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  1. #1
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    Four Murdered to Save Family's "Honor"

    I swear I'll never understand this as long as I live:

    MULTAN, Pakistan - Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" a crime that shocked Pakistan.

    The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, confessed to just one regret that he didn't murder the stepsister's alleged lover too.

    Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

    The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more than half of such cases that make it to court, most end with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging.

    Ahmed's killing spree witnessed by his wife Rehmat Bibi as she cradled their 3 month-old baby son happened Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab province.

    It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.


    article at:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051228/...honor_killings

  2. #2
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    Lunatics. It's a good thing I wasn't born in Pakistan. I would have come out with my middle finger up and been smothered at birth.
    Step right up and see the Yakwoman! Only 25 cents a look!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakwoman
    Lunatics. It's a good thing I wasn't born in Pakistan. I would have come out with my middle finger up and been smothered at birth.
    How in the heck was he protecting his honor killing children 8 years on under?? Freaks, I tell you. All they have left is their honor, what kind of family honor will they have now. Maybe he'll get the hanging

  4. #4
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    Rant warning:

    I'd like to take a moment to address all those organizations all over the world who spend their time bashing the United States and its policy of capital punishment.

    HELLO???????? Chit like this is going on in the world, and they're concerned that we house, feed and give free medical and dental care to child murderers for 25 years before we execute them.



    End of rant. Climbing off soapbox.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    Rant warning:

    I'd like to take a moment to address all those organizations all over the world who spend their time bashing the United States and its policy of capital punishment.

    HELLO???????? Chit like this is going on in the world, and they're concerned that we house, feed and give free medical and dental care to child murderers for 25 years before we execute them.



    End of rant. Climbing off soapbox.
    Thanks for stepping down, I was wanting my time to rant! But looks like you covered the subject quite well

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    Rant warning:

    I'd like to take a moment to address all those organizations all over the world who spend their time bashing the United States and its policy of capital punishment.

    HELLO???????? Chit like this is going on in the world, and they're concerned that we house, feed and give free medical and dental care to child murderers for 25 years before we execute them.



    End of rant. Climbing off soapbox.
    What bothers me byond blief is that these prisioners can ACTUALLY have sex chances and hormone pills in prision if they want and someone on state assisted medical help cant even get a root canal done!
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  7. #7
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    I saw this a few days ago and was livid. This is the generational abuse I speak of all the time. This is expected in certain cultures and it promulgates the abuse in future generations. Exceptions are made of course, where their is intelligence.My sister always tells me if she had a penis it would be different.l always tell her you can make a difference. She has actually. But she still harbors the old ways. She is getting better as I work on her all the time. I won't stand here and accept this behavior as right or anything close to being right. If woman don't take the initiative and say I will marry who I want to, I will spend my money the way I want to, etc. and defer to male counterparts who may or may not have their best interests at heart, then we all become victims over and over again.

  8. #8
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    Modern Fundamental Islam is as bad, if not worse, than Christianity during the Dark Ages. I wouldn't rate this as being treated as second class citizens--its more along the line of chattel or livestock.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
    Modern Fundamental Islam is as bad, if not worse, than Christianity during the Dark Ages. I wouldn't rate this as being treated as second class citizens--its more along the line of chattel or livestock.
    I agree. This is the point I have been trying to make for a long time. It does run along generational lines. Whether you are Christian or Islamic. At this point we need to include the disabled, no matter what sex. The purist in these screwed up thinkings have no values but themselves.

  10. #10
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    It's not about the religion (and a lot of these beliefs are more cultural than religious), it's about the belief that men are the only ones that matter, that women and children are property, not human. When you believe that, it's easy to decide to kill your property if it is embarassing to you - like you might put to sleep a cat that starts spraying in the house. And worse, there's these other men who will tell a guy that he's weak, unmasculine (which in this type of culture puts you on the lower level of humanity that women and children occupy) if you can't control everything 'your' women and children do.

    It's a sick culture, unhealthy, unproductive (notice how this culture has to vanish for a society to progress, become more weathy, productive, etc. - all throughout history, this culture doesn't work), primitive. And as with any culture that gives out privileges, those with the extra rights (men) will fight tooth and nail to keep from losing what they have now, will say it is natural, just their heritage, and every excuse possible, with other men having mixed feelings about doing what is necessary and thus also losing their special status in that culture.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Details
    It's not about the religion (and a lot of these beliefs are more cultural than religious), it's about the belief that men are the only ones that matter, that women and children are property, not human. When you believe that, it's easy to decide to kill your property if it is embarassing to you - like you might put to sleep a cat that starts spraying in the house. And worse, there's these other men who will tell a guy that he's weak, unmasculine (which in this type of culture puts you on the lower level of humanity that women and children occupy) if you can't control everything 'your' women and children do.

    It's a sick culture, unhealthy, unproductive (notice how this culture has to vanish for a society to progress, become more weathy, productive, etc. - all throughout history, this culture doesn't work), primitive. And as with any culture that gives out privileges, those with the extra rights (men) will fight tooth and nail to keep from losing what they have now, will say it is natural, just their heritage, and every excuse possible, with other men having mixed feelings about doing what is necessary and thus also losing their special status in that culture.
    It's all borne out of ignorance and isolation.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Details
    It's not about the religion (and a lot of these beliefs are more cultural than religious), it's about the belief that men are the only ones that matter, that women and children are property, not human. When you believe that, it's easy to decide to kill your property if it is embarassing to you - like you might put to sleep a cat that starts spraying in the house. And worse, there's these other men who will tell a guy that he's weak, unmasculine (which in this type of culture puts you on the lower level of humanity that women and children occupy) if you can't control everything 'your' women and children do.

    It's a sick culture, unhealthy, unproductive (notice how this culture has to vanish for a society to progress, become more weathy, productive, etc. - all throughout history, this culture doesn't work), primitive. And as with any culture that gives out privileges, those with the extra rights (men) will fight tooth and nail to keep from losing what they have now, will say it is natural, just their heritage, and every excuse possible, with other men having mixed feelings about doing what is necessary and thus also losing their special status in that culture.
    I couldn't agree more....and just to add this.....how do you argue with these nuts that consider ANYTHING that is done in the name of Islam no matter how horrific.... acceptable to Allah. They can murder thousands with their suicide bombers....then blame the USA for "the suffering of the Palestinian people". Their violence is good and justified....anyone elses is not. Instead of spending all their $$ on guns and bombs...why don't they build hospitals, schools and factories and advance themselves.
    These crazies justify anything in the name of Islam and Allah.....they make Jim Jones and the People's Temple cult look mainstream.

    Look at that nut running Iran now......" the holacaust never happened....wipe Israel off the map"......I hope Israel wipes HIM off the map and soon.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry67
    I couldn't agree more....and just to add this.....how do you argue with these nuts that consider ANYTHING that is done in the name of Islam no matter how horrific.... acceptable to Allah. They can murder thousands with their suicide bombers....then blame the USA for "the suffering of the Palestinian people". Their violence is good and justified....anyone elses is not. Instead of spending all their $$ on guns and bombs...why don't they build hospitals, schools and factories and advance themselves.
    These crazies justify anything in the name of Islam and Allah.....they make Jim Jones and the People's Temple cult look mainstream.

    Look at that nut running Iran now......" the holacaust never happened....wipe Israel off the map"......I hope Israel wipes HIM off the map and soon.

    Which does beg the question why is American supporting Israel? That's what's got the entire Islamic population angry at us.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    Which does beg the question why is American supporting Israel? That's what's got the entire Islamic population angry at us.
    In part its guilt for not stepping in sooner during WWII and the government turning away shiploads of refuge Jews fleeing Hitler's regime. And part of it is tactical, as if provides a staging base and stable ally in the area. And, believe it or not, we actually have a legally binding treaty/contract with Israel, since we were the prime mover behind creating their homeland.But even if Israel disappeared tomorrow, these nutjobs would still be after us, because we foster such concepts as suffrage, equal representation under the law, and other post-Renaissance type thinking. Since Islam and Judiasm emerged from the same well-spring, and share even more of a genetic & cultural heritage/similarity than,say, Judaism & Christianity, its difficult to understand why they can't find common ground.

  15. #15
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    If you look at the ages of the two religions, I think it's interesting that they're in about the same age as Christianity was during the dark ages and the Crusades. I wonder if radicalization is something that all major religions and other movements have to go through, grow out of. We had our witch trials and our attempts to convert the world through force, and we shouldn't forget our mistakes that were at least as great as theirs.

    Extremism is the evil, and it must be fought, without starting a war with all of the moderates - that's the trick.


    Israel is a problem - they're pretty extremist too on their side, and part of the long term problem is not only that we support Israel, but that we often blindly support Israel, even when they are doing things that are very wrong. That is where the moderates feel that we are anti-Islamic, rather than anti-extremist Islamic and anti-terrorist. Israel has done terrorist style actions, and we ignore them. It's guilt over the holocaust, and fear of being labeled anti-semetic, which after the holocaust has become an insult near equal to being called Hitler. And Israel knows this, and uses it (as any nation would use such a powerful tool).

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