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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Tragic events are haunted by characters so strange they seem devilish offshoots -- weirdly compelling doppelgängers -- of the event itself; they may appear so only as a result of their manifesting in tandem with the larger occurrence. I'm guessing that's the case with Tape Recorder Man.
    I just wonder if Lloyd's defence attorneys will bring TRM in to try and create if at all possible reasonable doubt.
    The man in my avatar may have killed two innocent teenagers Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If you know who he is Please call the tip line. There is a reward of $250,000 - Tel- 844.459.5786 or email: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    There is no excuse for human or animal abuse.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregjrichards View Post
    I just wonder if Lloyd's defence attorneys will bring TRM in to try and create if at all possible reasonable doubt.

    If he does not plea, you can bet they will. But witnesses are not talking about TRM visiting the mountain; they are talking about LLW.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregjrichards View Post
    I just wonder if Lloyd's defence attorneys will bring TRM in to try and create if at all possible reasonable doubt.

    If he does not plea, you can bet they will. But witnesses are not talking about TRM visiting the mountain; they are talking about LLW.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    If he does not plea, you can bet they will. But witnesses are not talking about TRM visiting the mountain; they are talking about LLW.
    If the state can prove with DNA that the girls' remains are on the mountain, in my opinion the unknown tape recorder man is not a good alternative for reasonable doubt. If the state can prove with DNA that the girls remains are on the mountains, someone with a connection to Wheaton and the mountain would be a better alternative for reasonable doubt, which is mostly Lloyd's relatives. The state claims to have more evidence on the uncle beyond one of Lloyd's (disputed, retracted) story, but this information has not be made public.

    If the state can NOT prove with DNA that the girls' are on the mountain, than any alternative such as tape-recoder-man or the Manassas VA sighting would help establish doubt in my opinion.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveP120 View Post
    If the state can prove with DNA that the girls' remains are on the mountain, in my opinion the unknown tape recorder man is not a good alternative for reasonable doubt. If the state can prove with DNA that the girls remains are on the mountains, someone with a connection to Wheaton and the mountain would be a better alternative for reasonable doubt, which is mostly Lloyd's relatives. The state claims to have more evidence on the uncle beyond one of Lloyd's (disputed, retracted) story, but this information has not be made public.

    If the state can NOT prove with DNA that the girls' are on the mountain, than any alternative such as tape-recoder-man or the Manassas VA sighting would help establish doubt in my opinion.
    I doubt that there would be murder charges without evidence connecting the Taylor Mountain property to the Lyon Sisters.

  6. #306
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    The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) may or may not have been responsible for or involved in the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters.

    He was reportedly seen talking to or "interviewing" them by two young boys in Wheaton Plaza a short time before their disappearance. A large number of people came forward claiming to have seen him at other malls or shopping centers doing a similar thing with a tape recorder. No one knew who he was but all of the separate reports sounded very similar, and all seemed to think that the composite sketch was pretty close to the man they recalled seeing.

    MCP also had a sketch of another man seen following the girls that day, but chose to NOT release it to the public or news media until November 2013. This was the sketch of a Long Haired Man (LHM) which they now believe was Lloyd Welch, Jr - whom they had been interviewing in prison prior to their 2013 release of the LHM sketch.

    I will not speculate on how the defense attorneys will present their case, but certainly the TRM might be mentioned. And the prosecution will have to have some ready answers in anticipation of that possibility.

    TRM will not just disappear from this case because investigators might want to dismiss him.

    There are many possible explanations for the phantom, TRM:

    - He could have been a harmless old guy who just bought a tape recorder and was trying it out. By coincidence, he looked exactly like a pervert who was frequenting other malls, as well as Wheaton Plaza.

    - He was a pervert who enjoyed talking to young children and girls, but did no harm to any of them.

    - He may have been someone who, acting alone, did abduct children and who was shopping around or on the look out for the right victim or victims. He may have "passed" on the Lyon sisters and some completely different pervert abducted them.

    - He may have interviewed the girls, decided they were the ones he wanted and then waited for them in the parking lot where he, on his own, abducted them.

    - TRM might have been part of a team of abductors. After interviewing the girls and deciding that they were to be the vicitms, he may have left the area and allowed others to follow and abduct them.

    - It is also possible, as some have suggested, that he was not actually at Wheaton Plaza that day, but instead seen interviewing The Lyon sisters or other children on another occasion by the boys who mistakenly thought that it was on 25 March 1975. (three Wheaton Plaza employees told police that they had seen the man on 24 March, the day before the girls went missing).

    Whatever scenario one considers, the preponderance of evidence would suggest that a TRM actually existed, but whether or not he was responsible for or involved in the girls' disappearance remains a mystery.

    Nothing stated or presented in any press conferences by investigators and prosecutors seems to preclude his presence that day and neither does it preclude his involvement in the girls' disappearance.

    It should be noted that the story about the Tape Recorder Man first appeared in newspapers on 1 April 1975, the same time that a $7,000 reward was offered for information. Lloyd Welch first called Montgomery County Police by phone and later that same day went to Wheaton Plaza to try to pass information to a security guard and then to MCP investigators regarding the girls. He claimed at that time to have been at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March and to have seen an unknown man putting the girls in a car. He hoped to claim the reward. Police dismissed him as a liar. Did Lloyd actually see the TRM with the girls? Or was he just making up a story based on what he read of TRM in the paper to claim the reward?
    Last edited by Richard; 12-08-2015 at 12:59 AM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) may or may not have been responsible for or involved in the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters.

    He was reportedly seen talking to or "interviewing" them by two young boys in Wheaton Plaza a short time before their disappearance. A large number of people came forward claiming to have seen him at other malls or shopping centers doing a similar thing with a tape recorder. No one knew who he was but all of the separate reports sounded very similar, and all seemed to think that the composite sketch was pretty close to the man they recalled seeing.

    MCP also had a sketch of another man seen following the girls that day, but chose to NOT release it to the public or news media until November 2013. This was the sketch of a Long Haired Man (LHM) which they now believe was Lloyd Welch, Jr - whom they had been interviewing in prison prior to their 2013 release of the LHM sketch.

    I will not speculate on how the defense attorneys will present their case, but certainly the TRM might be mentioned. And the prosecution will have to have some ready answers in anticipation of that possibility.

    TRM will not just disappear from this case because investigators might want to dismiss him.

    There are many possible explanations for the phantom, TRM:

    - He could have been a harmless old guy who just bought a tape recorder and was trying it out. By coincidence, he looked exactly like a pervert who was frequenting other malls, as well as Wheaton Plaza.

    - He was a pervert who enjoyed talking to young children and girls, but did no harm to any of them.

    - He may have been someone who, acting alone, did abduct children and who was shopping around or on the look out for the right victim or victims. He may have "passed" on the Lyon sisters and some completely different pervert abducted them.

    - He may have interviewed the girls, decided they were the ones he wanted and then waited for them in the parking lot where he, on his own, abducted them.

    - TRM might have been part of a team of abductors. After interviewing the girls and deciding that they were to be the vicitms, he may have left the area and allowed others to follow and abduct them.

    - It is also possible, as some have suggested, that he was not actually at Wheaton Plaza that day, but instead seen interviewing The Lyon sisters or other children on another occasion by the boys who mistakenly thought that it was on 25 March 1975. (three Wheaton Plaza employees told police that they had seen the man on 24 March, the day before the girls went missing).

    Whatever scenario one considers, the preponderance of evidence would suggest that a TRM actually existed, but whether or not he was responsible for or involved in the girls' disappearance remains a mystery.

    Nothing stated or presented in any press conferences by investigators and prosecutors seems to preclude his presence that day and neither does it preclude his involvement in the girls' disappearance.

    It should be noted that the story about the Tape Recorder Man first appeared in newspapers on 1 April 1975, the same time that a $7,000 reward was offered for information. Lloyd Welch first called Montgomery County Police by phone and later that same day went to Wheaton Plaza to try to pass information to a security guard and then to MCP investigators regarding the girls. He claimed at that time to have been at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March and to have seen an unknown man putting the girls in a car. He hoped to claim the reward. Police dismissed him as a liar. Did Lloyd actually see the TRM with the girls? Or was he just making up a story based on what he read of TRM in the paper to claim the reward?


    Here's the thing: Tape Recorder Man is not on trial. Lloyd Lee Welch is. The defense can mention other suspects or possible suspects all they want, but at the end of the day, the evidence connecting Lloyd Lee Welch to the crime is going to make an impression on the jury. The correspondence between himself and his stepmother will be particularly interesting, since it is in writing. Also, there are some witnesses who personally saw some of the events connecting Lloyd to this crime.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    Here's the thing: Tape Recorder Man is not on trial. Lloyd Lee Welch is. The defense can mention other suspects or possible suspects all they want, but at the end of the day, the evidence connecting Lloyd Lee Welch to the crime is going to make an impression on the jury. The correspondence between himself and his stepmother will be particularly interesting, since it is in writing. Also, there are some witnesses who personally saw some of the events connecting Lloyd to this crime.
    What you say is true, but this thread is about TRM regardless of who is currently on trial.

    In regard to Lloyd's trial; if a jury is properly chosen, none will have heard of the Lyon girls, TRM, or Lloyd to begin with - and none will hear of TRM unless one side or the other brings him up. With all the publicity to date, seating such a jury may not be easy.

    I guess that the defense bringing up the TRM might be something done at a later phase of the trial and would depend upon how their earlier motions and pleas were presented and ruled upon - and then how the prosecution might proceed with their case.

    If the prosecutors portray Lloyd as the single perpetrator the defense might suggest other equal or more viable suspects. But if the prosecution portrays Lloyd as only part of a team of abductors, then naming or suggesting other perpetrators might not be to the defense's advantage.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    What you say is true, but this thread is about TRM regardless of who is currently on trial.

    In regard to Lloyd's trial; if a jury is properly chosen, none will have heard of the Lyon girls, TRM, or Lloyd to begin with - and none will hear of TRM unless one side or the other brings him up. With all the publicity to date, seating such a jury may not be easy.

    I guess that the defense bringing up the TRM might be something done at a later phase of the trial and would depend upon how their earlier motions and pleas were presented and ruled upon - and then how the prosecution might proceed with their case.

    If the prosecutors portray Lloyd as the single perpetrator the defense might suggest other equal or more viable suspects. But if the prosecution portrays Lloyd as only part of a team of abductors, then naming or suggesting other perpetrators might not be to the defense's advantage.

    Since prosecutors have not shared their strategy with either of us, we can only speculate. It is, however, quite possible to portray the defendant as an actor unto himself, yet with co-defendants, while not necessarily using an assembled "team". At this late date, "accessories after the fact" are probably expected, and since it IS a crime to fail to come forward with evidence, I can imagine that will play a role, too; but that does not mean that the prosecution has identified a "team". I will personally be very surprised if "tape recorder man" is even mentioned by the defense, as his identity and actual existence have not been verified. The defense is not in court to lodge charges against others, but to defend those who have actually been charged. Tape recorder man has a presence that is akin to myth here, and only a dilettante would ask the jury to consider an urban legend.

    Rest assured that if this case goes to a jury without a plea, a jury WILL be properly chosen. Not having heard of the crime is NOT an aspect of propriety; the whole idea is to seat a jury using no persons who are acquainted with the defendant or the victim(s) and has no fiduciary interest in the crime or the outcome.
    Last edited by siriunsun; 12-08-2015 at 02:24 PM. Reason: clarification

  10. #310
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    ...Tape recorder man has a presence that is akin to myth here, and only a dilettante would ask the jury to consider an urban legend....

    Given the fact that 45 years have passed since TRM was first described by two eyewitnesses, and MCP was never able to locate him, and given all the speculation about TRM, one might tend to see him as a "legend". But he was a very integral part of the case then and now. The boys who saw and described him are now middle aged men and they could concievably be brought in to testify as to what they saw and heard.


  11. #311
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    I find it very bizzar that the sketch would look so much like him, but yet no one recognized him. You would think he would have been local and found fairly quickly if he was spotted in other malls.
    The theory or scenario you have just read is just an opinion or assumption!

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    ...Tape recorder man has a presence that is akin to myth here, and only a dilettante would ask the jury to consider an urban legend....

    Given the fact that 45 years have passed since TRM was first described by two eyewitnesses, and MCP was never able to locate him, and given all the speculation about TRM, one might tend to see him as a "legend". But he was a very integral part of the case then and now. The boys who saw and described him are now middle aged men and they could concievably be brought in to testify as to what they saw and heard.

    Yep. And the girl who initially described Long Haired Man can conceivably be brought in to testify, too.

    I would not call TRM an "integral" part of the case; as he was never identified, arrested, charged, or indicted. Until those things happen, he is, inasmuch as the Court is concerned, urban legend.

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