1210 users online (259 members and 951 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 4 of 21 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 312
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5,077

    Abduction Scenarios possibly involving TRM...

    There have been a number of possible scenarios presented on these threads regarding abduction of the Lyon sisters by the Tape Recorder Man. While some involve more or less intricate planning, all scenarios presented seem credible and feasable.

    The truth may lie somewhere inbetween the theories.

    No one knows exactly how the girls were enticed or forced into a vehicle, but it is most likely that a motor vehicle was used - just as it is most likely that they were abducted, as opposed to any other scenario; such as runaway, falling down a drain, etc.

    TRM was a very calculating individual who probably planned things out fairly well in advance (most of the time). He did things with a purpose, such as dressing in a suit like a teacher or professional, walking and talking with an air of importance, using a taperecorder and microphone.

    But above all, he was cautious. He went out in his TRM costume on several occasions before he abducted anyone. Perhaps he was initially just trying it out to see if he could attract the attention of children without causing any alarm or undue attention from adults, police, etc. Maybe he was practicing/testing his lines or his "routine" like a commedien would do before a performance. Or maybe he was simply casting bait on the waters to see what might come his way eventually.

    The fact that he spoke with the girls for a while and then broke it off to go their separate ways is an indication that he may have been enacting a two (or even three) step plan. The plan might have been to obtain some specific information about the girls, such as were they with parents that day, or when would they be heading home, etc. Or it may simply have been a first meeting to "break the ice" and then at the next meeting, he would not be a stranger, but the "nice guy who interviewed us".

    As has been pointed out before, there was some conflicting testimony as to when the girls were last seen, and by whom. There is probably enough doubt in the sighting at "Drumm and Devon" to say that it is about a 50/50 chance of the girls being abducted at the mall or in their residential area adjacent to it. One thing is certain, they never made it home that afternoon.

    There is probably a degree of Chance involved in the answer as to when and how they were abducted. It could be (as some have theorized) that TRM was very meticulous and obtained their home address during the interview, waiting for them only yards from home. But it is perhaps more likely that by chance the girls walked close to his vehicle while in the parking lot, and TRM seized upon the moment to invite them into his van/car to listen to their interview.

    TRM's caution is further seen in the fact that he "disappeared" at the same time the Lyon sisters did. Although it was not mentioned in public that a Tape Recorder Man even existed until 30 March 1975 - 5 days after the girls disappearance - nobody saw him again. All references to him were of Previous sightings.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,360

    Richard.......

    I think that your idea(But it is perhaps more likely that by chance the girls walked close to his vehicle while in the parking lot, and TRM seized upon the moment to invite them into his van/car to listen to their interview.) is probably what really happened or very close to it. I do have a question for you. Thrasher has said in a previous post that Coffey was known to abduct kids from shopping centers. I asked where and what kids but haven't gotten a response. Do you know of Coffey having done this?

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114

    Trm sitings

    Richard, i beg to differ with the statement trm was never seen again after march 1975. You well know i've put in a lot of information in the archives about my comfrontation with him around the end of june or july 1975 in murphey's.

    There's a big difference between not seeing and not reporting and if any of you think it's not frightful enough to find out you've come face to face with a possible killer and child abductor and not know if that person has followed you home or may know who you are, where you live or what pattern their children take to school and if they could disappear at any time. I really think continuing to call me a liar by some people on this forum is obnoxious. Why would anyone be jealous of what i'm saying or whatever the petty ideas are. I've really become very discouraged with the fact this case is and has been going nowhere that i no longer care whether it gets solved or not and will not be inputting much info from now on unless i come across something more concrete. I've been able to verify coffey has blue eyes like trm had. What have the rest of you done?

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114

    More TRM

    I also proved that Coffey had WHITE HAIR in 1979 and was only 34 years old at that time and that TRM also had white hair. AND...that this left us with the idea that either Coffey was premature white or he possibly bleached his hair. I'll tell you something else that isn't known here yet. Coffey's Vitro photo shows the possibility of curly hair but all of the other photos of him after 1975 show him with straight hair. Can anyone figure that out? I can because as a teenager in the '50's I used to have thick long hair and I bought perm kits from the store periodically and permened my hair at home. It came out very kinky and because we didn't wear our hair with the perm kinky in it back then like they do now I would set it on rollers the night before which created a soft wavy effect when combined out the next day. The TRM I met had pure white hair with deep waves in it. All he had to do to change it later to go to work was step in the shower and all those curls would be washed out but the kink would still be there.

    Also, the two boys that disappeared in NJ. None of you did your home work on that case but wanted to call me to task saying the person seen with the girls in VA at 7:30 AM couldn't have made it to NJ in time to pick the boys up. I had to treat your ideas like little children using military time to indicate the boys were picked up at 4:30 PM, 1640 military time. I let you save face by saying you'd seen two different times. I've only seen one account of this abduction and it says 4:30 PM...that's 4:30 in the afternoon...not anywhere near 7:30 AM in the morning...is it.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114

    More Description

    TRM had a long, narrow face when viewed from the side. Coffey has a long narrow face in some pictures but not in others. This is one reason I've kept this to myself instead of publishing it here. Why is it this man's physical features can change from one thing to another.
    TRM also had spots on his face...freckles or liver spots...or were they drawn??? This is why I didn't want to put this info on the website until I could prove it better and if I could prove it beyond a doubt I would have contacted MCP first. Turns out...Coffey does have spots on his face...from someone at the prison.
    The problems for me about the spots was...1.) I was trying to remember if I'd ever seen anyone who still had their freckles into adulthood. I don't have mine anymore and I don't think my brothers do either but I had to wait until something came along to clear that up. So far nothing has.
    2.) Have you ever seen a rectangular freckle? I don't think I ever have but TRM had 2 in the corner of his left eye lids...problem: one was on top of the other and slightly offset. Didn't look right...so...did he draw it on there or is it actually possible it could have been natural? There was a second one somewhere on his lower right jaw but my focus was almost always on his face from the cheeks, just below the eys up to the top of his hair for most of the amount of time I watched him and also I noticed when his head was turned to his left that for such a very large face and head his chin seemed to be quite long and narrow from just below the cheeks. Remember, I'm 5'3" and this man was somewhat taller than I and my view would have been from slightly under the chin area. Coffey is now 5'9" according to NC Dept of Corrections information...that's 6 inches taller than I. Think short, people.
    Last edited by ShurlT; 01-30-2009 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Correction

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114

    Coffey and Malls

    Coffey was honorably discharged from the Navy, according to Richard's information, September 1974, probably because of the charges of rape brought against him in Virginia Beach where he convinced a fellow navy man's daughter that her parents had been in an accident and he was to take her to the hospital. Instead he took her to the beach where he raped her. That was only 6 months before the Lyon's sisters disappeared in March 1975.

    IF...Coffey is TRM...(please note the word IF) and based on details from some of the other cases in NC...possible motives could run from...his birthday was March 19th, angry because he was discharged when Richard says he was going to reenlist, anger at his father, to whatever else might be going on in his head. I've also learned recently that some people who do these kinds of things...like sociopaths...do not think beyond the intended deed, do not think of the consequences, etc. They just get an idea in their head and they go with it and other people get hurt...somtimes a lot of people get hurt as a result of this kind of cockeyed thinking. Recent case in point...the Caylee Anthony Case.
    I have to step away for a minute.
    Last edited by ShurlT; 01-30-2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: corrections and additions

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114

    Unreliable Eyewitness

    Someone saw that I got transferred over to information about eyewitness' being unreliable. Really!

    IF that were totally true no police department would even be allowed to use eyewitness reports...WOULD THEY? All it takes is for one person to say something like, "Eyewitness reports are unreliable," and everybody jumps on the bandwagon passing if off as Gospel truth.

    Yes, I happen to know for a fact some eyewitness accounts are incorrect for one reason or another. The one I know about is because a woman in my neighborhood had and overweight husband and son while she was very skinny. In an unrealted case...when I told the police the man who knocked on my door was a little on the heavy side she immediately jumped in and said he wasn't, took over the conversation and interposed herself between me and the police in the car. I was so surprised at what she said and did I just stood there until I realized why she said it. I waited quite awhile with the intentions of going to tell the police why she said that after she left but she had no intentions of leaving and was going on and on about it so I finally said to myself the heck with this. I went back into my house and left them to whatever. I later learned she was under pressure from others in the family and probably the doctor because of the men's overweight and that was from her own mouth.

    NOT ALL EYEWITNESS REPORTS ARE UNRELIABLE OR THE POLICE WOULD NOT USE THEM.

    The deal these days is eyewitness reports won't get someone convicted. The case has to be based on many other factors to TRY to guarantee a conviction but as you can see even with that OJ got off even though his, Nicoles and Ron's blood was in his LOCKED vehicle and that's beside the point here.
    As I wrote here sometime previously about the info I got from my granddaughter's father who is a police Sgt near Baltimore: If a person sees a composite...say...on TV and they report it, the next step is a photo awray and after that a lineup identification.

    Now, if people weren't supposed to see the composites or the photos they wouldn't be used...WOULD THEY? They'd go right to the lineup. BTW, composites developed from a case many years ago where there had been several witnesses. The police were at their wits end and brought these people in where they collaborated together on helping an artist makie the composite. A movie was made of this and has appeared on TCM several times. Some people look alike in real life and can be misidentified. What do we do about that? Ooops!

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    Circumstancial Evidence....same thing here. It's said in a tone of voice to make it sound as though it's not IMPORTANT.

    Thank God for COURT TV...now Actual TV or whatever they call it now. How many cases have we seen that were tried and won on circumstancial evidence? None or some?

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    FORENSICS...Coffey's DNA is on file at NC Dept of Corrections. IF...by some stroke of luck...DNA might have been found in the Kathy Beatty case is could have been checked back to Coffey to determine if he was or was not involved in her case. If he was and there was any possibility he could have been extradited to MD...maybe a deal could have been made to see if he were responsible for the disappearance of the Lyon's sisters and what he did with them. Last I heard MD still has the Death Penalty and maybe if the deal was he would not get the Death Penalty if he told what he knew maybe he would confess...IF...he was the one who took them. Not rocket science.

    The only reason I've hung on this idea was because the newspaper article I read that had the COMPOSITE OF TRM...not somebody else...was that it appeared with the Kathy Beatty case and then there was a small bit of information included about the disappearance of the Lyon's sisters. Maybe the police at that time thought there might be a connection with Kathy's case and the Lyon's case and so they added the composite and some information about the TRM.
    Now, my recollection of that composite was that it was bigger than the little composite I've seen online...the man looked exaclty like TRM from a frontal position and had white hair with waves.
    This does not the represent the composite we know of and I wondered at the time where they got this composite from and that probably the guy that attacked Kathy saw it and knew she was still alive and he was long gone. Thirty or more years later I learn I was right...he was gone. I wonder why.
    Anyway, there were two newspapers back then...the Washington Post and the Evening Star (I think it was.) That composite might have appeared in the Evening Star. I'm not physically able to get to a library to look these newspapers up but both should be checked on for verification as to whether I know what I'm talking about. BTW, since there's so much confusion on this website about this detail and that there is a concern in my mind as to whether I actaully saw the wavy hair in the composite or if I just remembered it from the siting. My memory keeps telling me the composite was a little different from the one we have now, the hair was white and wavy. Upper left hand corner of whatever newspaper it appeared in.
    BTW, there was only a couple or a few weeks between the time I came face to face with TRM and when I saw the composite in the newspaper and it was connected with the Kathy Lynn Beatty Case. THAT MEANS MY RECOLLECTIONS OF WHAT I SAW WERE STILL FRESH AND VIVID. If anyone finds this and can verify what I'm saying it would be appreciated. The article would have appeared around the end of July 1975, I'm thinking. My face to face with TRM would have been approximately the end of June or early July sometime.

    I forgot...another newspaper at the time was the Gaithersburg Gazette. Came out once a week on Wednesdays in our neighborhood.
    This was a free newspaper...not a subscription so it just came to the door everyweek. The Evening Star was taken over by the Moonies at some point in time. Not sure if was before 1975, after or about the same time. We did not subscribe to the Star but we had several newspaper routes around the Rockville area for the Washington Post and my husband substituted for the dealer of those routes by picking up the newspapers on the weekend for Sunday delivery. Once in a while we got hold of the Evening Star and I can't recall how that happened. Anyway, I don't know if the composite I saw was in the Post, the Star or the Gazette and I just remember I had let a pretty good pile of newspapers collect on the fireplace hearth and had to search through the whole pile to show the composite to my sister-in-law at the time.
    Last edited by ShurlT; 01-30-2009 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Addition

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    TAPE RECORDER DETAILS
    From: News Reports, Articles and Links on the Lyon Sisters Case
    Websleuths.com
    Interview with "Jimmy"

    1."The man was HOLDING A MICROPHONE IN HIS HAND between the girls, and asking questions.

    2. He had a tan briefcase ON THE GROUND.

    3. It was one of those HARD ONES THAT SAT UP." the boy said,

    4. adding that THE TAPE RECORDER WAS SITTING NEXT TO THE MAN,

    5. OUT OF THE BRIEFCASE.

    6. THE MAN WAS SITTING ON THE LEDGE NEXT TO THE ISLAND OF (illegible word - bushes?) in the middle of the plaza, Jimmy said.


  11. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    HARD BRIEFCASE DESCRIPTION...ALSO KNOWN AS ATTACHE CASES
    (Please note the dimensions below.)

    Fortunately, these can still be found online for purhase though the used today has come to include softer, cheaper materials through the years in some cases and some are designed specifically to hold personal computers, and whatever else present day users may need to carry with them for some reason. Back in those days I think it was mostly business men, salesmen, etc., carried briefcases. Overtime, the value has become more apparent for other people to use to carry files, cell phones, computers, etc. around with them.

    The following is just an example of one I found online today. These came in black, brown and burgundy in the '70's and now can be found in silver but this particular one only has two colors. The dimensions are about the same as they've always been and even when they're advertised...they're set on end:

    Overall Dimensions: 12.5" H x 17.5" W x 3.5" D
    2 file pockets
    2 open pockets
    Duel combination lock
    Made with rich, smooth simultaed leather
    Available in Black and Burgundy

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    Okay! I got it.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    114
    Okay...my post was removed from here and put someplace else.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5,077

    The "disappearance" of TRM

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurlT View Post
    Richard, i beg to differ with the statement trm was never seen again after march 1975. You well know i've put in a lot of information in the archives about my comfrontation with him around the end of june or july 1975 in murphey's.
    .....

    The Tape Recorder Man or TRM was certainly a real person who was seen speaking with Sheila and Kate on that fateful day of 25 March 1975. But I feel that he was more than that. He was a character - a role - played by the abductor of the girls.

    When seen that day - and on several previous occasions - he was well dressed in a suit, carried a briefcase AND had a tape recorder and microphone prominantly displayed. He was seen by numerous eyewitnesses in the act of trying to get young women and children to speak into his microphone.

    Once Sheila and Kate disappeared, TRM and his taperecorder/microphone also disappeared. With the publication of the TRM sketch about 1 April 1975, everyone in the DC Metropolitan area was actively LOOKING FOR a Tape Recorder Man, but nobody saw such a person. The role was "retired". The abductor certainly lived on, but he did not continue his TRM act.

    Do not misunderstand - Hundreds of people reported seeing or knowing men who fit the description and sketch - but no one again saw a guy WITH a tape recorder trying to talk to girls or children. All such reports were of a TRM at various malls BEFORE 25 March 1975.

    The fact that TRM also "disappeared" at the same time as the Lyon sisters tends to prove that he was IN FACT involved in or responsible for their disappearance. Think about it. He was seen at malls on successive days before. If he had nothing to do with the Lyon sisters, wouldn't he simply be back the next day conducting his "interviews"? And if he was truly just an innocent old guy, why didn't he come forward to clear his name and get police on the right track?

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5,077
    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post
    ... Thrasher has said in a previous post that Coffey was known to abduct kids from shopping centers. I asked where and what kids but haven't gotten a response. Do you know of Coffey having done this?
    First, since this particular thread is about TRM, I want to say that Mr. Coffey might or might NOT be TRM. But to answer your question:

    Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. is a convicted child molester who has numerous convictions involving mulitple victims. I do not have all of the particulars, but I do know that it is a matter of public record that he confessed to molesting over a hundred children at the time of his 1986 convictions in North Carolina. It is quite possible that one or more of those cases involved abductions from shopping malls, but I do not know that to be a fact.

    I know of only one specific abduction/molestion case which involved his taking a young girl from the parking lot of a convenience store. That occurred in Virginia Beach, VA sometime in 1974, prior to his discharge from the Navy.

    Mr. Coffey is also a convicted child murderer. He was convicted of the 1979 abduction and murder of 10-year-old Amanda Ray of Charlotte, NC. In committing this crime, he is known to have used a work van. Carpet fibers and dog hairs from that van were found on Amanda's body and linked to him. He was convicted of her murder in 1987 and sentenced to death. In a retrial, he was again convicted and sentenced to death.

    In 1995, a third retrial ended in a conviction of first degree murder, but two of the twelve jurors would not vote for the death penalty and so his sentence was commutted to Life in Prison with immediate elligibility for parole.

    Mr. Coffey is a strong suspect in some other cases of child disappearance and murder as well. It may be some of those cases which Thrasher refers to regarding other Shopping Centers.

Page 4 of 21 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-09-2012, 07:26 PM
  2. Replies: 66
    Last Post: 11-06-2011, 02:11 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-18-2008, 12:31 AM
  4. "Geraldo" Show W/Enhanced Ramsey 911 Tape...
    By Ames in forum JonBenet Ramsey
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 12-01-2008, 09:30 PM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 01-08-2008, 08:11 PM