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  1. #1
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    2017.06.02 - California's looming single-payer disaster

    California's looming single-payer disaster

    The Golden State's legislature has plowed ahead with a plan to impose single-payer care. But a new analysis from the state Senate on SB562 shows that the annual costs of such a system would exceed the state's current annual budget — even if federal funding continued at the same pace. "California would have to find an additional $200 billion per year, including in new tax revenues, to create a so-called 'single-payer' system," the Sacramento Bee reported after the publication of a report by the Senate Appropriations committee. Even that estimate assumes the state would retain the existing $200 billion in local, state, and federal funding it currently receives to offset half of a $400 billion total price tag.

    $400 billion a year. That's 223 percent of California's total annual expenditures in an already bloated budget.

    Let's put it another way: California could build four high-speed rail systems between San Francisco and Los Angeles every year for the same amount of money. (Assuming, of course, that the state ever manages to build the one in progress now, which is also being funded in large part by people who live outside of California.)
    http://theweek.com/articles/700800/c...payer-disaster

    The state Senate approved the bill to create the Healthy California system 23-14, despite many lawmakers acknowledging that significant details remain unanswered, including how the state would pay for and provide care for its 39 million-plus residents. A legislative analysis of the bill warned that the $400 billion-a-year cost estimates “are subject to enormous uncertainty.”

    SB562, by Sen. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens (Los Angeles County), now heads to the Assembly, where it’s expected to face tough opposition. A legislative analysis said that about $200 billion could be raised from a new 15 percent payroll tax, which would require a two-thirds vote from both houses. The other $200 billion could come from existing federal, state and local spending on health care. But the federal government would have to approve any changes to Medicaid funds for the program.

    The total cost would surpass the state’s annual budget of $180 billion. Lara said ahead of the vote Thursday that the bill is a work in progress. However, he urged lawmakers to pass the bill to allow him to continue to work on it.
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sin...bly/ar-BBBNFtd

    Go for it, California! Show us how it's done! Vermont and Colorado couldn't make it work, but let's see how CA will do it. After all, California has lots of surplus $$, right? All eyes are on California to show the rest of us how this is going to work. We're all watching.

    But no "bail outs" from the federal government/ other tax payers' money, when this social experiment fails spectacularly. CA should stand alone on this one.


  2. #2
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    The state has largely foregone infrastructure maintenance over the last half-decade, and as a result, California now requires an estimated $64.6 billion in maintenance costs to restore the quality of its infrastructure. Officially, the state’s unfunded public pension and retiree healthcare liabilities total $218.6 billion. Additionally, the state’s outstanding general obligation bonds ($81.1 billion), unissued bonds ($30 billion) and lease revenue bonds ($11.3 billion) total $122.4 billion.

    June 2014

    http://uscommonsense.org/research/un...-wall-of-debt/

    Finally, California borrowed $10 billion from the federal government to fund the state’s unemployment insurance fund. Of that $10 billion, the state currently owes the federal government an outstanding $8.8 billion.

    Wonder if this has been paid.
    It's my opinion if no link provided.


    Misspellings due to fat fingers

    Words matter.

    You don't know what you don't know.

  3. #3
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    What would California's proposed single-payer healthcare system mean for me?

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...htmlstory.html

    Single-payer healthcare could cost $400 billion to implement in California

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/esse...htmlstory.html

    The challenges in setting up a California single-payer system are daunting — but not insurmountable

    http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...526-story.html

    California Democrats wrestle with proposal to replace private health insurance with ‘single-payer’ system

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/2...-payer-system/

    California senate passed the bill Thursday.

  4. #4
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    WE are running out of water, and it is an ever looming crisis.
    We have constant wild fires and then mudslides when we get even a little rain. Another constant crisis situation.

    We have no infra-structure. Our plumbing/water pipe system is constantly breaking underground. Which wastes a lot of valuable water and is costly.

    Our pension system overhead is looming like a lead balloon, threatening to implode.

    The middle class is fleeing the state because of the huge tax increases. WE have a huge entitlement class, and a huge bill to be paid for state aid, emergency aid, welfare, aid to dependent families, etc etc.

    On top of all that, they expect to set up a single payer system?
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  5. #5
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    Yup, katydid-- and when CA sets up their rainbows and unicorns single payer system, paid for with imaginary money from the magic money trees they will plant on the fertile farmland, they will become a destination for many, many "new" residents, who will flock there in large numbers to get the free care.

    And California politicians will "demand" that the federal government "bail them out" when their state budget is utterly crushed by the staggering weight of an unsustainable fantasy.

    Meanwhile, sustainable funding for dams, schools, water, bridges, roads, police and fire, public transportation, and endless social services....will continue to be ignored. And no one's health will be any better than it is today. But hey, "Woo hoo! Single payer!"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    http://theweek.com/articles/700800/c...payer-disaster



    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sin...bly/ar-BBBNFtd

    Go for it, California! Show us how it's done! Vermont and Colorado couldn't make it work, but let's see how CA will do it. After all, California has lots of surplus $$, right? All eyes are on California to show the rest of us how this is going to work. We're all watching.

    But no "bail outs" from the federal government/ other tax payers' money, when this social experiment fails spectacularly. CA should stand alone on this one.

    You may wish to read what the issue was with Vermont,

    And I believe Colorado is going for it again

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    Yup, katydid-- and when CA sets up their rainbows and unicorns single payer system, paid for with imaginary money from the magic money trees they will plant on the fertile farmland, they will become a destination for many, many "new" residents, who will flock there in large numbers to get the free care.

    And California politicians will "demand" that the federal government "bail them out" when their state budget is utterly crushed by the staggering weight of an unsustainable fantasy.

    Meanwhile, sustainable funding for dams, schools, water, bridges, roads, police and fire, public transportation, and endless social services....will continue to be ignored. And no one's health will be any better than it is today. But hey, "Woo hoo! Single payer!"
    So what do you suggest for getting health care for people? Some just don't deserve it and should die?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    WE are running out of water, and it is an ever looming crisis.
    We have constant wild fires and then mudslides when we get even a little rain. Another constant crisis situation.

    We have no infra-structure. Our plumbing/water pipe system is constantly breaking underground. Which wastes a lot of valuable water and is costly.

    Our pension system overhead is looming like a lead balloon, threatening to implode.

    The middle class is fleeing the state because of the huge tax increases. WE have a huge entitlement class, and a huge bill to be paid for state aid, emergency aid, welfare, aid to dependent families, etc etc.

    On top of all that, they expect to set up a single payer system?
    Lack of water and fires and mudslides, oh my!

    And what is tbe reason for all of this?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
    The state has largely foregone infrastructure maintenance over the last half-decade, and as a result, California now requires an estimated $64.6 billion in maintenance costs to restore the quality of its infrastructure. Officially, the state’s unfunded public pension and retiree healthcare liabilities total $218.6 billion. Additionally, the state’s outstanding general obligation bonds ($81.1 billion), unissued bonds ($30 billion) and lease revenue bonds ($11.3 billion) total $122.4 billion.

    June 2014

    http://uscommonsense.org/research/un...-wall-of-debt/

    Finally, California borrowed $10 billion from the federal government to fund the state’s unemployment insurance fund. Of that $10 billion, the state currently owes the federal government an outstanding $8.8 billion.

    Wonder if this has been paid.
    And how are all those proposition votes working out ?

  10. #10
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    I don't think it will work either. The whole basis on which universal health care rests, is 'one in, all in', without that, health care providers can charge as much as they like or refuse service, although Ca's population may make it worthwhile for them to stick with the scheduled charges. I don't know, though.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    Lack of water and fires and mudslides, oh my!

    And what is tbe reason for all of this?
    Much of California is a desert. There was never enough water to support the amount of population that settled here. The Water Wars have been going on for many decades.

    wiki:

    As Los Angeles grew in the late 19th century, it started to outgrow its water supply. Fred Eaton, mayor of Los Angeles, realized that water could flow from Owens Valley to Los Angeles via an aqueduct. The aqueduct construction was overseen by William Mulholland and was finished in 1913. The water rights were acquired through political fighting and, as described by one author, "chicanery, subterfuge ... and a strategy of lies."[1]:62

    Since 1913, the Owens River had been diverted to Los Angeles, causing the ruin of the valley's economy. By the 1920s, so much water was diverted from the Owens Valley that agriculture became difficult. This led to the farmers trying to destroy the aqueduct in 1924. Los Angeles prevailed and kept the water flowing. By 1926, Owens Lake at the bottom of Owens Valley was completely dry due to water diversion.

    The water needs of Los Angeles kept growing. In 1941, Los Angeles diverted water that previously fed Mono Lake, north of Owens Valley, into the aqueduct. Mono Lake's ecosystem for migrating birds was threatened by dropping water levels. Between 1979 and 1994, David Gaines and the Mono Lake Committee engaged in litigation with Los Angeles. The litigation forced Los Angeles to stop diverting water from around Mono Lake, which has started to rise back to a level that can support its ecosystem.

    In 1970, LADWP completed a second aqueduct.[6]:539 In 1972, the agency began to divert more surface water and pumped groundwater at the rate of several hundred thousand acre-feet a year (several cubic metres per second). Owens Valley springs and seeps dried and disappeared, and groundwater-dependent vegetation began to die.[2][23]

    Because LADWP had never completed an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) addressing the impacts of groundwater pumping, Inyo County sued Los Angeles under the terms of the California Environmental Quality Act.[23] Los Angeles did not stop pumping groundwater, but submitted a short EIR in 1976 and a second one in 1979, both of which were rejected as inadequate by the courts.[24]
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  12. #12
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    How about fires and mudslides?

  13. #13
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    Higher taxes on cars and dining to pay for California health care? Nurses have a proposal

    A report by economists at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, released Wednesday, found that overall health care spending in California would fall 18 percent under the proposal from state Sens. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, and Toni Atkins, D-San Diego.

    Accounting for savings achieved with their Senate Bill 562, it would cost $331 billion per year to run a universal coverage system in which state government, with taxpayer dollars, pays for medical services and procedures – down from more than $404 billion in spending under today’s system, according to the economic analysis. It was paid for by the California Nurses Association, the bill’s lead sponsor, which also endorsed Lara in his 2018 run for state insurance commissioner.
    Cost savings would come through reductions in executive salaries and administrative costs for health care billing, as well as unnecessary or inefficient medical services. The state could also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for lower drug prices and restructure reimbursement rates paid to providers – the current fee structure pays based on the quantity and complexity of medical services provided.
    BBM

    The part about savings from "unnecessary" or "inefficient" (whatever that means) has me worried. Who decides what is necessary or not? Is a service "necessary" if the patient is young but not if they are old? What is the age cutoff and who would decide?

    What if a doctor wants to use a treatment that takes longer and costs more because he or she feels the quality of care and outcome for the patient is better than a more "efficient" treatment? I assume the patient will lose out.

    Sounds like rationed heath care to me.


    http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-...153587349.html

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    Yup, katydid-- and when CA sets up their rainbows and unicorns single payer system, paid for with imaginary money from the magic money trees they will plant on the fertile farmland, they will become a destination for many, many "new" residents, who will flock there in large numbers to get the free care.

    And California politicians will "demand" that the federal government "bail them out" when their state budget is utterly crushed by the staggering weight of an unsustainable fantasy.

    Meanwhile, sustainable funding for dams, schools, water, bridges, roads, police and fire, public transportation, and endless social services....will continue to be ignored. And no one's health will be any better than it is today. But hey, "Woo hoo! Single payer!"
    Here's the tax increases that is being proposed to support this ridiculous plan.

    The report proposes a two-fold tax structure: Sales taxes on everything except basic needs – grocery store purchases, housing, utilities – would go up 2.3 percent. Businesses that take in more than $2 million per year would pay an additional 2.3 percent in taxes on gross receipts.
    Increase sales taxes on everyone. Right. Increase taxes on the large company's that have not left yet. Guess what will happen. More citizens and company's will leave and the whole tax base will collapse.

    When things cost more people will use less of them. It's basic economics. It will cause small business to suffer under the higher sales tax which will lead to more unemployment.

    This tax plan will not work.

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-...153587349.html

  15. #15
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    It will be rationed health care, if it is implemented. And rationed at such a severe level that no one is really able right now to imagine that scenario. Proponents of this bill actually believe that dental and eye services/ glasses/ contact lenses (and maybe even Lasik!) will be provided free of charge. There is no limit with what can be "imaginated" and paid for with OTHER PEOPLE's money, lol!

    For 39+ million people, and an uncounted number of illegal aliens. With only a 15% increase on payroll taxes, and a waiver from the feds on using medicaid and medicare "a little differently."

    Rainbows, unicorns, and cupcakes with sprinkles. Beyond fantasy, IMO.

    400 BILLION is the BEGINNING estimate. 180 billion is California's CURRENT operating budget. No problem, right?!

    I'm dumbfounded that any elected official could REALLY think this is "do-able." It's monumentally irresponsible, IMO.

    I almost hate to add this, but the whole idea in California is pretty immature and childish, IMO. It's like the 4th grade population is in charge of the legislature or something. WHERE do they really think this money is really going to come from to fund this?? It's beyond ridiculous. And remember-- once you GIVE free stuff to people, it's mighty hard politically to take it away when the money runs out.

    The whole idea is a cruel joke on the naive citizens of California who actually believe this is possible. Very sad.
    Last edited by K_Z; 06-03-2017 at 12:21 AM.

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