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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be true View Post
    Don't understand law at all, wondering does this mean they have strong evidence, more evidence? and that's why they are dropping it?

    Sorry but I don't understand.

    Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk
    Pull up old threads if you can search, we went through this before.. from what i understand, with both, a conviction- bUT NOT A SENTENCE- was almost a sure thing, they just halved that opportunity.
    I dont know what the circumstances were and whether budgetary limitations affected their decision, or some other kind of a deal..
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    I'd like to hear an explanation as well. It may mean the prosecution feels especially confidant. But remember they need all twelve jurors to agree on a verdict of guilty. Lesser charges are often the way to compromise.

    I'd like to understand their strategy. But the prosecution cannot say much before trial. A NC prosecutor, Mike Nifong, was disbarred in 2007 in part for his public statements.
    Hopefully the guy who spoke from prosecution team, the reporter mentioned says more after end of day. She said he didn't have time to talk as they were going back in. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

    Thanks

    Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk

  3. #63
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    It shouldn't be budgetary. The trial will cost what it cost. Now it's all or nothing at all..or a hung jury.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  4. #64
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    Heres some links
    https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/is...-overdose/(its specific to drug od but its something)

    http://statelaws.findlaw.com/north-c...hter-laws.html
    No code has to be inserted here.
    Even if a person is charged with involuntary manslaughter in criminal court and is acquitted, the deceased’s family may file a wrongful death claim in civil court. Most wrongful death lawsuits follow in the wake of criminal trials, using similar evidence but with a lower standard of proof. Regardless, someone found liable for wrongful death may or may not be convicted of a crime associated with that death.
    North Carol
    https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/in...-quick-review/
    Element (3)(b) covers culpably negligent acts or omissions. I previously discussed criminal negligence in a post here. Briefly, criminal negligence means a carelessness or recklessness showing a thoughtless disregard of consequences or a heedless indifference to the safety and rights of others. By contrast, the malice required for second-degree murder includes commission of an inherently dangerous act in such a reckless and wanton manner as to manifest a mind utterly without regard for human life and social duty and deliberately bent on mischief. Thus, courts have stated that the difference between involuntary manslaughter and second-degree murder “is one of the degree of risk and recklessness involved.” State v. Ray, 149 N.C. App. 137, 148 (2002). Note that this element includes both acts and omissions. See, e.g., State v. Phillips, 328 N.C. 1, 19–20 (1991); N.C. Pattern Jury Instructions—Crim. 206.50, nn. 1–2.
    For involuntary manslaughter, as with all homicides, the defendant’s act must proximately cause the victim’s death. State v. Bruton, 344 N.C. 381, 393 (1996). A proximate cause is a cause without which the victim’s death would not have occurred; it need not have been the only cause, nor the last or nearest cause of death. Foreseeability is an essential part of proximate cause for involuntary manslaughter. See State v. Cole, 343 N.C. 399, 416 (1996); State v. Fisher, __ N.C. App. __ (Aug. 6, 2013). However, foreseeability doesn’t require that the defendant must have foreseen the exact injury incurred; rather, it means that “in the exercise of reasonable care, the defendant might have foreseen that some injury would result from his or her act or omission, or that consequences of a generally injurious nature might have been expected.” Cole, 343 N.C. at 416 (quotation and citation omitted); Fisher, __ N.C. App. __, slip op. at 16-17.
    Now that the basics are o
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  5. #65
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    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL.../Article_6.pdf
    accordance with Part 2A of Article 81B of Chapter 15A of the General Statutes.(b) A murder other than described in subsection (a) of this section or in G.S. 14-23.2shall be deemed second degree murder. Any person who commits second degree murder shall bepunished as a Class B1 felon, except that a person who commits second degree murder shall bepunished as a Class B2 felon in either of the following circumstances1) The malice necessary to prove second degree murder is based on an inherentlydangerous act or omission, done in such a reckless and wanton manner as tomanifest a mind utterly without regard for human life and social duty anddeliberately bent on mischief.(2) The murder is one that was proximately caused by the unlawful distribution ofopium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation ofopium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90-90(1)d., ormethamphetamine, and the ingestion of such substance caused the death of theuser.(c) For the purposes of this section, it sh
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  6. #66
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    It may be that manslaughter is a "lesser and included" charge to 2nd degree murder...and the option remains,

    "In criminal jury trials, the court is permitted (but not required) to instruct jurors that they can find the defendant guilty of the most serious crime charged, or of a lesser included offense of that crime (in English law, this is termed an alternative verdict).

    In murder cases, however, where a convicted defendant may face capital punishment, the United States Supreme Court has held that the court must instruct the jury that they may find the defendant guilty of a lesser included offense such as voluntary manslaughter.[1] The reasoning for this ruling is that jurors, given the options of convicting a less culpable killer or letting him go free, might opt to convict of a more serious crime than the facts warrant. Therefore, they must have at least one option that falls in between these extremes.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  7. #67
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    Look I'm going to be positive and I believe the prosecution is confident in the evidence that they have . It is what it is we can't do anything about it . I doubt he would risk losing the case if he wasn't confident

  8. #68
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    I think it's a "lesser and included charge" ...in which case nothing has changed. The judge will instruct the jury that they have options.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be true View Post
    Don't understand law at all, wondering does this mean they have strong evidence, more evidence? and that's why they are dropping it?

    Sorry but I don't understand.

    Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk
    My opinion only, but I think Thomas Martens is going to take credit for the whole thing. He's going to stand proud and say it was justified. Tell his story and let the jury decide. It doesn't sound like the excessive force will be an issue with dropping voluntary manslaughter.
    You convict on hearsay evidence alone, you increase your sins...African proverb

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by searchinGirl View Post
    My opinion only, but I think Thomas Martens is going to take credit for the whole thing. He's going to stand proud and say it was justified. Tell his story and let the jury decide. It doesn't sound like the excessive force will be an issue with dropping voluntary manslaughter.
    He's going to have a few problems. He will have to explain why, after the bat, he began slamming him with the brick. That's where this incident...even with his explanation....changes from self-defense to murder. And if Molly was hitting Jason with a brick when he was standing upright, she wasn't being choked.

    Changing weapons is tough to explain.
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittythehare View Post
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL.../Article_6.pdf
    accordance with Part 2A of Article 81B of Chapter 15A of the General Statutes.(b) A murder other than described in subsection (a) of this section or in G.S. 14-23.2shall be deemed second degree murder. Any person who commits second degree murder shall bepunished as a Class B1 felon, except that a person who commits second degree murder shall bepunished as a Class B2 felon in either of the following circumstances1) The malice necessary to prove second degree murder is based on an inherentlydangerous act or omission, done in such a reckless and wanton manner as tomanifest a mind utterly without regard for human life and social duty anddeliberately bent on mischief.(2) The murder is one that was proximately caused by the unlawful distribution ofopium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation ofopium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90-90(1)d., ormethamphetamine, and the ingestion of such substance caused the death of theuser.(c) For the purposes of this section, it sh
    Thanks Kitty for links.

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...-defenses.html

    Just looking at this link too. It may be useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    He's going to have a few problems. He will have to explain why, after the bat, he began slamming him with the brick. That's where this incident...even with his explanation....changes from self-defense to murder. And if Molly was hitting Jason with a brick when he was standing upright, she wasn't being choked.

    Changing weapons is tough to explain.

    Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be true View Post
    Don't understand law at all, wondering does this mean they have strong evidence, more evidence? and that's why they are dropping it?

    Sorry but I don't understand.

    Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk
    Apparently the ADA didn't have time to explain why the charges were dropped...does this mean they have suddenly uncovered some new damning evidence?

  13. #73
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    Here's some things for us to remember. Every American court that the Martens have faced in person...has decided against them. The children were sent home to Ireland. Shipwash ruled repeatedly against MM.

    The American investigators rejected their story. An American grand jury indicted them.

    To know them, to see and hear them in person...is not to "love them." Even here in their own country"s legal system. They have been disbelieved over and over.

    The grand jury handed down two charges. I think the DA just combined them with the lesser and included option.

    Have faith. ❤️
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

  14. #74
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    I wouldnt worry so much with what is happening in the media regarding the articles about JC's first wife's death and the rumor that maybe her father thought that JC was responsible. Media needs to sell papers and until proven innocent they portray all sides. The children will never go back to MM because the biological father (JC) never expressed his desire for MM to adopt the children. That part is finished. MM can petition the court all she wants but the children are citizens from another country and she will loose on every effort. She will have to go to Ireland to petition their courts to get access to the children. Good luck with that Molly because she will loose. In regards to the murder trial, it will be a wild ride but I think they will be found guilty, JMO Have faith in our system. It might sound and look dire now but justice will happen.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregonmama View Post
    I wouldnt worry so much with what is happening in the media regarding the articles about JC's first wife's death and the rumor that maybe her father thought that JC was responsible. Media needs to sell papers and until proven innocent they portray all sides. The children will never go back to MM because the biological father (JC) never expressed his desire for MM to adopt the children. That part is finished. MM can petition the court all she wants but the children are citizens from another country and she will loose on every effort. She will have to go to Ireland to petition their courts to get access to the children. Good luck with that Molly because she will loose. In regards to the murder trial, it will be a wild ride but I think they will be found guilty, JMO Have faith in our system. It might sound and look dire now but justice will happen.
    Great post, Oregon Mama. So glad to hear from supporters from our beautiful West Coast!
    Everything I post here...is just my humble opinion. 😎

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