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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie2112 View Post
    I think the answer to this question lies in the DOJ's petition to the court. When you request an en banc hearing, I believe you have to make your claim to one of those two requirements. Since the Wisconsin DOJ prevailed on this motion, their reasoning as to why the hearing was necessary must have been accepted.

    http://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Pe...ng-En-Banc.pdf

    Edited Excerpt:

    "The State respectfully requests rehearing, as well as rehearing en banc,...for two reasons.The panel majority has rewritten the rules for juvenile interrogations, in multiple,“significant” ways, ... The panel majority also “depart[ed]from a string of [this Court’s] habeas decisions involving confessions by juvenileswho were denied relief despite being subjected to far greater pressures than[Brendan] Dassey was.” Dis.121–22 (collecting cases). These inter- and intra-circuitconflicts “involve[ ] question[s] of exceptional importance...Even worse, the majority “br[oke] [this] new ground” in a federal habeas case,plainly “depart[ing] from AEDPA deference.” ..."
    And aside from all that it is a well known fact that juvenile interrogations by LE are more likely to produce false confessions
    (quote)
    “A variety of factors can contribute to a false confession during a police interrogation. Many cases have included a combination of several of these causes. They include: duress, coercion, intoxication, diminished capacity, mental impairment, ignorance of the law, fear of violence, the actual infliction of harm, the threat of a harsh sentence and misunderstanding the situation.” (Innocence, 1992)
    http://historyforensicpsych.umwblogs.org/test-page/
    And in Dassey's case there are some of those factors that led to his coerced confession, and just because the state says that there was nothing wrong with the way Dassey was interrogated doesn't make it okay. Wrongful convictions are overturned on new DNA evidence. In Brendan Dassey's case there is no evidence whatsoever that ties him to involvement in a crime. So there is nothing at all that convicts him, because the confession doesn't match any evidence and on that fact alone he should be released from prison IMO.
    Last edited by Karinna; 08-09-2017 at 12:43 PM.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karinna View Post
    And aside from all that it is a well known fact that juvenile interrogations by LE are more likely to produce false confessions
    (quote)
    “A variety of factors can contribute to a false confession during a police interrogation. Many cases have included a combination of several of these causes. They include: duress, coercion, intoxication, diminished capacity, mental impairment, ignorance of the law, fear of violence, the actual infliction of harm, the threat of a harsh sentence and misunderstanding the situation.” (Innocence, 1992)
    http://historyforensicpsych.umwblogs.org/test-page/
    And in Dassey's case there are some of those factors that led to his coerced confession, and just because the state says that there was nothing wrong with the way Dassey was interrogated doesn't make it okay. Wrongful convictions are overturned on new DNA evidence. In Brendan Dassey's case there is no evidence whatsoever that ties him to involvement in a crime. So there is nothing at all that convicts him, because the confession doesn't match any evidence and on that fact alone he should be released from prison IMO.
    Exactly. I do feel that it is the investigator's responsibility, along with those prosecuting, to make certain a confession has real merit. The goal shouldn't be to simply get someone to confess. The goal should be to get at the truth.

    The truth, not simply a confession, is what every investigator of a criminal case should be in pursuit of. Nothing less.

    If the confession doesn't match the known facts of a case, then why rely on it?
    Last edited by htiff; 08-09-2017 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie2112 View Post
    Exactly. I do feel that it is the investigator's responsibility, along with those prosecuting, to make certain a confession has real merit. The goal shouldn't be to simply get someone to confess. The goal should be to get at the truth.

    The truth, not simply a confession, is what every investigator of a criminal case should be in pursuit of. Nothing less.

    If the confession doesn't match the known facts of a case, then why use it?
    Yes that's my point. Brendan Dassey's confession should of been inadmissable. I don't even know how they could have a trial based on nothing? Most trials i have followed had forensic/DNA evidence to support what was being purported about the crime. I really think the point of ineffective assistance of counsel should have been a factor in his case too, it was as if the defense was supporting the prosecution and didn't really fight for BD's right to a fair trial, IMO. The whole thing was just such a sham.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  4. #154
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    This en banc hearing will produce a decision of the full court, right?

    And that decision does not need to be unanimous, correct?

    (I'm hoping that a few bad apples won't spoil the bunch.)

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by krkrjx View Post
    This en banc hearing will produce a decision of the full court, right?

    And that decision does not need to be unanimous, correct?

    (I'm hoping that a few bad apples won't spoil the bunch.)
    Majority wins. And I think it could be as close as 6 to 5, if it ends up being an 11 justice panel. So, I believe that even if 5 justices decide against Dassey, if 6 decide for him, he prevails. Of course this could go the other way as well.

    We know which way Hamilton is likely go. I wouldn't be surprised if Posner decides against Dassey. But I don't know anything about the other justices, so we'll see....

  6. #156
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    It looks like we will be able to hear the oral arguments. I wonder if we can hear them real-time or only after the fact.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karinna View Post
    BBM, So do you think if Hamilton had of voted in agreement with the other two judges that they would not have granted an en banc hearing? Or the state would not have requested such a hearing?
    I think the state would have requested it either way. They are not going down without a fight. I said that from the very start and I also said that people from up that way call Illinois people "FIB's". You can guess the first word (which I can't repeat here );Illinois is the second and the third word you can guess too, and I can't repeat that one either...LOL

    This was going to be a knock out drag out fight from the get go. Thing is, KZ isn't your ordinary Illinois lawyer. I'm thinking the state's ship is taking on water and it's only a matter of time before it sinks. But the whole lot and crew are going down with it~~that is~~unless someone sings like a canary to save their . I wonder who will end up in the before it's all over with. I'm guessing someone will sing after too long to save their , but it unfortunately won't save their soul.
    Pedant here, please share your sources. TIA

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie2112 View Post
    Big City Accountant, this is all your fault. (kidding) but now you have me researching the judges of the 7th circuit, and I wonder if the judge to be concerned about regarding Dassey v. Dittman, isn't Justice Posner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Posner

    His opinion on Backpage.com, LLC, v. Dart, 2015, is pretty appalling.

    http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bi...:N:1663542:S:0

    And in 2004 he also took a very strange position on Doe v. White.

    I haven't looked at all his decisions, so these may be flukes, but he doesn't seem all that victim friendly.


    Maybe it's just me, but he seems to have a well grounded knowledge of special education, so I'm not thinking he will be an issue, if he hears the case with an open mind. He wouldn't have this view on education:

    his view that groups of students differ in intellectual ability, and therefore, that it is faulty to impose uniform educational standards on all schools. His view in this regard is undergirded by his view that different races differ in intelligence. (However, Posner says that he thinks it is "highly unlikely" that these differences are rooted in genetics, rather than environment.)

    If he didn't understand special education and Dassey's limitation.

    I'm not too worried about him~~I am about some of the other judges.

    Let's just hope they get this right!! Millions of kids with special needs (millions of kids in general) are counting on them to get this right. I'm counting on them to get it right!!!

    Pedant here, please share your sources. TIA

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie2112 View Post
    It looks like we will be able to hear the oral arguments. I wonder if we can hear them real-time or only after the fact.
    I believe the last oral arguments were broadcast live. There is a lot of interest in this case for a number of reasons. The media was swarming the court house last time. I suspect it will be the same this time around as well.
    Pedant here, please share your sources. TIA

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    I think the state would have requested it either way. They are not going down without a fight. I said that from the very start and I also said that people from up that way call Illinois people "FIB's". You can guess the first word (which I can't repeat here );Illinois is the second and the third word you can guess too, and I can't repeat that one either...LOL

    This was going to be a knock out drag out fight from the get go. Thing is, KZ isn't your ordinary Illinois lawyer. I'm thinking the state's ship is taking on water and it's only a matter of time before it sinks. But the whole lot and crew are going down with it~~that is~~unless someone sings like a canary to save their . I wonder who will end up in the before it's all over with. I'm guessing someone will sing after too long to save their , but it unfortunately won't save their soul.
    BBM, Yes exactly. I have wondered as well for exactly what reason did they haul Brendan in for questioning in the first place? He was a 16 yr. old kid going to high school. Usually there is a reason they question someone in that they consider them a POI, some evidence that ties someone to the crime, or the person was the last to see the victim etc.
    There were in fact other candidates that should of been investigated more thoroughly because of their suspicious behaviour, and not so much BD IMO.
    And all i can think is if they were dead set on nailing Avery for a crime then BD was the collateral damage because he had a target on his back to easily coerce a confession from him because of his age and intellectual disabilities.
    I also agree they have no soul, and couldn't care less about BD only might makes right. They will just because they can, but what goes around comes around too.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
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  11. #161
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    From Kathleen Zellner's twitter account yesterday:

    "The duty of an honorable prosecutor is to make sure the guilty are convicted and the innocent are not."

    #makingamurderer #DoYourJob

    Says it all.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie2112 View Post
    From Kathleen Zellner's twitter account yesterday:

    "The duty of an honorable prosecutor is to make sure the guilty are convicted and the innocent are not."

    #makingamurderer #DoYourJob

    Says it all.
    She has another one up there yesterday too. Since her twitter account is set to private, I won't post it here, but the jest of the message was only 12 prosecutors in 30 years have been suspended from the practice of law.

    So, I was thinking today...hummm...we've heard from a lot of people over the course of the last 2 years, Lenk spoke out, Colburn spoke out, we all know that KK can't keep his mouth shut, and Fassbender spoke out. But who else was there during BD's interrogations and he is under the microscope just as much as Fassbender and yet quiet as a mouse. Hummm, I wonder why????
    Pedant here, please share your sources. TIA

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    She has another one up there yesterday too. Since her twitter account is set to private, I won't post it here, but the jest of the message was only 12 prosecutors in 30 years have been suspended from the practice of law.

    So, I was thinking today...hummm...we've heard from a lot of people over the course of the last 2 years, Lenk spoke out, Colburn spoke out, we all know that KK can't keep his mouth shut, and Fassbender spoke out. But who else was there during BD's interrogations and he is under the microscope just as much as Fassbender and yet quiet as a mouse. Hummm, I wonder why????
    Hi BCA, are you talking about MW being quiet as a mouse?
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karinna View Post
    Hi BCA, are you talking about MW being quiet as a mouse?
    I haven't heard him speak out at all.
    Pedant here, please share your sources. TIA

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    I haven't heard him speak out at all.
    Maybe he has nothing to say? Probably waiting to see where the chips will fall?
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

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