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  1. #1
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    Mar 2005
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    Problem with the 911 call

    Something that happened during the 911 call recently made me wonder. About halfway through the call, the following exchange took place between Patsy and the dispatcher:

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: What?
    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: No I donít know itís there...there is a ransom note here.
    911: Itís a ransom note.
    PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please
    One would assume that Patsy read "S.B.T.C. Victory" right off the ransom note and had it while she was on the phone. However, there is a problem with this assumption. In numerous interviews (see the depos and interviews over at acandyrose), both Patsy and John talked about how while Patsy was calling 911, John was on the floor reading the note which was spread out on the floor. Therefore, my question becomes, how did Patsy get S.B.T.C. Victory from the ransom note? Here are the explanations I can think of, and my thoughts following each...

    (1) She remembered what the note said...Patsy has also suggested that prior to making the 911 call, she did not read the ransom note carefully and did not read it in its entirety. I can't imagine she would have remembered this.

    (2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

    (3) John wasn't actually on the floor reading the note at this time...This seems to be the most innocent explanation, but why would the Ramseys make up this somewhat odd detail if it weren't true?

    (4) Patsy was well aware of the note's detailed contents because she either wrote it or had seen it for much longer than she suggested in her interviews...to me, this explanation is the most logical.

    Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    Something that happened during the 911 call recently made me wonder. About halfway through the call, the following exchange took place between Patsy and the dispatcher:



    One would assume that Patsy read "S.B.T.C. Victory" right off the ransom note and had it while she was on the phone. However, there is a problem with this assumption. In numerous interviews (see the depos and interviews over at acandyrose), both Patsy and John talked about how while Patsy was calling 911, John was on the floor reading the note which was spread out on the floor. Therefore, my question becomes, how did Patsy get S.B.T.C. Victory from the ransom note? Here are the explanations I can think of, and my thoughts following each...

    (1) She remembered what the note said...Patsy has also suggested that prior to making the 911 call, she did not read the ransom note carefully and did not read it in its entirety. I can't imagine she would have remembered this.

    (2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

    (3) John wasn't actually on the floor reading the note at this time...This seems to be the most innocent explanation, but why would the Ramseys make up this somewhat odd detail if it weren't true?

    (4) Patsy was well aware of the note's detailed contents because she either wrote it or had seen it for much longer than she suggested in her interviews...to me, this explanation is the most logical.

    Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?

    Voice of Reason,

    In the interviews Patsy said she made the 911 call while hovering over John while John had the note spread out on the floor reading it.

  3. #3
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    Yes, Voice, it has struck many as odd. (Not conclusively incriminating, perhaps, but odd.)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Voice of Reason,

    In the interviews Patsy said she made the 911 call while hovering over John while John had the note spread out on the floor reading it.
    Where do you read this? If you look at the floor plans, you will see that while they were certainly close with Patsy at the kitchen phone and John in the hallway by the den, I don't think she was reading over his shoulder. Neither JR nor PR has ever suggested that this was the case to my knowledge...

    1997 interviews:

    TT: Patsy called 911 (inaudible).
    JR: Yeah. It was, I remember she was on the phone, I was, I think that was when I was looking at the note again, which was on the floor and I was in the back hallway.

    * * *

    TT: Letís move back downstairs, Patsy makes the 911 call, she talk through that on the kitchen phone?
    JR: Uh-hum.
    TT: Which is right around the corner from the floor that you talk about where you were reading the note?
    JR: Right Uh-huh.

    * * *

    TT: Okay. You yelled for John. John comes down. Okay, what happened, where did John read the note at when he read it?
    PR: Downstairs.
    TT: Okay. Where, where was . . .
    PR: Down, down in the, you know, on, not, not in the laundry room area, but down. I said thereís a note down there.
    TT: Okay. Down towards the butlerís kitchen in that area?
    PR: No, not all the way down there. On the wooden floor . . .
    TT: Okay.
    PR: . . .right there by the TV room.
    TT: Okay um. . .
    PR: He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched over the note and had it laid out there on the floor cause thee was a light. It was still kind of darkish and there was a light, hallway light on . . .
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: . . .he was, you know, reading it there.

    * * *

    TT: Okay. Where, where were you at when you called 911 cause I know thereís . .
    PR: Kitchen.

    * * *

    TT: Okay. Okay. So you are in there making the 911 call. Johnís out in the hallway reading the note, um . . .
    PR: Well, I mean we were real, the phoneís right here and he was right there.
    TT: Right.
    PR: I mean itís just . . .
    TT: Right around the corner. Okay.

    * * *

    PR: Well I remember I, I remember myself being of the phone and he was crouched down on the floor there in the hallway looking, reading at the note.
    ST: Okay.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    Where do you read this? If you look at the floor plans, you will see that while they were certainly close with Patsy at the kitchen phone and John in the hallway by the den, I don't think she was reading over his shoulder. Neither JR nor PR has ever suggested that this was the case to my knowledge...

    Voice of Reason,

    The phone cord easily reached the spot on the floor where John, in his underwear, was supposedly on his hands and knees reading the ransom note. Patsy has stated somewhere (I can't find it right now) that she read the note over John's shoulder during the 911 call.

    Of course, the enhanced 911 call with Burke's voice on it revealed the Ramseys were already lying about the whereabouts of Burke at 5:52 AM. Therefore, the credibility of everything else the Ramseys say that took place that morning is under question.

    BlueCrab

  6. #6
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    1,399
    That's not the only thing they lied about...and if this was an intruder, why would they need to lie at all?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    Something that happened during the 911 call recently made me wonder. About halfway through the call, the following exchange took place between Patsy and the dispatcher:

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: What?
    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: No I donít know itís there...there is a ransom note here.
    911: Itís a ransom note.
    PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please


    One would assume that Patsy read "S.B.T.C. Victory" right off the ransom note and had it while she was on the phone. However, there is a problem with this assumption. In numerous interviews (see the depos and interviews over at acandyrose), both Patsy and John talked about how while Patsy was calling 911, John was on the floor reading the note which was spread out on the floor. Therefore, my question becomes, how did Patsy get S.B.T.C. Victory from the ransom note? Here are the explanations I can think of, and my thoughts following each...

    (1) She remembered what the note said...Patsy has also suggested that prior to making the 911 call, she did not read the ransom note carefully and did not read it in its entirety. I can't imagine she would have remembered this.

    (2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

    (3) John wasn't actually on the floor reading the note at this time...This seems to be the most innocent explanation, but why would the Ramseys make up this somewhat odd detail if it weren't true?

    (4) Patsy was well aware of the note's detailed contents because she either wrote it or had seen it for much longer than she suggested in her interviews...to me, this explanation is the most logical.

    Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by odd, Voice of Reason. The way it strikes me is there is nothing at all odd about it at all. Patsy's behaviour is precisely that of a person who is perpetrating a giant deception IMO. There are not too many people who can do this, but some people are able to and become very skilled at it.

    IMO your explanation (4) is the correct one ie Patsy knows that JonBenet has not been kidnapped and she knows exactly what is in the note because she wrote it. And now she is pretending that she has just found the note and is pretending she thinks it was written by an intruder who has kidnapped JonBenet. It is quite obvious to me that Patsy is lying the whole time. When a person is lying they have to be very careful not to give themselves away with anything they say and Patsy uses all the tricks available to help her through.

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: What?

    Here she pretends not to have heard the question and gets the dispatcher to repeat it. This gives her more time to think up an answer.

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: No I donít know itís there...there is a ransom note here.

    When she does answer, she doesn't address the question. "No I donít know itís there" What kind of answer is that what does the "it's" refer to? It could be anything. I think this is called giving yourself some wiggle room with your answer.

    Then she continues "...there is a ransom note here" She has already told the dispatcher this, she doesn't need to say it again, but she does because it is safer than saying something different. If she said something different there is more chance she might inadvertantly give away some information that might incriminate her.

    911: Itís a ransom note.
    PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please

    Although the dispatcher tries to calm Patsy down so that she will be able to pass on some useful information, Patsy makes sure she keeps up the pretence of being the panicked and out-of-her-mind crazed mother. This way she can avoid having to make up a logical explanation for things. She knows the safest way to get away with the whole deception is to reveal as little as she can, so if she is forced to say something she makes sure she comes out with something nonsensical.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by odd, Voice of Reason. The way it strikes me is there is nothing at all odd about it at all. Patsy's behaviour is precisely that of a person who is perpetrating a giant deception IMO. There are not too many people who can do this, but some people are able to and become very skilled at it.

    IMO your explanation (4) is the correct one ie Patsy knows that JonBenet has not been kidnapped and she knows exactly what is in the note because she wrote it. And now she is pretending that she has just found the note and is pretending she thinks it was written by an intruder who has kidnapped JonBenet. It is quite obvious to me that Patsy is lying the whole time. When a person is lying they have to be very careful not to give themselves away with anything they say and Patsy uses all the tricks available to help her through.

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: What?

    Here she pretends not to have heard the question and gets the dispatcher to repeat it. This gives her more time to think up an answer.

    911: Does it say who took her?
    PR: No I don?t know it?s there...there is a ransom note here.

    When she does answer, she doesn't address the question. "No I don?t know it?s there" What kind of answer is that what does the "it's" refer to? It could be anything. I think this is called giving yourself some wiggle room with your answer.

    Then she continues "...there is a ransom note here" She has already told the dispatcher this, she doesn't need to say it again, but she does because it is safer than saying something different. If she said something different there is more chance she might inadvertantly give away some information that might incriminate her.

    911: It?s a ransom note.
    PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please

    Although the dispatcher tries to calm Patsy down so that she will be able to pass on some useful information, Patsy makes sure she keeps up the pretence of being the panicked and out-of-her-mind crazed mother. This way she can avoid having to make up a logical explanation for things. She knows the safest way to get away with the whole deception is to reveal as little as she can, so if she is forced to say something she makes sure she comes out with something nonsensical.


    And to make sure she doesn't accidentally reveal a clue to the truth, PATSY ABRUPTLY HANGS UP THE PHONE.

  9. #9
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    And calls her friends over who can vouch that JBR was alive the night before.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    (2) She asked John and/or looked at the note...The audio of the 911 call does not indicate that John told her what it said, nor does it sound like she retrieved this information from the note during the phone call. I could be wrong on that second one, but I would think you might hear a pause, a rustling of paper(s), or John asking her what she is doing while he is trying to read the note.

    Has this ever struck anyone else as odd?
    Voice of Reason,

    No not really odd. IMO its all consistent with a then, recent change of plan. Patsy has from memory 3 or 4 different versions of what happened when she arose that morning. All were recounted post the 911 call.

    So why should her memory have lapses and lacunae if everything had been planned in advance? Although we may not expect her to relate a consistent sequence of events, without some kind of error or mistake, we would expect her general outline to hang together, and as you suggest here we are at Step One, and already uncertainty and doubt is on display.

    Now you could interpret this in many ways e.g. Patsy deferring to John, or a verbal smokescreen to limit evidential leakage etc. Also it could reveal that a recent change in plans has scrambled her brains, and she is having to repeatedly relate steps or events that never really happened with those that did, whilst simultaneously avoid mentioning anything to do with whatever preconcieved plan that was intended to explain away whatever did occur?

    A consequence of this interpretation is that John was aware at this point in time of precisely what Patsy's intention was on the phone, e.g. to communicate to the listener that their daughter is abducted and we have a ransom note!

    So the 911 call is another example of how aware the Ramsey's were to avoiding contributing towards the forensic evidence. Neither of their fingerprints are to be found on the Ransom Note, since the intruder helpfully spread it out for them to read, and as you remark John is silent!

    Given the circumstances you would expect her to ask John who it is signed off by? After all he is reading it. Curiously Patsy's reply 'PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please' is not in the singular e.g. S.B.T.C. which you may expect, as in all my souces relating to the Ransom Note, it is actually signed off:

    Victory!
    S.B.T.C.

    and as BlueCrab intimates:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    The phone cord easily reached the spot on the floor where John, in his underwear, was supposedly on his hands and knees reading the ransom note. Patsy has stated somewhere (I can't find it right now) that she read the note over John's shoulder during the 911 call.
    So in spite of reading directly she transposes the words!


    In my mind these verbal 911 oddities reinforce my belief that there were multiple stagings that night, and that the phone call was public Step No. 1, in the final version.

    In this version there were a few things, lets say out of character, possibly understood, if its all for real. Firstly as has been mentioned many times before Patsy breaks her cardinal rule and redresses in clothing worn the night before, and she makes the 911 call, I would have expected John to make the call, CEO and all that.


  11. #11
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    Jun 2005
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    I wonder why when Patsy seen the part where it says " We have your daughter"
    she thought that they meant Beth?
    Beth is not her daughter and Beth been dead for 4 years......
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.



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