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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by searchinGirl View Post
    My opinion only, but I think Thomas Martens is going to take credit for the whole thing. He's going to stand proud and say it was justified. Tell his story and let the jury decide. It doesn't sound like the excessive force will be an issue with dropping voluntary manslaughter.
    It certainly seems that way....I wonder how the jury will perceive the fact that Molly has already admitted striking him though? Not sure what you mean about the excessive force?

  2. #77
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    Of any evidence as to MM's mental health or bipolar disease comes into the trial, the jury may wonder just why she cannot or will not take the stand.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by stephanddoody View Post
    Look I'm going to be positive and I believe the prosecution is confident in the evidence that they have . It is what it is we can't do anything about it . I doubt he would risk losing the case if he wasn't confident
    This! In the Prosecution is confident in the 2nd Degree murder charge. No need for a lower charge.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic-lady View Post
    Apparently the ADA didn't have time to explain why the charges were dropped...does this mean they have suddenly uncovered some new damning evidence?
    That was my first thought. They have enough evidence for 2nd Degree. The prosecution has done a good job of keeping their facts and evidence out of news media

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom2catieandtwins View Post
    This! In the Prosecution is confident in the 2nd Degree murder charge. No need for a lower charge.
    Nice to see you again, its been a long time.
    This case just came in, trial finished today
    have a read.. its bizarre to my eyes
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/n...-suck-han.html

    some similarities..
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by kittythehare View Post
    Nice to see you again, its been a long time.
    This case just came in, trial finished today
    have a read.. its bizarre to my eyes
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/n...-suck-han.html

    some similarities..
    Hi, I am waiting for jury selection to conclude and will be attending court for opening statements.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by searchinGirl View Post
    My opinion only, but I think Thomas Martens is going to take credit for the whole thing. He's going to stand proud and say it was justified. Tell his story and let the jury decide. It doesn't sound like the excessive force will be an issue with dropping voluntary manslaughter.
    I think excessive force is still a very big issue. TM and MM are claiming self-defence, whether in respect of 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter. It is the rules of self-defence that say you cannot use excessive force. So, IMO, still very much in play.

    I do completely agree that TM may try to take full blame. The issue with that is MM has already stated in her police interview that she also hit JC with a weapon. So, I would assume, the interviews were recorded either video and audio or just audio and this will be put to the jury so show her involvement.

    All IMO

  8. #83
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    Just considering the article in yesterday's mail (Stephan many thanks for getting that up yesterday). I note that a neighbour (not the one who was with them) suggested that JC, MM and another couple were outside the home. JC and the neighbour having a few beers after doing the lawn and the two women chatting and providing snacks. The children were playing on the green. He suggested this was between 5pm and 9pm.

    So when did the call to the parents occur? Before they went outside? MM collected the children from the sleepover at 11pm (ish) so did the argument or falling out which required her parents to be called occur after 9?

    All IMO

  9. #84
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    I think the sheer force of some of the blows, indicated by the depth of injury discussed here earlier, may be significant. Who looks more capable...an elderly near retirement FBI agent who has long had a desk job...or his tall young athletic daughter with a swimmer's well developed muscular arms?
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmalpage81 View Post
    Just considering the article in yesterday's mail (Stephan many thanks for getting that up yesterday). I note that a neighbour (not the one who was with them) suggested that JC, MM and another couple were outside the home. JC and the neighbour having a few beers after doing the lawn and the two women chatting and providing snacks. The children were playing on the green. He suggested this was between 5pm and 9pm.

    So when did the call to the parents occur? Before they went outside? MM collected the children from the sleepover at 11pm (ish) so did the argument or falling out which required her parents to be called occur after 9?

    All IMO
    I believe they had a 4 hr ride. Do I remember correctly that the parents arrived about 8 or 9pm? Then the call must have come late in the afternoon.

    I'm curious about this call as well. Lots of possible scenarios including the children's "secret" phone. Has it been established who gave the children that phone?
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎


  11. #86
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    Here's another puzzle.

    We are being asked to believe that the Martens believed Molly was being abused. Furthermore, that belief was exacerbated by the warning given to Tom by Mr Fitzpatrick, that Jason had murdered his first wife.

    So how do you manage this situation from4 hours away?

    You don't. A secret phone isn't going to get you there in time to save your daughter.

    So why did they leave their daughter in that situation? Why did the FBI director not avail himself of every tool under the law to keep his only daughter safe?

    Oh, because they didn't want to lose the children, says the Defense. So, by that theory, from 4 hours away, they risk their "abused" daughters life every day...her life is less important than custody? No phone call would get them there in time to "save" her. They would have to call police.Did they ever call police? Then what kind of "abuse" was this?

    The actions of the Martens family do not indicate that they were trying to "manage" their daughter's safety. But they might have tried to manage the swings of her mental illness. "Call us if Molly starts with the insomnia, if she goes days without sleeping." "Call us if she is weeping for hours in the bathtub, unable to function." "Call us if she goes off her medications."
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmalpage81 View Post
    Just considering the article in yesterday's mail (Stephan many thanks for getting that up yesterday). I note that a neighbour (not the one who was with them) suggested that JC, MM and another couple were outside the home. JC and the neighbour having a few beers after doing the lawn and the two women chatting and providing snacks. The children were playing on the green. He suggested this was between 5pm and 9pm.

    So when did the call to the parents occur? Before they went outside? MM collected the children from the sleepover at 11pm (ish) so did the argument or falling out which required her parents to be called occur after 9?

    All IMO
    Did the party break up when the parents arrived? I would imagine that was when the children left for their sleepover. I don't know about the rest of you, but among my circle of friends, ringing the doorbell at 11pm and collecting the kids is both rude and odd. I wonder what she said.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    Did the party break up when the parents arrived? I would imagine that was when the children left for their sleepover. I don't know about the rest of you, but among my circle of friends, ringing the doorbell at 11pm and collecting the kids is both rude and odd. I wonder what she said.
    But then doesn't that contradict his story that he brought this gift for JC but couldn't give it to him as they arrived at the house too late? If JC was out playing until 9 and they arrived sometime between 8-9 he would have had opportunity to hand this to him.

    Trying to work out the time of this call is really bugging me!

    I am going to assume that the couple they were socialising with are going to be called to give evidence. I am assuming the sleepover was with the same family.

    All IMO

  14. #89
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    Why would MM be passing around snacks, sitting outside with the neighbors...if she had to call her parents to drive 4 hours to save her from abuse?
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  15. #90
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    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by stephanddoody; 07-18-2017 at 07:53 AM.

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