on this, "Girl Interrupted" and Joyce Kesse's first impression of the HOTG surveillance video was the person was an adolescent. That is a different viewpoint I had not considered given the height of the POI. That is so new to me I can't imagine a scenario.
    Personally, I think it speaks more to the blurriness and distortion from the very old camera, than to the truth of the matter.

  9. #39
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    Truth Prevails posted: "I also can't help but thinking that if in all this time the images never resulted in one decent tip, then there is something seriously wrong with the images. Even images rendered by sketch artists result in a ton of tips--why not these images? I don't get it at all."

    Because the only publicity about these images (however little of it there was) was that the person is 5'3" to 5'5" with a hairknot (or whatever).

    There was no publicity about the face I found, no decent publicity about possibility of person being of greater height, although I did run across a news article posted here a few years ago where Orlando Police said they would not rule out the POI was up to about 5'11". I found that very encouraging. I hadn't seen an encouraging statement like that from them in a long time. (And of course I miss a lot too, was glad to see that.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Truth Prevails posted: "I also can't help but thinking that if in all this time the images never resulted in one decent tip, then there is something seriously wrong with the images. Even images rendered by sketch artists result in a ton of tips--why not these images? I don't get it at all."

    Because the only publicity about these images (however little of it there was) was that the person is 5'3" to 5'5" with a hairknot (or whatever).

    There was no publicity about the face I found, no decent publicity about possibility of person being of greater height, although I did run across a news article posted here a few years ago where Orlando Police said they would not rule out the POI was up to about 5'11". I found that very encouraging. I hadn't seen an encouraging statement like that from them in a long time. (And of course I miss a lot too, was glad to see that.)
    The fact that Orlando PD did not release the video until May 2007, over 16 months later, doesn't help the odds of receiving a tip. Memory fades and a potential tipster may not be as sure as to what they remember.

    While a fresh look is being taken on certain 'facts', I believe a recalculation of the POI's height should be performed as well.
    Justice might be blind, but Karma has the vision of a hawk. ~ Connie Fletcher, crime author


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    I could accept this if the motivation for the crime began with robbery. At this point, I don't think robbery was the motive. I'm always open to changing my mind, though.

    Plans in the developmental stage for work? She was very intelligent. Or perhaps they wanted nothing at all--just got their jollys rumaging through her things after they finished with her.

    Personally, I think it speaks more to the blurriness and distortion from the very old camera, than to the truth of the matter.
    If robbery was not a factor, then why take anything other than the phones? Curiosity? Attempt to make it look like a robbery? Of course, getting off on going through her stuff after they were done - that is one cool and confident person (or very dumb) to believe they are someplace where they won't be seen and take that additional time. As far as the video I believe it should be processed again - has science advanced enough to do something else?
    Justice might be blind, but Karma has the vision of a hawk. ~ Connie Fletcher, crime author

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JnRyan View Post
    OK, I can see someone taking the purse - money, credit cards, etc. But take the briefcase and not the DVD player? If anything could easily have been pawned or sold that was it. And if so, who would have noticed it missing? Maybe Rob, but the initial assumption might be that she took it and it was in the apartment somewhere.

    Why the briefcase? What could have been in there that someone would want?

    I just finished watching the latest ID Discovery episode on this, "Girl Interrupted" and Joyce Kesse's first impression of the HOTG surveillance video was the person was an adolescent. That is a different viewpoint I had not considered given the height of the POI. That is so new to me I can't imagine a scenario.
    I believe the missing briefcase points to a coworker more than anything.....Like you say, why the briefcase? Did the briefcase possibly contain something that she was going to present at the meeting she was to attend on Tuesday am? Could this "something" have implicated this person in some sort of wrongdoing at the company that could get him fired?

    Perhaps it is nothing more than her briefcase was in her car if she went somewhere after speaking to Rob and it was kept as a trophy or perhaps it was a valuable briefcase that could have been sold....

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    To me the missing contacts do not point either to an am or pm abduction.....If we consider that she was abducted in the morning she would have put the contacts in before leaving.....If we consider a pm abduction , she had not had the opportunity to take them out....

    I know that she told Rob she was tired and was in bed or getting ready to go to bed but still, she could have changed her mind and gone out....Drew said that she was "blind" without her contacts or glasses ....I believe that I read somewhere that her glasses (that she kept at the bedside while sleeping) were in the bathroom....Had she gotten up that morning with them on and placed them there ? Or, did she unpack them and leave them in the bathroom until she went to bed later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Truth Prevails posted: "I also can't help but thinking that if in all this time the images never resulted in one decent tip, then there is something seriously wrong with the images. Even images rendered by sketch artists result in a ton of tips--why not these images? I don't get it at all."

    Because the only publicity about these images (however little of it there was) was that the person is 5'3" to 5'5" with a hairknot (or whatever).

    There was no publicity about the face I found, no decent publicity about possibility of person being of greater height, although I did run across a news article posted here a few years ago where Orlando Police said they would not rule out the POI was up to about 5'11". I found that very encouraging. I hadn't seen an encouraging statement like that from them in a long time. (And of course I miss a lot too, was glad to see that.)
    Well, I don't think you miss much, but that's just my opinion.

    You know, I'm surprised that there was little publicity. I didn't really realize that. I discovered these forums in about 2008, so by then the video had been released and the case discussion itself seemed to be getting some traffic. I guess I just assumed it was more wide spread.

    Another thing that seems to have made LE believe the POI was on the short side was the driver's seat in Jenn's vehicle--it was pulled ahead of where she kept it set. Instead of at least contemplating the thought that he had plenty of time to pull the seat ahead after parking it, they seemed to become more focused on making him ridiculously short to match the obviously distorted images.

    Never had I heard about the face image that you have brought to light. I always heard that he never turned around--but lo and behold--we have evidence that he did.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JnRyan View Post
    If robbery was not a factor, then why take anything other than the phones? Curiosity? Attempt to make it look like a robbery? Of course, getting off on going through her stuff after they were done - that is one cool and confident person (or very dumb) to believe they are someplace where they won't be seen and take that additional time. As far as the video I believe it should be processed again - has science advanced enough to do something else?
    As my thoughts remain "unsettled" as to how the perpetrator found the opportunity to abduct Jennifer, I think in the comment you are referring to I was contemplating the idea that Jenn went out on her own on the evening of the 23rd.

    Maybe Jenn was close to getting a call for help placed, and he got angry enough to strip the cell phones of their SIM cards and decided he would pitch her purse and briefcase in case she had something else helpful towards an escape in either one. (Here I am assuming her briefcase was in the car because she hadn't taken it up to her condo after arriving home.)

    I know that leaves a big question mark concerning the DVD player strapped in the back seat. Maybe he didn't want to get back there and risk leaving finger prints on the seat belts; or having a loose hair fall out; or something like that. Less to clean and worry about if he never even went back there.

    I believe this guy was cool, confident, and intelligent, plus he wanted to make sure everyone else knew these things about him.

    That's a great idea about getting the video enhanced again with today's technology. Something must have advanced in 11 years. I think photography might be one of those strange fields where limitations due to the original equipment may always exist. It couldn't hurt to try, though.

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