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  1. #1
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    WA - Tommy Le, 20, fatally shot by King Co. deputy

    Man killed by King County deputy was carrying a pen, not a knife as initially reported

    A 20-year-old man, fatally shot by a sheriff’s deputy last week after he reportedly stabbed at a Burien homeowner’s door and charged deputies with what was believed to be a knife, was actually carrying a pen, the King County Sheriff’s Office said Friday.

    The sheriff’s office originally reported that Tommy Le had a sharp object and advanced on two deputies around midnight on June 13. However, sheriff’s spokeswoman Sgt. Cindi West said Le was holding a pen.

    West said the department won’t release a photo of the pen. Deputies aren’t equipped with dashboard or body cameras, she said.
    Le’s death was the second deadly police shooting in King County in the past two weeks. Two Seattle police officers shot and killed Charleena Lyles*, 30, on Sunday after they say she threatened them with two knives in her apartment when they responded to an alleged burglary.

    Lyles’ death has sparked community outrage while Le’s death has largely gone unnoticed.
    *Link to the story: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...ctive-custody/
    Silence means security, silence means approval.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    This one's a heartbreaker. He was carrying a pen and was shot and killed because they thought it was a knife. RIP Tommy.
    The truth is rarely pure and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

  4. #4
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    Sheriff will ask FBI to take over investigation of man shot holding pen

    Urquhart also revealed that although both officers deployed their tasers before one of them, Deputy Cesar Molina, fired a gun, only one taser barb was found on Le’s body. Each taser fires two barbs that must attach to the body to complete the circuit. Urquhart said it was unclear if the other barb simply fell off or missed, but said it was only clear that the tasers did not work and the deputy felt he needed to fire.
    Because pen.

  5. #5
    I don't think this shouldn't be investigated, but this thing happened at midnight, ostensibly in a dimly lit area. He was acting erratically and charged officers. Look up Tueller Drill, if you don't think knives are a threat. This likely also happened very quickly - I'd really love to see what those criticizing LE would have done if they experienced this. IMO it's unreasonable for cops to potentially sacrifice themselves if they make assumptions that suspects charging them with weapons aren't a deadly threat. Pens can definitely be weapons and from what is being reported Le was using the pen as a weapon. Sad if Le had mental health or substance abuse issues that resulted in him threatening the home owner/occupant and LE. Now, I guess this is all precluded on LE telling the truth. It disturbs me to no end when video footage does not match LE statements.

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    I don't think this shouldn't be investigated, but this thing happened at midnight, ostensibly in a dimly lit area. He was acting erratically and charged officers. Look up Tueller Drill, if you don't think knives are a threat. This likely also happened very quickly - I'd really love to see what those criticizing LE would have done if they experienced this. IMO it's unreasonable for cops to potentially sacrifice themselves if they make assumptions that suspects charging them with weapons aren't a deadly threat. Pens can definitely be weapons and from what is being reported Le was using the pen as a weapon. Sad if Le had mental health or substance abuse issues that resulted in him threatening the home owner/occupant and LE. Now, I guess this is all precluded on LE telling the truth. It disturbs me to no end when video footage does not match LE statements.

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    Predicated, not precluded

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    I don't think this shouldn't be investigated, but this thing happened at midnight, ostensibly in a dimly lit area. He was acting erratically and charged officers. Look up Tueller Drill, if you don't think knives are a threat. This likely also happened very quickly - I'd really love to see what those criticizing LE would have done if they experienced this. IMO it's unreasonable for cops to potentially sacrifice themselves if they make assumptions that suspects charging them with weapons aren't a deadly threat. Pens can definitely be weapons and from what is being reported Le was using the pen as a weapon. Sad if Le had mental health or substance abuse issues that resulted in him threatening the home owner/occupant and LE. Now, I guess this is all precluded on LE telling the truth. It disturbs me to no end when video footage does not match LE statements.

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    Sure, a pen can be used as a weapon; just like any item, really. But it's not going to be lethal.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DatelineFan View Post
    Sure, a pen can be used as a weapon; just like any item, really. But it's not going to be lethal.

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    I was curious so I googled.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=stab...obile&ie=UTF-8

    IANAL but it seems like this would qualify as GBI and thus justify shooting someone. I don't want a police officer not to go home to his family because he was required to specifically identify the object a person was carrying while charging the officer at midnight in the dark in a split second (and whoops too late or he misjudged and he's dead). From what is being reported, I support the officer and his right to defend himself. Sadly, Le made a horrible decision in charging police with a weapon that resulted in the loss of his life. Again, if the reporting changes....my opinion may as well.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    I was curious so I googled.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=stab...obile&ie=UTF-8

    IANAL but it seems like this would qualify as GBI and thus justify shooting someone. I don't want a police officer not to go home to his family because he was required to specifically identify the object a person was carrying while charging the officer at midnight in the dark in a split second (and whoops too late or he misjudged and he's dead). From what is being reported, I support the officer and his right to defend himself. Sadly, Le made a horrible decision in charging police with a weapon that resulted in the loss of his life. Again, if the reporting changes....my opinion may as well.

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    I want police officers to make it home safely as well. But where do we draw the line? Far too many people are killed by police when they are either unarmed or not posing eminent danger. It has to stop. These people aren't making it home.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DatelineFan View Post
    I want police officers to make it home safely as well. But where do we draw the line? Far too many people are killed by police when they are either unarmed or not posing eminent danger. It has to stop. These people aren't making it home.

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    My previous thoughts on this have been that whether a suspect is armed or unarmed is pretty much irrelevant in determining if the suspect is a threat to an officer. Articles with title "police shoot unarmed person" carries no weight with me as it depends upon the situation (e.g. was the unarmed person fleeing the scene or not otherwise posing a threat).

    I was interested to know about cases where unarmed suspects harmed police, so I did a quick google search. Perhaps this is confirmation bias on my end, but thought this was interesting. Hope it's allowed here since I'd call it an opinion piece although I consider the source legit.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.natio...sometimes-shot

    I'd encourage all adults that interact with young people to advise them to treat police with respect. Do not charge the police. Do not resist. Obey any commands given by police. If a police does wrong, address it through the legal system.

    BTW, for police that do abuse the public's trust and their responsibility and harm suspects who aren't posing a threat, throw the book at them.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    My previous thoughts on this have been that whether a suspect is armed or unarmed is pretty much irrelevant in determining if the suspect is a threat to an officer. Articles with title "police shoot unarmed person" carries no weight with me as it depends upon the situation (e.g. was the unarmed person fleeing the scene or not otherwise posing a threat).

    I was interested to know about cases where unarmed suspects harmed police, so I did a quick google search. Perhaps this is confirmation bias on my end, but thought this was interesting. Hope it's allowed here since I'd call it an opinion piece although I consider the source legit.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.natio...sometimes-shot

    I'd encourage all adults that interact with young people to advise them to treat police with respect. Do not charge the police. Do not resist. Obey any commands given by police. If a police does wrong, address it through the legal system.

    BTW, for police that do abuse the public's trust and their responsibility and harm suspects who aren't posing a threat, throw the book at them.

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    I disagree. I see the article states that police should treat all suspects as armed until they can prove otherwise. I understand that, but I think police can be proactive without killing people for what they might have or do. It seems reckless, and sometimes lazy to me for them to use lethal force before truly assessing the situation. I understand that things happen quickly, but they need to be trained to also respond quickly and safely. I've seen plenty of videos online where people are waving their guns around while police plead with them to put it down. And then you have people who don't even possess a lethal weapon getting shot to death.

    And you said that they should have the book thrown at them when they abuse their power. How can you know who is, and who isn't, when they are just killing people because of what they fear IR think might happen?

    ETA - I'd also encourage people to be respectful towards police. It's also not illegal to be disrespectful.

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DatelineFan View Post
    I disagree. I see the article states that police should treat all suspects as armed until they can prove otherwise. I understand that, but I think police can be proactive without killing people for what they might have or do. It seems reckless, and sometimes lazy to me for them to use lethal force before truly assessing the situation. I understand that things happen quickly, but they need to be trained to also respond quickly and safely. I've seen plenty of videos online where people are waving their guns around while police plead with them to put it down. And then you have people who don't even possess a lethal weapon getting shot to death.

    And you said that they should have the book thrown at them when they abuse their power. How can you know who is, and who isn't, when they are just killing people because of what they fear IR think might happen?

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    It's based on actions. How do you know Le wasn't a threat? Even unarmed people could grab an officer's weapon in a physical confrontation, particularly if the person was under the influence of certain drugs. We only have actions to go by. I strongly disagree that someone charging LE with a weapon is not posing a threat. Either way there are assumptions being made because if the police shoot, we don't know what would have happened if they didn't. I sleep much better at night reading the story of an LE shooting like this vs stories where the cop was either ambused or mistakenly assumed the person wasn't posing a threat and is now dead or injured. I place 100% of the responsibility of Le's death on Le. I honestly do not believe there is any sort of systematic problem with LE killing people who are not posing a threat. Racial profiling seems to happen too often in terms of traffic stops and I would think excessive force in arrests also happens, but I think the frequency of LE shooting those who aren't posing a threat is exceedingly rare. Possibly the MN woman is one of those.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    It's based on actions. How do you know Le wasn't a threat? Even unarmed people could grab an officer's weapon in a physical confrontation, particularly if the person was under the influence of certain drugs. We only have actions to go by. I strongly disagree that someone charging LE with a weapon is not posing a threat. Either way there are assumptions being made because if the police shoot, we don't know what would have happened if they didn't. I sleep much better at night reading the story of an LE shooting like this vs stories where the cop was either ambused or mistakenly assumed the person wasn't posing a threat and is now dead or injured. I place 100% of the responsibility of Le's death on Le. I honestly do not believe there is any sort of systematic problem with LE killing people who are not posing a threat. Racial profiling seems to happen too often in terms of traffic stops and I would think excessive force in arrests also happens, but I think the frequency of LE shooting those who aren't posing a threat is exceedingly rare. Possibly the MN woman is one of those.

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    Wow.

    I don't think it's exceedingly rare at all. And I lose sleep thinking about how poorly trained some law enforcement officers are. Shooting should be the last resort. And frankly, I think it's insulting to cops to imply that they need to kill people before using other skills like physically restraining and de-escalation.

    And I could add to the list, many more than Justine Damond.

    Jordan Edwards
    Philando Castile
    Sam DuBose
    Terrence Crutcher

    I could absolutely continue to list...

    ETA - regarding Le, I really don't believe the officer's life was in danger because of an ink pen.


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  14. #14
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    I didn't see this til now
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    It's based on actions. How do you know Le wasn't a threat? Even unarmed people could grab an officer's weapon in a physical confrontation, particularly if the person was under the influence of certain drugs. We only have actions to go by. I strongly disagree that someone charging LE with a weapon is not posing a threat. Either way there are assumptions being made because if the police shoot, we don't know what would have happened if they didn't. I sleep much better at night reading the story of an LE shooting like this vs stories where the cop was either ambused or mistakenly assumed the person wasn't posing a threat and is now dead or injured. I place 100% of the responsibility of Le's death on Le. I honestly do not believe there is any sort of systematic problem with LE killing people who are not posing a threat. Racial profiling seems to happen too often in terms of traffic stops and I would think excessive force in arrests also happens, but I think the frequency of LE shooting those who aren't posing a threat is exceedingly rare. Possibly the MN woman is one of those.

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    Really? Two heavily armed men were frightened of a small man with a pen? I would not sleep better at night because police killed this young man. It could be you or your sons next.



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