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  1. #16
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow
    Ok, I'm not really up on this case, I found some newspaper articles about an abduction that took place in California, the two girls were told their parents had been in an accident, they said their abductor was of Mexican descent. One of them was raped repeatedly and they were days later released. Has there been any mention of the Lyon's sister's abductor having any sort of accent ???
    They were abducted from a fresno mall. He wanted them to call him Bobby and he said he was a member of the Symbionese Liberation army.

  2. #17
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    Jul 2004
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    [QUOTE=Thrasher]. Meroney has no history of violent crime
    QUOTE]

    Excuse me, but sexual offenses against a 9 year old girl IS a violent crime. And he has other accusations and charges as well.

  3. #18
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    Sla...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow
    They were abducted from a fresno mall. He wanted them to call him Bobby and he said he was a member of the Symbionese Liberation army.
    The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was the name of a gang of self-styled anarchists who robbed banks and kidnapped Patty Hurst back in 1974. They were tracked to Los Angles, where most of them were killed in a shoot-out with police. Patty and other gang members were later captured.

    Most of the SLA gang members were white, with one token black member - a convict named Donald "Field Marshall Cinque" De Freeze. De Freeze had escaped from prison earlier with another black convict named Theron Wheeler (who aparently had nothing to do with the SLA).

    I do not know of any Mexicans name Bobby who were associated with the SLA. It is likely that the lowlife simply made up the story to frighten the girls. The "SLA" was big news at the time, so everyone had heard of it.

  4. #19
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    Nov 2005
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    48
    [QUOTE=southerngirl]
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher
    . Meroney has no history of violent crime
    QUOTE]

    Excuse me, but sexual offenses against a 9 year old girl IS a violent crime. And he has other accusations and charges as well.
    You are excused, but you are mistaken. A sexual offense against anyone, however, despicable, is not necessarily violent, and this can be an important distinction in developing profiles of subjects, in the judicial system, and in the common-sense understanding of the English language.

    But more importantly, Meroney has, apparently, not been convicted of anything - and if that is the case he should not be referred to him as an "offender," violent or not. I was contrasting him to Fred Coffey, who has multiple convictions involving (in some cases by his own admission) murder, child abduction, and sexual assault. It is fine to speculate on Meroney as a suspect, but if all your really have is a resemblance to a 31-year old sketch and a one-time residence in Maryland, I wouldn't give it too much thought.

  5. #20
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    Aug 2005
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    I agree with SouthernGirl 100 %, sexual offense of a 9 yr. old child is a violent crime !

  6. #21
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    Feb 2006
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    109
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher
    It is absurd to think the Annapolis Courthouse extortion attempt involved the Lyons in any way. I indicated previously how improbable it was that this was a kidnapping for money; in any case, no rational person would seek a cash drop in a court building (least of all a known radio personality).
    Great post, Thrasher. Very well articulated. Of course we shouldn't leap to conclusions, but on the other hand, when dealing with an unsolved case, we also shouldn't develop tunnel vision either. The fact that the Tennessee reporter does have some possible history with crimes involving children, has experience interviewing with a microphone (the perfect cover in case anyone asks why he's talking to strange children in a mall), and also has a Maryland connection during the relevant time frame, while not sufficient to make him a suspect, is intriguing.

    One more observation....I'm a big Jon Douglas fan, and in one of his books, he discusses child kidnappings. The ransom demand is probably unrelated to the case because according to Douglas, there are three kinds of people who kidnap kids (not counting family abductions): sexual predators, childless people who can't adopt (and probably have some mental problems), and genuine ransom cases. The first two want nothing to do with the parents of the kids and will never communicate with them, and in the third case, the ransom demands will be very persistent because it's the money they want.

  7. #22
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    Sep 2004
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    TRM was real, but was he involved in the abduction?

    The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was seen at Wheaton Plaza speaking with Sheila and Katherine shortly before their disappearance. How long he was there that day, and how many times he had approached children previously is unknown, although a number of people reported having seen him on previous occasions - at Wheaton Plaza, and at other shopping centers in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties, Maryland.

    TRM disappeared almost the same time that the Lyon sisters did. Nobody ever came forward to state that he had been innocently interviewing people, trying out his new tape recorder, or any other such reasonable explanation. He simply disapeared and never surfaced (as TRM) again.

    The sketch of TRM and the story of him speaking with the girls was the best clue available to police at the time early in the investigation. Later, the police spokesman stated that TRM could have been at the shopping center "for some legitimate purpose", and that he might NOT have been involved in the girls' disappearance. They were basically attempting to get any other clues from the public at the time.

    In my opinion, the girls were abducted by a non-family member from Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 - as opposed to any other scenario (ie ran away, fell in a pond, etc). It is also most likely that TRM was the actual abductor of the girls. Working alone, he determined when they would be departing the mall and what their path home would be (probably during his interview with them). He immediately left the area, got into his vehicle, and waited for them along their route of travel.

    It is, of course, possible that he was working with an accomplice in one way or another. That would be less likely, but still, in such a scenario, he would have been directly involved.

    It is also possible that TRM was simply a weird guy who, through a BIG coincidence, happened to interview these two girls shortly before some completely unrelated unknown person or persons abducted the girls. Seeing news reports of the girls' disappearance, and the sketch of TRM might have scared him into abandoning his "hobby" and into remaining silent about it for many years afterward.

    Of interest is that a person in Prince Georges County, MD (south of and adjacent to Montgomery County) DID contact Montgomery County Police to state that he was the person seen in Landover Mall and Marlow Heights shopping center attempting to induce young girls into speaking into a tape recorder. But he claimed to have never done that in Montgomery County. In fact he had an alabi for the afternoon of 25 March 1975: he said that he had been in an auto accident involving a Federal Government vehicle and was in the hospital that afternoon.

    Questions arise from that story: Was this second TRM photographed? Was his photo shown to any of the witnesses who had claimed to have seen TRM in the Prince Georges County malls or at Wheaton Plaza? Did he show police his tape recorder and tapes? Was he ever re-questioned regarding his activities?

    If corrections were made to the origional TRM sketch based on PG county witnesses - and it was later believed that those people actually saw a second TRM - why was the second TRM sketch not repudiated in favor of the origional?

    Was there really a second TRM, or was this simply another case of somebody trying to get into the act by providing false clues?

    Alternately, could this PG County man have been the actual TRM at Wheaton Plaza as well, but using a convenient alabi of a motor vehicle accident to say that he was nowhere near Wheaton Plaza that day?

  8. #23
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    The "Second" TRM...

    I think that the recent news stories and subsequent debunking of the so called "Confession" of John Mark Karr (Regarding the Jon Benet case) is an example of something police see on a daily basis... someone wanting to "get into the act" by falsely confessing to a well publicised crime.

    I have always felt that this was what the individual was doing when confessing to be the Tape Recorder Man seen at three malls in Prince Georges County, Maryland just prior to the disappearance of Sheila and Kate Lyon from Wheaton Plaza in adjacent Montgomery County.

    It is far more likely that there was only one "real" TRM and that he was practicing his lines and approach at various malls, prior to making his move.

    It might be worth while for police to locate the man who confessed to being TRM Number Two, and to re-interrogate him.

  9. #24
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    Aug 2005
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    Since we can't find the Tape Recorder Man, maybe we should try to find the tape recorder! If the TRM snatched the girls, then he probably recorded whatever horrible things he done to them. He could then in his sick mind relive this event by listening to the tape. If Fred Coffey is indeed the TRM, like I beleive he is, & he pocessed the tape recorder & tape,what became of these items when he was arrested & imprisoned? A calculated guess would be: these items are either with his last wife, last girlfriend, or his mother.

    LE told me they had talked to Coffeys' wives etc. My theory is that they should talk to these people again, with this in mind - If you don't ask the right person, the right question, at the right time, you won't get the right answer.

  10. #25
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    The Right Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
    ... My theory is that they should talk to these people again, with this in mind - If you don't ask the right person, the right question, at the right time, you won't get the right answer.
    Excellent point. And sometimes you have to keep asking the questions again and again of the same people.

    Although I don't want to second guess the investigation (which has been open and continuous since 1975), I often wonder about certain aspects of it and wonder if key witnesses have been re-questioned more recently.

    There are a few primary witnesses (or alleged witnesses) that I would look up and question if I were doing the investigation of both the Lyon Sisters Case and also the Kathy Lynn Beatty Case.

    Lyon Sisters:
    - The boy "Jimmy" who claimed to have seen the girls with TRM would be first on my list of witnesses.
    - The self confessed "TRM number 2" would rate a close second.
    - Each and every person who had claimed to have seen TRM previously at all different locations in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties would be on that list as well.
    - I would also locate and talk with the IBM official who claimed to have seen a man who resembled TRM driving a Tan Ford Station Wagon with what he thought was the Lyon Sisters bound and gagged in back.

    Kathy Lynn Beatty:
    - There were several kids who saw her the evening that she disappeared. Their stories as adults might be different than what they told as young teens.

    The very top of my list of possible suspects for both cases would have to be Mr. Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. - Convicted Pedophile and Child Killer.


  11. #26
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
    Since we can't find the Tape Recorder Man, maybe we should try to find the tape recorder!


    I have wondered if Coffey's house was ever searched for items like that. Because he has been in prison for so long I think their is a possibility that evidence like a tape just might be sitting some place in a box.

  12. #27
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    May 2007
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    central NJ
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    Lyons girls and Richard Steve Goldberg

    I was wondering if the recently caught child predator Richard Steve Goldberg from the FBI's most wanted was ever associated or investigated in the Lyon's case. He was originally from the east coast. Does anyone know?

  13. #28
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    Aug 2005
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    Right Questions...

    When I talked to LE last time, the Detective had a big brief case full of papers, including a large picture of Coffey. We discused the possibility of 'two TRM', & I indicated that I wasn't 'buying into that idea'. After having told LE of my 2 sightings of TRM, I almost expected them to show me a photo of the 'second TRM', but it never happened. I may have been able to give them a definite yes or no, as to whether or not this was the man I saw. It almost appears, LE feels like the 'second TRM' whether fact, or fictional, does not have much bearing on the case. They could be correct, because we have no idea what information they have on TRM, or TRM's, & they don't volunteer much.

    I would love to sit down with other witnesses who also saw TRM, & sort of compare notes. There is such a thing as 'The power of suggestion' which I have tried to avoid in my thoughts, all these years. On the other hand some one could mention something I had forgotten, & I might recall it instantly. It' almost like 'soul searching'.

  14. #29
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    Mar 2006
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    114

    TRM'S Picture

    Jeb, when you saw the large photo of Coffey did you notice if there were any spots on his face like large freckles or liver spots? Also, was this picture black and white or color? Also, from the side view TRM had a long narrow chin that wasn't as noticable from the front view. At least, I didn't pick up on it while looking straight at him coming toward me. His face was flat from the side view also, around the cheek area. It really caught my eye because I've never seen anyone with a flat face like that.

    I've often thought it might be a good idea if LE would run the composite of TRM in the Charlotte newspaper, maybe the Bristol newspaper, too, to see if anyone recognized him from years back as being Fred Howard Coffey, Jr.

  15. #30
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    Aug 2005
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    96

    TRM's Picture

    ShurlT, the picture which Police showed me was in color, & went to the waiste. There were no liver marks or blemishes on his face, on the picture, or on the TRM I saw in person, twice. I asked LE to show me a picture of Coffeys' left profile, but they did not have one. Another thing I remember about TRM, are the heavy lines from his nose going to both sides of his mouth. They still exist in his prison picture, & are deeper now, with age. Coffey is a small man, then & now. Back then, he was able to disguise his appearance, in the type close he wore. I agree with you somewhat, on the fact that Coffeys' chin, and 'nose' were somewhat different. Looking at him on an angle, he reminded me of a duck, for some reason. If by chance Mr Coffey reads this 'Post', he can be as insulted as he wants.

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